R.E.M. trio albums POLL

Collapse Into Now might seem just as calculated, but it's a pretty nice exercise in late style, and does some quite interesting things with various REM tropes.

Yes, and given that it was a farewell, these can be all the more affecting.

Reveal's production ruins some lovely songs, not least Beat A Drum. Compare the piano demo to the cluttered sub-Brian Wilson confection on the album. Wilson always left space in his arrangements/productions, something REM and the useless Pat McCarthy (worst producer they could have had at this point and major reason Reveal and ATS sound so lifeless).

I definitely agree that Reveal is more than a little overproduced. I remember hearing it for the first time just after it was released and thinking "holy shit, this must be the slickest thing they've ever done". I wouldn't lay the blame solely with Pat McCarthy, however... if I recall, the way the production was laboured over on Up, Reveal and Around The Sun was very much the way that Michael Stipe and particularly Mike Mills wanted to work. Peter Buck preferred to work more spontaneously, like R.E.M. did on their earlier records.

lol i don't like collapse into now at all, though it's hard to say why. no one seems to be trying hard enough? whereas i made myself like around the sun in high school (couldn't endure the thought that my favorite band had made a bad record) and iirc it becomes vastly enriched when thought of as the most drained-of-life post 9/11 record probably ever. haven't heard it in years though. i really like "aftermath" still

Said it before, but post-Berry REM is very much the sound of a band playing to a click. I wonder if any of them were ever in the same room together.

― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, January 17, 2015 2:11 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Up, Reveal and Around The Sun sounded like they were layered up piece by piece. Accelerate and Collapse Into Now sound like a band performing all at the same time.

"Up" and on, it sounds like Buck and Mills recorded their demos in different countries to some drum machine, then dropped them off in the mail slot at the studio.

Accelerate was worked on as a band.

I think the production is appropriate on UP. It gives it kind of a dense, almost humid feel at times.

Probably said this in another thread (similar to The Cure threads, most of us are probably repeating our stances on the last half of their discography, I must have said UP is their best album several times) but there are more of those Reveal demos and Buck seemed to prefer the demo version of the album and said there was a possibility of that version being released.

I have a hard time imagining it being released any time soon, I think a lot of people would be quite cynical about it now. But a lot of fans really love the acoustic (I think that's what they called them? I don't remember them being called demos on the single b-sides) versions of "Beat A Drum" & "The Lifting".

"the lifting" was a demo and it was pretty unbelievably different from what ended up on reveal. demo didn't really have a chorus even

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwuRgvcPAL4

definitely better than the album version. I think I was especially disappointed by the album because these versions set my expectations quite high.

Is that the version you mean Brad?

They were both included on the bonus disc of In Time

yep

i kinda prefer "beat a drum" rich and overproduced but i like the og "lifting" a lot more these days

I still like things about Reveal, it's pretty good. It's one of the sunniest and warmest albums I've ever heard.

Never knew about this.

The February 2001 master of Reveal differed from the March 2001 master of the album, which ended up being the final version. Compared to the official, the differences of the Reveal Advance 2001 disc include:
Two tracks that never made it to the finished version: "Fascinating" and "Free Form Jazz Jam".
An alternative version of "Beat a Drum" called "All I Want".
A longer version of "Imitation of Life".
A version of "All the Way to Reno (You're Gonna Be a Star)" with an alternate ending, and simply titled "Reno".
Slightly different mixes and/or instrumental changes in "I've Been High" and "She Just Wants to Be".

Neither of the unreleased tracks or any of the alternative mixes have ever been released commercially. However, the band allowed the Murmurs.com fan community to offer downloads of "Fascinating", which had recently been covered by Fischerspooner.

voted for Drop Shadow

"The Lifting" is one of REM's great openers. The first three Reveal tracks are way better than the opening trio on Up actually. Can't stand the rest though.

oh yeah "i've been high" is the greatest, unfortunately it's probably the peak of the record (minus "beat a drum" which was for a short while my favorite r.e.m. song)

It is, seriously check out the unplugged version though

'I've Been High' is one of my least favourites on the record, fwiw. Looking at the tracklisting, the one I really find myself wanting to listen to is 'Saturn Return'.

well you'd be the first

Listening to it right now, in fact. Wonderful song, IMO.

the last third of Reveal is a condo complex in Cape Coral that was built, never lived in, and abandoned years ago.

"i'll take the rain" is such a by-the-numbers r.e.m. ballad that it feels emotionally vacant even as stipe struggles to inhabit it

sunken condos, as Donald Fagen said

that makes it sound more intriguing than it deserves xp

Oh, I love 'Summer Turns To High'.

Up is a really cool album! Favs are "suspicion", "diminished", and "falls to climb". Doesn't sound very dated, I can imagine it coming out right now.
Everything I've heard from the others didn't do anything for me. Wish they had kept making sleepy lounge songs with vibraphones and harmoniums

That song on accelerate where michael stipe makes fun of djs is really bad iirc

I like it.

"Saturn Return" is indeed great. Partly because it feels similar to the broodier parts of Up.

I don't generally care about an artist's interpretation of their own work but I think Stipe's "REVEAL equals druggy hypnotised summer" kinda put some sort of perspective on that record that made me appreciate it a little more. It's funny because when I think about "All the Way To Reno" and "She Just Wants To Be" I think I never, ever want to hear them but I don't mind them when they're on.

I think "All The Way To Reno" is great but I find myself mostly waiting through "She Just Wants To Be".

Having a listen to Reveal and Around The Sun this eve.

Reveal is much better than I remember, especially the first half, overall though it's dynamically *really* soft, the drums are mixed as to have no real impact, songs are all of a very similar tempo (I'm guessing that when you remotely create click or loop based demos you probably never naturally write anything strident or uptempo, it's a 100-120bpm all the way), it's a weird thing to hear an REM record sound so emphatically inoffensive.

Listening on headphones exposes some really wretched glitchy bookend treatments that sound cheap and misplaced, there's like a grasping towards the sound Beck was achieving around 'Mutations' but it comes off sounding like that trend that 90's loop/click based records have of just trowelling on little layers of sonic muck that is great fun to create in lieu of dealing with broader structural problems.

Unsurprisingly, Around The Sun is even more sonically milquetoast, it's translates like one long jangly guitar and pad chord that lasts for the entire record. Even potentially radical changes in dynamic come off as incremental, like cut bars and that jaunty Britpop rhythm in Wanderlust.

I'm at The Worst Joke Ever now, and from Wanderlust to this point has been especially forgettable.

Oh and The Outsiders! Holy balls!

xp I remember AOL streamed their Rock in Rio performance shortly before Reveal came out and that was the first time I heard "She Just Wants To Be" and I remember it being significantly faster and it got me really excited for the new record, and then I bought the album and that song sounded like it was in slow motion.

Oh wait, the last 2 mins of the title track (ATS) is kinda cool!

Yeah, I love the way that song ends. I remember at the time having a discussion with a friend about how they should call it quits, not because it was a bad record, but because that song had such a perfect "last song, last album" vibe to it.

"The Ascent of Man" was my favorite track on Around the Sun. It took me several years to admit that that was a bad record, like I couldn't come to terms with a band I loved so much for so long making something so lifeless and exhausted. But "Final Straw" at least makes me think they were in on the joke; Brad's comment earlier about it being a "drained-of-life post 9/11 record" otm.

Listening to Accelerate, so far so Pageant, I'm enjoying Man Sized Wreath's subtle nods to Back Of A Car.

"Man Sized Wreath" was the one song I liked on Accelerate. Reminded me how well he can sing.

Oh wait, the last 2 mins of the title track (ATS) is kinda cool!

― MaresNest, Saturday, 17 January 2015

That was one of my least favourite things about it. I thought the big ending really didn't suit them. I think REM just don't do epic. I suppose maybe "King Of Birds" and maybe "Fretless" could be considered epic.

I think "Leaving New York" and "High Speed Train" are good songs and there are good moments scattered across the album.

Finest Worksong and Turn You Inside Out are pretty epic I would say.

'Leave'?

I mostly meant that the end of "Around The Sun" has a big crescendo that is something like a brief attempt at that sort of epicness you get in post-rock and symphonic rock. And I don't think it worked for them. Maybe it isn't right to dismiss them ever taking that approach just because I don't think that song succeeded but I feel that it just isn't REM.

I am glad at least Turrican likes I'm Gonna DJ. I kinda love that song. It might be my favorite off Accelerate. It's between DJ or Supernatural Superserious, and I really like that album.

My favorites:

Up - Why Not Smile
Reveal - Beat a Drum
Around The Sun - I Wanted To Be Wrong
Accelerate - I'm Gonna DJ
Collapse Into Now - All The Best

To me it doesnt work because the song isnt memorable enough to warrant it.

Besides, in their heyday REM would have toned that side if it down especially if the tune didnt hold up

i remember feeling so dismayed by around the sun in high school. it's between up and reveal for me - i love the weird buoyancy of "lotus" but "imitation of life" and "all the way to reno" are still two of my favourite REM singles. (IIRC "reno" is my friend ari's favourite REM song period.)

"supernatural superserious" is a fun entry in the "michael stipe barks a bunch of syllables" canon

Im still not sure about Imitation - I think its catchy enough but at the same time the sound of a band trying very very hard to do and sound the way it once did almost effortlessly

Tell it to the Decemberists: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qR9DjdMrpHg

There's this part of "Man-Sized Wreath" that always sounds like they're about to break into a cover of "Celebration" by Kool and the Gang. I feel like 1984 R.E.M., playing this live, would actually have done it.

As for the poll, there's probably not a song they wrote after "Sad Professor" I think is as good as "Sad Professor," but in terms of my actual listening I think I rate both Accelerate and Collapse above the others. Maybe it's fanservice, but sometimes it's nice to be serviced.

The live in Hansa videos for Collapse are terrific. Their final live performance, so poignant but also celebratory. Rieflin sounds great and Stipe sings the shit out of Discover.

like everyone, this discussion has led me to revisit the albums in question. I still think Reveal and Around The Sun, are, well, terrible, but I'm not sure if Stipe the singer has ever sounded as good on record as he does on those two (vocally, Around The Sun in particular is a great performance).

album picks
Up-Hope, Why Not Smile
Reveal-All the way to Reno, Imitation of Life
Around The Sun-Around The Sun
Accelerate-Houston, Horse to Water
Collapse Into Now-All The Best, UBerlin

Reveal really does have some good songs, even if they're not the best recordings or arrangements or performances of those songs. I definitely gave it way more listens than the ones that followed, though I gradually started skipping over the long, I guess 'ballad' ones. MaresNest is totally right on about the consistency of the tempo. I think it works great on "Beat A Drum," "The Lifting," and a couple other things but it just doesn't feel like a record that was urgently made or urgently needed to be released. I quite like "Imitation of Life," but in memory it wasn't as much of a throwback to "Shiny Happy People" as it really is. Not a bad thing, since I like "Shiny Happy People" etc, and I dig Stipe's lyric, especially the opening line, but it does raise the specter of a band trying to hit a mark instead of doing what they want to be doing.

Up maybe involves some degree of trying to be "experimental," but mostly they seem like genuine experiments and the songwriting is there to back them up. One or two tracks should've-been-B-sides, but it's able to sustain much more of a 'feel' despite a greater variety in tempos and sounds. It also sounds, in hindsight, like a pretty reasonable step forward from where they had been as a band, with the long grinding, wails of Buck's Monster/NAIHF guitar sliding into the background as color and texture (Airportman, Apologist, Sad Professor, etc.). If NAIHF really would have been the best place to end it, Up would also have been a pretty satisfying, dignified final record, which I don't think can really be said of any of the others.

What do you think are the shoulda been bsides? Parakeet for sure