jenny mccarthy wants your kid to get measles: autism, vaccines, and stupid idiots

There was one kid in my school that had a nut allergy. We handled by just not giving Paul any nuts.

Yuppie gluten intolerance is different from celiac, which is a real autoimmune thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coeliac_disease

Parents with or with kids who have celiac hate people who go gluten free from some stupid fad reason.

josh can you look into whether any of those things is "on the rise" before saying so

like, "i keep hearing about this" isn't that

yeah celiac /= gluten-free, totally different. We have friends with two daughters who both have celiac and this Parents with or with kids who have celiac hate people who go gluten free from some stupid fad reason. is definitely otm. They always bring gluten-free stuff with them wherever they go

Mayo clinic says celiac is up 4x since 1950:

http://www.mayo.edu/research/discoverys-edge/celiac-disease-rise

Though this says 1% of the population has it, which seems crazily high; I don't think I know anyone, adult or child, who has it.

Whether peanut allergy incidence is rising is apparently somewhat of a fight zone.

Maybe not?

http://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S37/46/79G28/index.xml?section=topstories

Or maybe yes?

http://www.jacionline.org/article/S0091-6749%2810%2900575-0/abstract

The latter study shows pretty clearly that incidence self-reported peanut allergy is increasing, the question is what exactly that means.

why would celiacs hate ppl going gluten free when that likely greatly increases the number of dece gluten free options?

everyone hates poseurs

but seriously, I imagine it's irritation at having a real problem conflated with a fad, it makes it that much harder for them to be taken seriously, they have to continually explain that no they are not following some trendy diet, this is an actual medical issue they have to deal with for the rest of their lives etc.

anyway back on topic:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/storyline/wp/2015/01/30/mississippi-yes-mississippi-has-the-nations-best-child-vaccination-rate-heres-why/

A fair number of reported food allergies are probably better described as sensitivities or intolerance. Some people do claim to be allergic to things they'd rather just avoid for other reasons.

But anaphylaxis is a real thing, and it's not rare. Most cases of anaphylaxis do not produce anaphylactic shock (which is what can kill you).

The possibility of any given reaction triggering anaphylactic shock is unpredictable, even based on that person's own previous history of reactions to that antigen. Here's what one of my (paywalled for doctors) sources says about that:

Victims of fatal anaphylaxis may not be aware that they are allergic to the implicated allergen. In one series of 25 fatalities, the history of a previous reaction could be elicited from the patient's relatives or medical records in just one-third of cases. Even in patients with known past reactions, the severity of previous reactions cannot be relied upon to predict the severity of future reactions, a finding which has been noted in multiple series.

(A couple of references:
Lessons for management of anaphylaxis from a study of fatal reactions.
Pumphrey RS
Clin Exp Allergy. 2000;30(8):1144

Fatalities due to anaphylactic reactions to foods.
Bock SA, Muñoz-Furlong A, Sampson HA
J Allergy Clin Immunol. 2001;107(1):191.)

Anaphylactic reactions to allergens in food happen disproportionately in children and adolescents. Most exposures to food allergens come from foods prepared outside the child's home, including baked goods. Peanuts and tree nuts are the most likely culprits, with shellfish and milk less likely but still potential triggers.

Anaphylaxis is treatable, with epinephrine, which is found in EpiPens and similar injectors (antihistamines like Benadryl have little benefit and can waste valuable time). The problem is that anaphylactic shock can develop so rapidly that a single dose of epi may be insufficient to reverse it. Airway compromise can happen before EMS can arrive and intubate the patient.

Because anaphylaxis is unpredictable, inherently risky, and not necessarily treatable, strict avoidance of exposure is important. No medical authority that I'm aware of recommends banning an allergen from schools (in fact, they point out the need for staff to be trained and equipped to deal with potential exposures despite such bans being in place). But the safety protocols required (peanut-free tables, bans on sharing snacks, quick access to epinephrine and staff capable of managing medical emergencies, etc) are so demanding that it's no wonder that schools look to lower their risk (and potential legal culpability) by declaring themselves "nut-free".

***

I have an anaphylactic reaction to tree nuts (but not peanuts, they're legumes). As a kid, I had a number of reactions when people either were mistaken or lied about the ingredients in the food they were serving me. Our neighbor made a torte with pecans in the crust but forgot and said they were peanuts, an old family friend told me the candy corn had peanuts in it instead of cashews. A guy at an ice cream stand asked if I wanted nuts on my banana split, when I asked if they were peanuts said yes they were (they were 60% peanuts). An old lady in our church told me there were no nuts in her homemade shortbread, which had blended walnuts in it, because she thought I was a fussy eater. I never went into shock but had beestung lips, a raspy voice and an itchy throat more times than I can remember. I never carried an epi pen, went to ER a couple of times when my mom forced me, but realize now thanks to my medical training that I'm lucky I didn't end up in more trouble than I did.

Now I'm married to a woman who had to be admitted to ER during one of my shifts in med school with an anaphylactic reaction to a bug bite. Our first son had a major reaction to peanuts before he was 2. His mother makes sure he carries his epi pen everywhere, and we've never brought peanuts (one of my favorite foods) into the house again.

Allergies are usually more annoying than dangerous, but the danger is definitely there. Public health precautions around allergy are not too different than those around cardiac arrest (defibrillators in every airport now) and choking (posters of the Heimlich maneuver). The inconvenience involved in taking due precautions is not too different from that around airport safety (metal detectors and searches) or other hassles that hopefully reduce a low risk of a terrible event to almost none.

There's probably some degree of overreaction or hysteria (isn't there always) to the public understanding of allergies, but there's a real problem there, and it's one that should benefit from better awareness and management. Equating that situation to the emerging public health disaster caused by undervaccination is completely off base.

Mississippi example suggests there's a pretty simple way to legislate mandatory vaccinations for children

xp

Booming post, Plasmon.

Three cheers for Mississippi and West Virginia.

i have a severe peanut allergy, one that i don't know would result in my death at any point but i've had incidents where i accidentally ate something with peanut in it. went to a restaurant in L.A. and had a chocolate dessert where peanut was not noted on the menu and took a couple of bites before i realized what was in it. i also had a salad at our kid's preschool potluck at the beginning of the year and ate a kale salad with what must have been peanut dressing and that sort of ruined the rest of the party for me.

generally it makes things extremely uncomfortable for me for a couple of hours and nothing more, but i'm somewhat certain that this isn't the ceiling on my possible reaction. my wife likes peanut but we won't have it in the house. i was worried about our kid inheriting it from me but he was served a peanut butter and jelly sandwich at a friend's place while he was over there and was 100% okay so bullet dodged i guess (i was still pissed tho.) the shit's no joke!

Good Slate piece on understanding the anti-vaxxer mindset. Aims for sympathy but just ends up showing them to be selfish, paranoid and intellectually arrogant imo.

http://www.slate.com/articles/life/family/2015/02/anti_vaxxers_and_the_measles_outbreak_understanding_why_parents_don_t_vaccinate.html

My wife has a corn allergy and has a similar level of symptom to what you're talking about. We're also worried about not having yet hit the ceiling.

I had a reaction to what was probably pine nuts once. I itched all over and my face swole up. The doctor told me it would be very expensive to test for pine nut allergies and I would be better off just avoiding them. Yay, Kaiser.

anyway back on topic:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/storyline/wp/2015/01/30/mississippi-yes-mississippi-has-the-nations-best-child-vaccination-rate-heres-why/

― Οὖτις, Tuesday, February 3, 2015 7:01 PM (22 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

That's really informative. And comforting to know it's possible.

airport safety (metal detectors and searches) or other hassles that hopefully reduce a low risk of a terrible event to almost none.

looooolllllllll

conservative tabloid connects the dots between dem bigwigs and the anti-vaxx movement

http://freebeacon.com/issues/trial-lawyers-and-dem-donors-support-anti-vaccination-movement/

specifically this org: http://www.nvic.org/ which i'd never heard of (website making my blood boil atm)

lee fang found a RW bigwig who donated to the group as well: https://twitter.com/lhfang/status/562686580021030912

MS has a personal belief exemption bill pending in the state House and a dedicated band of tea partiers/libertarians/stupid people flogging it along. We'll see how it goes.

Yeah, sorry I didn't cite medical journals or whatever. When I claimed there was a rise, I was basing it on information from smart, informed friends dealing with these problems.Celiac creeping up much faster than nuts, for sure. I know one friend of my older one, a babysitter and the sitter's dad who all have it. And yeah, when they go to restaurants or parties or whatever and ask for gluten free, people roll their eyes. Apparently it gets old fast, as do ill informed people thinking gluten issues are not based in science, based on all the fad people.

https://twitter.com/youngvulgarian/status/562719029518159875

I wish I could get a shot that makes me artistic.

We have an equivalent of NVIC here in aus that used to call themselves AVN or Austraian Vaccination Network. As you can imagine, the misleading name suckered in a lot of on the fence/worried parents who'd read and fall for all their mercola-based bullshit.

Our govt legally forced them some time back to change their name. Glorious.

This article (This Is What It's Like To Be An Unvaccinated Child) and its attendant comments are about as straightforward as it gets: first-hand accounts of people who suffered various health problems because they went unvaccinated as children.

I can't remember, did this thread link to the Roald Dahl letter?

http://roalddahl.com/roald-dahl/timeline/1960s/november-1962

http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/rand-paul-was-long-time-member-of-group-that-promoted-autism#.swkyWx40eV

He just tweeted a pic of himself getting a vaccine; we'll see if he walks it back after yesterday's double down. What the heck, nobody's brought up his waffling re integration (on the Rachel Maddow Show) in quite a while.

About that alleged moment in 2008 when Obama seemed to give the anti-vac moment a little breathing room.

"A later analysis demonstrated that when Obama said, “this person included,” he was referring to the person who had asked a question, not himself"

Fuckin Vox, what is with them and their litany of "post whatever and apologise later that its wrong" BS?

haha I saw that clip didn't at all -- not for a sec -- think he was referring to himself. Is that the fucking flashpoint?

In writing I can see it being misleading yeah - though why would he use such odd 3rd person phrasing.

good lord, someone I know and otherwise respect just poo-pooed the vaccine/autism correlation by claiming 'everyone knows GMO's do this' and posting this up: http://www.anh-usa.org/half-of-all-children-will-be-autistic-by-2025-warns-senior-research-scientist-at-mit/

If in 2025 - 10 years! - half of the kids in America are autistic, I will be totally convinced of ... something.

There's probably <i>something</i> in the water/air/food, but vaccine adjunctives don't seem to be the culprit.

The Japanese eliminated mercury containing thimerosal in MMR vaccination by 1993, but it had little effect on the trend of autism diagnoses.
http://www.medicine.ox.ac.uk/bandolier/booth/vaccines/noMMR.jpg

ple of hours and nothing more, but i'm somewhat certain that this isn't the ceiling on my possible reaction. my wife likes peanut but we won't have it in the house. i was worried about our kid inheriting it from me but he was served a peanut butter and jelly sandwich at a friend's place while he was over there and was 100% okay so bullet dodged i guess (i was still pissed tho.) the shit's no joke!

We had the same worry about my daughter, but there seems to be little or no genetic element to it. She's free of it, and our allergist found some research showingeven identical twins only have very low correlation between nut allergies (less than 10%)

Autism = older fathers, but rich white people don't wanna hear that.

I don't know if "=" is the sign you're really looking for there, though there's some correlation

Seriously. Our bodies fall apart faster than many people realize. Fertility rates drop in women starting at around age 29 or so, then really plummet after 35, which must be a challenge for someone who has, say, gone to grad school and landed a good job and wants to start a family. God only knows what's going on in men as they start pushing 40, 50. Surely there must be studies correlating parent age and autism rates, right?

Also the idea that older fathers and autism are phenomenon somehow limited to white people is gross and erases some very real and very serious problems, ie http://www.npr.org/blogs/codeswitch/2014/08/23/342688183/for-parents-of-young-black-men-with-autism-extra-fear-about-police.

Real question: are older men really having more kids than they used to? Both sets of my (very catholic) great-grandparents were popping them out well into their 40s. Sure the age that people have their first kids are higher in the first world just not sure if overall the median age of parents has shifted much...

why would fertility have an effect on probability of autism specifically?

I dunno specifically, but this is the webmd overview:

Making a baby requires a healthy egg, but eggs become more scarce as you age. You're born with about a million eggs, but most of them never mature. By the time you reach puberty, you're down to half your original supply, and the number continues to fall each year. And not every egg that survives can make a baby. Even in your prime, about half of all eggs have chromosomal abnormalities, and the proportion of eggs with genetic problems increases as you age, explains Dr. David Adamson, president of the American Society for Reproductive Medicine. Eventually, you simply run out of viable eggs. "As of today, we have no way of changing that," he says. "It's the natural course of human life."

So I guess "even in your prime, about half of all eggs have chromosomal abnormalities, and the proportion of eggs with genetic problems increases as you age" is the link between all sorts of potential things and age.

My limited understanding of this is that there is less correlation with mother's age than father's for autism.

so i should freeze my sperm now, is what you're saying

tryin to terrify me this AM?

xp (not scared of the frozen sperm)