jenny mccarthy wants your kid to get measles: autism, vaccines, and stupid idiots

I am dying to have one of these rn:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/00/LD_Nutty_Bars.JPG

my... my god

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/thom-tillis-washing-hands-toilet

Wrapping up the Q&A, the moderator joked to Tillis, "I'm not sure I'm gonna shake your hand."

I have wondered if nut allergies were on the rise over the last 20 years or what cuz I don't remember any of this shit when I was a kid, but now that I'm involved in the school system it seems fairly common. My daughter's elementary school is not nut-free, but her preschool was. It wasn't a big deal, we just made her almond butter-and jelly sandwiches instead. More annoyingly, her preschool was also mustard-free - and mustard is in fucking EVERYTHING.

What on EARTH is mustard in?

sorry, not trying to be all like that, but I mean, I like to think of myself as the kind of guy who reads his ingredient labels.

mayonnaise, lunchmeats of all kinds (salami, etc.), crackers, bread, tomato sauce I could go on and on

(mustard seed incl in definition of mustard here)

http://splitsider.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/vaunnies_mustardayonnaise.jpg

ok, I don't think I've ever seen mustard in bread or crackers (but wondering now if it's just included under "spices"), but I can understand the other ones you listed.

xp lol

truly, the kingdom of god

Things we have had to be wary of (at least), if not had outright forbidden: peanuts, tree nuts, gluten (for celiacs), strawberries, mangos, mushrooms, milk (allergies, not just lactose intolerant). Per the anecdotes, I don't know a single adult with any serious food allergies (save maybe a scattered shellfish allergy here or there, which in a couple of cases have come and gone). Same with bee allergies. But there a bunch of kids I know with at least minor issues with some of the above, sometimes life-threatening issues. Sometimes multiple issues. And yeah we're not talking dozens of kids, just a few here and there. The only time it has been a real bummer is when I want Chinese food and certain friends can't come along. Also, gluten free is a real buzzkill, but the two parents I know with celiacs kid (which has also steadily been on the rise, fyi) never complain and always send along gluten free snacks, pizzas, treats and whatnot to parties or whatever.

I know three kids with type 1 diabetes, too, and that seems like another thing on the rise, mysteriously, especially in kids. And that shit is super serious 24/7. And don't get me started on how the drug companies fuck these poor kids and families over, making them pay more in this country than they do on other countries, and devising these stupid vertically integrated systems where if one component is changed, then everything has to be changed. And so on. I don't have any anti-vax friends, but when your kid is suddenly diagnosed with an incurable chronic illness, the conspiracies start to come out. It's in the food, it's in the environment ...

wasn't there a news story two weeks ago about gluten intolerance having no scientific basis?

The human body is becoming increasingly resistant to natural foods. How long until Twinkies and Yoo-Hoo wind up in the food pyramid?

There was one kid in my school that had a nut allergy. We handled by just not giving Paul any nuts.

Yuppie gluten intolerance is different from celiac, which is a real autoimmune thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coeliac_disease

Parents with or with kids who have celiac hate people who go gluten free from some stupid fad reason.

josh can you look into whether any of those things is "on the rise" before saying so

like, "i keep hearing about this" isn't that

yeah celiac /= gluten-free, totally different. We have friends with two daughters who both have celiac and this Parents with or with kids who have celiac hate people who go gluten free from some stupid fad reason. is definitely otm. They always bring gluten-free stuff with them wherever they go

Mayo clinic says celiac is up 4x since 1950:

http://www.mayo.edu/research/discoverys-edge/celiac-disease-rise

Though this says 1% of the population has it, which seems crazily high; I don't think I know anyone, adult or child, who has it.

Whether peanut allergy incidence is rising is apparently somewhat of a fight zone.

Maybe not?

http://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S37/46/79G28/index.xml?section=topstories

Or maybe yes?

http://www.jacionline.org/article/S0091-6749%2810%2900575-0/abstract

The latter study shows pretty clearly that incidence self-reported peanut allergy is increasing, the question is what exactly that means.

why would celiacs hate ppl going gluten free when that likely greatly increases the number of dece gluten free options?

everyone hates poseurs

but seriously, I imagine it's irritation at having a real problem conflated with a fad, it makes it that much harder for them to be taken seriously, they have to continually explain that no they are not following some trendy diet, this is an actual medical issue they have to deal with for the rest of their lives etc.

anyway back on topic:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/storyline/wp/2015/01/30/mississippi-yes-mississippi-has-the-nations-best-child-vaccination-rate-heres-why/

A fair number of reported food allergies are probably better described as sensitivities or intolerance. Some people do claim to be allergic to things they'd rather just avoid for other reasons.

But anaphylaxis is a real thing, and it's not rare. Most cases of anaphylaxis do not produce anaphylactic shock (which is what can kill you).

The possibility of any given reaction triggering anaphylactic shock is unpredictable, even based on that person's own previous history of reactions to that antigen. Here's what one of my (paywalled for doctors) sources says about that:

Victims of fatal anaphylaxis may not be aware that they are allergic to the implicated allergen. In one series of 25 fatalities, the history of a previous reaction could be elicited from the patient's relatives or medical records in just one-third of cases. Even in patients with known past reactions, the severity of previous reactions cannot be relied upon to predict the severity of future reactions, a finding which has been noted in multiple series.

(A couple of references:
Lessons for management of anaphylaxis from a study of fatal reactions.
Pumphrey RS
Clin Exp Allergy. 2000;30(8):1144

Fatalities due to anaphylactic reactions to foods.
Bock SA, Muñoz-Furlong A, Sampson HA
J Allergy Clin Immunol. 2001;107(1):191.)

Anaphylactic reactions to allergens in food happen disproportionately in children and adolescents. Most exposures to food allergens come from foods prepared outside the child's home, including baked goods. Peanuts and tree nuts are the most likely culprits, with shellfish and milk less likely but still potential triggers.

Anaphylaxis is treatable, with epinephrine, which is found in EpiPens and similar injectors (antihistamines like Benadryl have little benefit and can waste valuable time). The problem is that anaphylactic shock can develop so rapidly that a single dose of epi may be insufficient to reverse it. Airway compromise can happen before EMS can arrive and intubate the patient.

Because anaphylaxis is unpredictable, inherently risky, and not necessarily treatable, strict avoidance of exposure is important. No medical authority that I'm aware of recommends banning an allergen from schools (in fact, they point out the need for staff to be trained and equipped to deal with potential exposures despite such bans being in place). But the safety protocols required (peanut-free tables, bans on sharing snacks, quick access to epinephrine and staff capable of managing medical emergencies, etc) are so demanding that it's no wonder that schools look to lower their risk (and potential legal culpability) by declaring themselves "nut-free".

***

I have an anaphylactic reaction to tree nuts (but not peanuts, they're legumes). As a kid, I had a number of reactions when people either were mistaken or lied about the ingredients in the food they were serving me. Our neighbor made a torte with pecans in the crust but forgot and said they were peanuts, an old family friend told me the candy corn had peanuts in it instead of cashews. A guy at an ice cream stand asked if I wanted nuts on my banana split, when I asked if they were peanuts said yes they were (they were 60% peanuts). An old lady in our church told me there were no nuts in her homemade shortbread, which had blended walnuts in it, because she thought I was a fussy eater. I never went into shock but had beestung lips, a raspy voice and an itchy throat more times than I can remember. I never carried an epi pen, went to ER a couple of times when my mom forced me, but realize now thanks to my medical training that I'm lucky I didn't end up in more trouble than I did.

Now I'm married to a woman who had to be admitted to ER during one of my shifts in med school with an anaphylactic reaction to a bug bite. Our first son had a major reaction to peanuts before he was 2. His mother makes sure he carries his epi pen everywhere, and we've never brought peanuts (one of my favorite foods) into the house again.

Allergies are usually more annoying than dangerous, but the danger is definitely there. Public health precautions around allergy are not too different than those around cardiac arrest (defibrillators in every airport now) and choking (posters of the Heimlich maneuver). The inconvenience involved in taking due precautions is not too different from that around airport safety (metal detectors and searches) or other hassles that hopefully reduce a low risk of a terrible event to almost none.

There's probably some degree of overreaction or hysteria (isn't there always) to the public understanding of allergies, but there's a real problem there, and it's one that should benefit from better awareness and management. Equating that situation to the emerging public health disaster caused by undervaccination is completely off base.

Mississippi example suggests there's a pretty simple way to legislate mandatory vaccinations for children

xp

Booming post, Plasmon.

Three cheers for Mississippi and West Virginia.

i have a severe peanut allergy, one that i don't know would result in my death at any point but i've had incidents where i accidentally ate something with peanut in it. went to a restaurant in L.A. and had a chocolate dessert where peanut was not noted on the menu and took a couple of bites before i realized what was in it. i also had a salad at our kid's preschool potluck at the beginning of the year and ate a kale salad with what must have been peanut dressing and that sort of ruined the rest of the party for me.

generally it makes things extremely uncomfortable for me for a couple of hours and nothing more, but i'm somewhat certain that this isn't the ceiling on my possible reaction. my wife likes peanut but we won't have it in the house. i was worried about our kid inheriting it from me but he was served a peanut butter and jelly sandwich at a friend's place while he was over there and was 100% okay so bullet dodged i guess (i was still pissed tho.) the shit's no joke!

Good Slate piece on understanding the anti-vaxxer mindset. Aims for sympathy but just ends up showing them to be selfish, paranoid and intellectually arrogant imo.

http://www.slate.com/articles/life/family/2015/02/anti_vaxxers_and_the_measles_outbreak_understanding_why_parents_don_t_vaccinate.html

My wife has a corn allergy and has a similar level of symptom to what you're talking about. We're also worried about not having yet hit the ceiling.

I had a reaction to what was probably pine nuts once. I itched all over and my face swole up. The doctor told me it would be very expensive to test for pine nut allergies and I would be better off just avoiding them. Yay, Kaiser.

anyway back on topic:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/storyline/wp/2015/01/30/mississippi-yes-mississippi-has-the-nations-best-child-vaccination-rate-heres-why/

― Οὖτις, Tuesday, February 3, 2015 7:01 PM (22 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

That's really informative. And comforting to know it's possible.

airport safety (metal detectors and searches) or other hassles that hopefully reduce a low risk of a terrible event to almost none.

looooolllllllll

conservative tabloid connects the dots between dem bigwigs and the anti-vaxx movement

http://freebeacon.com/issues/trial-lawyers-and-dem-donors-support-anti-vaccination-movement/

specifically this org: http://www.nvic.org/ which i'd never heard of (website making my blood boil atm)

lee fang found a RW bigwig who donated to the group as well: https://twitter.com/lhfang/status/562686580021030912

MS has a personal belief exemption bill pending in the state House and a dedicated band of tea partiers/libertarians/stupid people flogging it along. We'll see how it goes.

Yeah, sorry I didn't cite medical journals or whatever. When I claimed there was a rise, I was basing it on information from smart, informed friends dealing with these problems.Celiac creeping up much faster than nuts, for sure. I know one friend of my older one, a babysitter and the sitter's dad who all have it. And yeah, when they go to restaurants or parties or whatever and ask for gluten free, people roll their eyes. Apparently it gets old fast, as do ill informed people thinking gluten issues are not based in science, based on all the fad people.

https://twitter.com/youngvulgarian/status/562719029518159875

I wish I could get a shot that makes me artistic.

We have an equivalent of NVIC here in aus that used to call themselves AVN or Austraian Vaccination Network. As you can imagine, the misleading name suckered in a lot of on the fence/worried parents who'd read and fall for all their mercola-based bullshit.

Our govt legally forced them some time back to change their name. Glorious.

This article (This Is What It's Like To Be An Unvaccinated Child) and its attendant comments are about as straightforward as it gets: first-hand accounts of people who suffered various health problems because they went unvaccinated as children.

I can't remember, did this thread link to the Roald Dahl letter?

http://roalddahl.com/roald-dahl/timeline/1960s/november-1962

http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/rand-paul-was-long-time-member-of-group-that-promoted-autism#.swkyWx40eV

He just tweeted a pic of himself getting a vaccine; we'll see if he walks it back after yesterday's double down. What the heck, nobody's brought up his waffling re integration (on the Rachel Maddow Show) in quite a while.

About that alleged moment in 2008 when Obama seemed to give the anti-vac moment a little breathing room.

"A later analysis demonstrated that when Obama said, “this person included,” he was referring to the person who had asked a question, not himself"

Fuckin Vox, what is with them and their litany of "post whatever and apologise later that its wrong" BS?

haha I saw that clip didn't at all -- not for a sec -- think he was referring to himself. Is that the fucking flashpoint?

In writing I can see it being misleading yeah - though why would he use such odd 3rd person phrasing.