no boys allowed in the room!!!!

Oh yeah, Mirena! I had one before and it stopped my period, which I didn't like (because I was young and stupid), but maybe that's the way to go now.

That's a great idea. I need to see the gyn anyway and now I have actual motivation to make an appointment.

Oof I just read (skimmed, because that's the best I could do) that note and just1n3 OTmfM.

David Pajo, men's rights hero. jesus.

I don't know that guy from adam but read the letter and dude is clearly a trainwreck and I'm sorry his wife and kids are sucked into said trainwreck.

i love(d) pajo and previously apologized for even reading the note, and i do feel bad that i did. but once you read it how can those things go unsaid? esp as someone who is a survivor of that kind of abuse, including suicidal threats and actions aimed at fucking up your lover's mind, i felt really compelled to comment on that, and am def being lambasted for it. lot of conflicting feelings.

same ^^ only i haven't commented
it happened to me twice

I would not feel bad about reading the note that he published on his public blog, other than to feel bad because I felt like I was caught up in his manipulations as well.

I like(d) pajo but I have so little patience for that kind of shit, even as I'm also incredibly sympathetic to people who are suicidal. Like I'm not one of those people who get angry at how "selfish" suicidal people are or whatever. I just get sad that the person was living in such pain. But there's a point where you're intentional inflicting that pain on people you love and that I have no sympathy for.

so yeah, conflicted, only less so.

I'm sorry you're catching shit for your opinions, rox. They are totally valid, and your experience is totally valid.

Whoah. I didn't know there was a thing that was going on (I hid ILM from sna). Just checked it out and I have no sympathy particles in my sympathy waist pouch at all.

There are times I wish it was possible to do, like, a mediated review of someone's terribleness and then give their victims permission to just stop caring about them. Go with God, my child--you are absolved. Guilt-free. Go be happy.

thanks guys, i'm glad i vented here.

well I do feel that fucked up ppl are fucked up and that fucked up is not a great place to be for anyone no matter what. dude is fucked up and I do feel badly for him because his is not a good place to be.

not trying to flame on chixors thread, just my take.

I feel that way until the fucked up person starts intentionally hurting other people. Like, having a mental illness may be a reason for that kind of behavior, but it's not an excuse, IMO.

I have no sympathy particles in my sympathy waist pouch at all.

Totally imagining in orbit as a little RPG character with her bag of holding and a status bar underneath her showing insufficient sympathy particals.

I'm so glad carl and this thread understand me. :DDDDD It's good to be known.

the part that made me upset was when he said that what's best for the kids should trump all else in her life.

I've been where he's been (minus the kids) in terms of betrayal and despondency. I might have slapped my ex once. If not him, then another guy who did a similar thing to me when I was in college. My reading of the letter is that he only hit her once after the affair was discovered, but still, is that even ok? Is it worth speculating on the amount of force used and at which point is it "abusive"? It's like the debate about whether it's okay to spank your kids. It's not worth having again.

TOTALLY AGREE dude pulled 150% awfulness.

Kind of just feeling a Hindenburg "OH THE HUMANITY" think except of course especially awful for wife and kids b/c women/children/nonrockstar status vs ohcooldudewithaudience power.

I think before even addressing the domestic violence pov, at the very least your suicide note shouldn't be your revenge tool. Once you're there (and full speed ahead too), that's the end of my interest in the matter. I've tried to keep friends alive; I might have even succeeded once or twice. I've also straight walked away from people with the knowledge that I could 100% turn off my sense of responsibility for their welfare because of their actions.

One of the nicest things about not being young anymore is that my boundaries are a lot better.

at the very least your suicide note shouldn't be your revenge tool.

it's not that great a tool though, presumably you are dead afterwards, and the other person gets to live and get over you.

BOY YEAH isn't that true??? It's fantastic. I'm also a lot better at being assertive as necessary.

io, have you watched the Stars series The White Queen? About Elizabeth Woodville, Anne Neville, and Margaret Beaufort and the War of the Roses? It's on Amazon Prime streaming if you have access to that. But it's AMAZING and full of awesome models for exerting a certain kind of female authority, even in the face of powerlessness, that is really inspiring. Also amazing costumes. Also the dude who plays King Richard III (lol spoiler?) is so cute omg.

xp

yeah the first time this happened to me i was 17 and i learned a lot
the second time was very different and not analogous outside of the threat of suicide
all of this was a very long time ago too

I was in my teens the first time I had a dude threaten suicide to try to get me to do something (not dump him I think) and before he said that, I was feeling really bad about it, like awful, and then he said that and it was like the door to my feelings area slammed shut and I was like, "Get the fuck out of my face forever."

i should just bow out of this discussion, as I feel like the odd one out in terms of my opinions and experiences.

i identify more with a suicidal person and victim of infidelity, and my experience of relationship abuse was 20 years ago and relatively minor

I don't mean to derail but if anybody involved in this heavy convo wants to take a moment:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/15/f0/45/15f045f26e10d60c81a4fb384700559c.jpg
https://40.media.tumblr.com/abecf5e908182c31ffbea6ec892bb2cd/tumblr_n26v3uYRlM1sfyn7co1_400.jpg
http://media.tumblr.com/ee77ecd41ef362ebe158ae554cfe1835/tumblr_inline_mtsnipnbKU1s1xn3j.jpg

He's Welsh. Where's Branwell?????

i should just bow out of this discussion, as I feel like the odd one out in terms of my opinions and experiences.

i identify more with a suicidal person and victim of infidelity, and my experience of relationship abuse was 20 years ago and relatively minor

― Mistah FAAB (sarahell), Friday, February 13, 2015 7:09 PM (11 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Well in my case this dude was very very much using a suicide threat as a tool of manipulation. He was no more suicidal than I was. and it is a common tool of abusive, manipulative people.

Pajo is more complex because that is a freaking manipulative letter but he was clearly also suicidal. But given the way things go for women on the internet these days, posting a public accusation like that is basically like calling down hellfire on his ex, and that's pretty inexcusable.

oh yeah there are lots of people threatening her and calling her slut on the comments of his instagram ad for the note

god that's horrible
i think the thing about it that made me the most sad (aside from the obvious) was his warped notion of love

Yeah and if she wasn't expecting that and hasn't taken steps to protect her identity, and especially if the MRA monsters get wind of this, they'll post her physical address and do god knows what else.

Here's a pretty upsetting rundown of the kinds of things they do, with a heaping helping of trigger warnings - http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2015/01/27/7-tactics-of-highly-effective-harassers-how-a-voice-for-mens-internet-hate-machine-works/

My reading of the letter is that he only hit her once

no care evar

xxxxp Oh dear he is rather adorably broody.

I only have eyes for Cillian Murphy at this moment in time though. The dirt, the blood, the wrinkles and smile lines he's developing--every. thing.

http://d1oi7t5trwfj5d.cloudfront.net/b4/1f/88f322d640acbc25ac3a86df701e/cillian-murphy-peaky-blinders.jpg

oh yeah there are lots of people threatening her and calling her slut on the comments of his instagram ad for the note

― jello my future biafriend (roxymuzak), Friday, February 13, 2015 11:15 AM (4 minutes ago)

oh lord, i hadn't thought about those implications -- what carl said upthread about the use of the internet. sorry for being so dense.

i still don't understand why people make things like this public.

Well sometimes they do it to "win" an emotional manipulation contest with someone they want to hurt very, very much, using such tools as angry stalker fanboys.

oh i loved cillian murphy when 28 days later came out. there was a silly 1p3 thread about this and i got hate mail from a random googler

I quit my job and married Cillian Murphy

Well sometimes they do it to "win" an emotional manipulation contest with someone they want to hurt very, very much, using such tools as angry stalker fanboys.

― Orson Wellies (in orbit), Friday, February 13, 2015 11:24 AM (1 minute ago)

no doubt. I just don't have that instinct/impulse -- the initial exposure would just be too humiliating for me -- i understand manipulation, and revenge, but i just find public humiliation utterly repellent

Hahahahahahahahahaha that is amazing

Sorry, sarahell! That wasn't meant to be didactic up there, I was more like being fatalistic about how horrible the internet and its angry, insecure male minions can be to women under these conditions.

cillian murphy is all yours ladies

here's a q - is there a deprogramming course for misogyny?

for internalized misogyny? or like to deprogram men

the former, not related to just men

not limited to men, i mean

or like a Patriarchal Damage Repair Course?

Take two bell hooks and call me in the morning.

I was thinking more of a guided thing, with space for the student to respond and reflect in a controlled atmosphere, with help. A lot of people don't deprogram themselves. I recently saw a thing advertised called a Self-Love Course that promised to help women (I think it was for women, it was in a link someone posted from everydayfeminist dot com or something like that) silence their toxic inner voices and I was wondering if a similar thing existed for people who need to shed emotional scar tissue caused by prolonged/internalized belief in harmful patriarchal values.

if you find something like that, let me know

I...don't know. I don't know if mainstream feminism has been really great in recent erm decades? at finding that...motivation of love? self-love and acceptance through study and contemplation or however you'd describe that.

Consciousness raising?

I usually call it "Listening to bell hooks interview Chimananda Ngozi Adichie while reading radical body acceptance blogs" but that's just what works for me.

this is it
http://everydayfeminism.com/everyday-self-love/?utm_source=website&utm_medium=ad&utm_content=ES-Course&utm_campaign=Home-ES-Ad

(lol i thought it was about a different kind of self-love at first but after reading the bullet points, it's more what you describe)

i'm talking about something like this course but not for self-esteem or body stuff or negative self-talk as much as the internalized beliefs we associate with patriarchal values. and with help or guidance because not everyone is an autodidact.

i don't seek this sort of assistance, i was just wondering if such a thing existed

Yeah idk. I think a lot of women don't realize they're programmed, or don't feel the need to undo it bc they're happy enough with where they are in life with those messages, so the market isn't as big as it could be bc a lot of the need is hidden. There are prob some women who seek out feminist therapists to do this kind of thing?

i think men and women both feel that way tbh