Cuba: Here we go again?

In his statement Obama claimed that Gross was released by the Cubans on "humanitarian grounds" and at least tried to imply that the appeals of Francis had some effect. The three Cuban agents were released in exchange for an unnamed American spy held there, who (if I heard this right) was responsible for nabbing the three agents in the first place.

Americans are pretty stupid about international stuff, but I find it hard for anyone other than the most hardened obama hater to think being nicer to cuba is an awful thing.

turn on FOX News now.

thot fox was the official news source of hardened obama haters worldwide

I need to get back there before Disney

Well, this will surely complicate the GOP's strenuous and sincere attempt to court Hispanics.

how so

he just secured the Cuban vote after 2012's promising first step.

I thought all the angry old cubans were the ones who wanted the embargo in the first place

or are they all dying off

sorry if I'm being obtuse, the intricacies of Cuban-American voting bloc politics sort of mystify me

We've been doing business with the Chinese Communist party for decades now, to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars. One must ask oneself, wtf is so special about Cuba that we can't do a dime's worth of business there?

the young ones and those who've benefited from the loosening of remittance limits and travel restrictions in the last five years

our next presidential aspirant, English collapsing:

"My understanding is that the influence that His Holiness had was on the release of Mr. [Alan] Gross, which I've not criticized. As I said, I'm happy that he's with the Cuban people [sic]. I would also ask His Holiness to take up the cause of freedom and democracy, which is critical for a free people — for a people to truly be free," Rubio, a Catholic whose parents immigrated from Cuba to flee the Castro regime, told reporters.

"I think the people of Cuba deserve the same chances to have democracy as the people of Argentina have had, where he comes from; as the people of Italy have, where he now lives. Obviously the Vatican's its own state, but very nearby," the senator and rumored 2016 presidential hopeful continued.

We've been doing business with the Chinese Communist party for decades now, to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars. One must ask oneself, wtf is so special about Cuba that we can't do a dime's worth of business there?

The Cuban exile community's once wizardly sway over Congress and the White House? It's not hard.

last sentence of Rubio's is really a beauty

plus, our history with Cuba is more tangled than any country not named England. Jefferson wanted it. Southern Congressman forty years later sought to make a slave state out of it. We got sugar, rum, the best beaches in the Caribbean, baseball players, cigars, Watergate burglars, and George W. Bush out of it.

Shit, we've even normalized relations with the butchers in Myanmar, fer chrissakes.

"...as the people of Italy have, where he now lives. Obviously the Vatican's its own state, but very nearby," the senator and rumored 2016 presidential hopeful continued.

lmao really putting the knife in. who's the writer here? I can't get that quote to come up on google

man, wait til the Pope announces he's moving the Vatican to Pinar del Rio

I hear the beaches are especially beautiful.

I believe it's where I saw a rooster mascot do what looked like a Santeria dance around home plate.

http://www.que.es/archivos/201111/4219565w-640x640x80.jpg

the young ones and those who've benefited from the loosening of remittance limits and travel restrictions in the last five years

― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, December 17, 2014

younger cubans really support liberalizing US-Cuban relations? not doubting it so much as observing how behind-the-times i must be.

oh yeah -- the older ones too. The women who clean my grandmother's and take care of her are my mom's age. Most people who came after Helms-Burton support normalizing relations.

plus, our history with Cuba is more tangled than any country not named England. Jefferson wanted it. Southern Congressman forty years later sought to make a slave state out of it. We got sugar, rum, the best beaches in the Caribbean, baseball players, cigars, Watergate burglars, and George W. Bush out of it.

― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, December 17, 2014 1:41 PM (43 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

That's real nice for Canada.

why didn't we recruit a burglar from Canada?

I'm glad I've been to Cuba multiple times before the Starbucks and whatnot. I wish there was a middle ground between people having basic freedoms and not being rampaged by lots of Wal Marts.

Can anyone link to anything genuinely interesting/informative about what Gross was actually doing there and whether there was actually any basis for his arrest?

seeing all this preemptive righteous anticommercialism is nauseating

Shepard Smith, who worked in Miami and Naples for years, is practically trembling with excitement. He also repeated the cliche regarding the definition of insanity -- that's how FOX can claim it's Fair and Balanced.

how soon till i can get some havana club on the reg?

haha. why's shep "trembling with excitement," e.g., the opportunity to pander to a well-known fox-leaning demographic?

http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2014/12/authorities_hope_thaw_in_cuban_relations_will_aid_capture_of_nj_cop_killer_joanne_chesimard.html

My thoughts on the matter.

Very happy, and poised for a comeback.

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100426143902/godfather/images/7/74/Vlcsnap-2010-02-25-19h21m17s23.png

My thoughts on the matter.

― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, December 17, 2014 9:09 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

that is a moving and smart piece of writing, Alfred.

"...as the people of Italy have, where he now lives. Obviously the Vatican's its own state, but very nearby," the senator and rumored 2016 presidential hopeful continued.

i imagine rubio continuing to ramble in this circumlocutions manner for minutes as the media and then his staffers leave one by one and finally a janitor comes by and turns the lights off. "…i mean, you know, the vatican isn't really a democracy either, but uh, pope francis should know, uh, I mean, that democracies are all around, and…"

that is a moving and smart piece of writing, Alfred.

― Vic Perry,

thanks, Vic!

My thoughts on the matter.

― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, December 17, 2014 9:09 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

that is a moving and smart piece of writing, Alfred.

― Vic Perry, Wednesday, December 17, 2014 11:35 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

agreed Alfred, enjoyed that post a lot

since the tourism ban can only be lifted by Congress, we can expect to see that go in...?

sadly we'll always have Congress, Morbs.

I would suggest you all become humanitarians or educators if you want to go, meantime.

Essay on TPM:

It happens pretty much every time I meet someone new and they find out I’m Cuban. Have you been? is usually their first question—generally just a way to attempt a polite transition to their own inevitable Cuba visit story. I brace myself for these stories, plaster a polite smile on my face, and try to change the subject as quickly as possible. Many of them come with a sentiment similar to Jeremy Scahill’s tweet yesterday—a kind of perverse, nostalgic desire to witness things “before they change.” I can’t keep track of the number of times someone has recounted this sentiment to me. Last year, it happened at a week-long training I was participating in, and it was the first time there was another Cuban-American present, with whom I could exchange a weary, knowing glance.

I’m sure there are hundreds (thousands?) of people right now trying to figure out if they can visit Cuba before the inevitable surge of change. Miss seeing the crumbling buildings? The fifties-era cars? The Castro government propaganda? I’ve never understood these sentiments. I find them to be so tone-deaf, like this place that has shaped my entire existence is just a type of disaster tourism, a fun stop on a political nostalgia to-do list. They’re sentiments that gloss over and negate all the suffering and loss that has shaped what Cuba is today.

It gets to the mixed reaction of someone my age hearing about deprivations secondhand yet recoiling from the unintentional crudeness from those who haven't witnessed either.

when I was in Russia right after the wall fell the biggest tourist draws were Soviet memorabilia/buildings etc

Maybe it was partly due to the structure of the group visit I went on, but I'd say you have to be pretty willful, sheltered and/or insensible to overlook the deprivation in Cuba.

I imagine something similar is going to happen here - aw communist dictatorship detritus, ain't it cuet

xp

This triggered her article:

jeremy scahill ✔ @jeremyscahill
Follow

I'm very glad I was able to visit Cuba several times before US tourists try to turn it into Cancun

tbf Cancun is p fucked up

I un-followed Scahill a few years ago after a photo he posted of himself and Fidel inspired commments like "WOW, YOU GO!" and "SO JEALOUS" and "YEAH EL JEFE!"

(I still read his books)

of course for Americans there's no middle ground really between Communist-regime-induced squalor and capitalist-induced-squalor + RESORT LIVING

And who is going to get involved in those decisions?

Cubans? Is it hard to imagine that Cubans would be able to build a democracy if given the chance?

"If given the chance" doing Sisyphean work there. If you believe the US wouldn't interfere (to the detriment of the Cuban people), you most likely also believe in Santa Claus.

If the western hemisphere's imperial hegemon can go five years without sponsoring a right-wing coup, we can start talking about states being "given a chance" at democracy and self-determination.

Because that govt indeed killed people, but I just don’t see how it relates to a hypothetical involving american politics. Also,a year of interim is pretty fast considering the pandemic situation that developped. Also, I don’t remember Anez making such a promise (but I might be wrong!). It remains that in 2020, the Bolivians chose a governement to their liking and that it worked, and I don’t understand why Cubans shouldn’t be allowed the same democratic exercice.

If anything the Bolivian experience should make a pretty good case that latin americans are able to stick to their principles and autonomy despite foreign interference or the existence of right wing politics.

wasbappin's blog never fails to deliver pic.twitter.com/5PDnPMPOID

— pez (@periuspb) July 24, 2021

Let’s keep the dictatorship for another 60 years because we couldn’t possibly risk the greatest threat of all … US influence.

Has this present US administration opposed the elections of Castillo and Cortizo?

I just find it kind of astonishing to say "I don't see a problem" given that there was a year of anti-democratic rule and brutal treatment of protesters, precipitated by a false narrative of a stolen election. I'm glad that the elections happened and that democracy still seems to function there, but I don't really see it as a reason to think that things will be just fine everywhere.

the greatest threat of all … US influence.

You're so close to getting it.

Morales was as much part of the anti-democratic situation as he clearly overstayed his welcome, and it’s no wonder MAS has clearly distanced itself from Morales since.

But yeah now it’s been many decades of anti-democratic rule, brutal treatment of protestors and false narratives for Cubans, but yes sure, it’s that status quo they want instead of … being able to do like Bolivians in reasserting their autonomy.

You're so close to getting it.

― Joe Bombin (milo z), Saturday, July 24, 2021 5:37 PM (nine minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

It will forever astonish me that people would choose Tiannemen Square over Lee Teng-hui, East Germany over West Germany, Soviet Estonia over Finland.

The guy who won the democratic election is as much a part of the anti-democratic situation as the unelected president from the party with single-digit support who presided over the deaths of dozens of protesters?

Despite the fact that he should have not been able to present himself in the first place? Yeah. Seems like abuse to me; which is why lots of left leaning group just abandonning him and decided to trust a OAS report with errors over anything and still to this day don’t care much for the dude.

It will forever astonish me that people would choose Tiannemen Square over Lee Teng-hui, East Germany over West Germany, Soviet Estonia over Finland.

Wouldn't a better analogy, one that's in this hemisphere and not eligible for social security be Colombia and Cuba, today?

Alright, so we just need to allow the Cuban people to have their voices heard, but when the Bolivian people vote to give a guy you don't like another term, it's totally fine to ignore their voices and depose him based on false information.

"Let’s keep the dictatorship for another 60 years because we couldn’t possibly risk the greatest threat of all … US influence."

Nobody is saying this. If the US care about Cubans they should lift the sanctions they've kept for decades and leave Cubans and their administration to it.

Wouldn't a better analogy, one that's in this hemisphere and not eligible for social security be Colombia and Cuba, today?

― Joe Bombin (milo z), Saturday, July 24, 2021 6:11 PM (forty-eight minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Colombia has a better health care system than both Cuba and the US per the WHO. Colombia’s social expenditure is also pretty good, higher than South Korea and about the same as Ireland. I don’t know what you are talking about.

...

I have no idea what milo z and xyyz want

I don't think it's necessary to want anything, aside from an end to the embargo (and American imperialism). Interventionists like VHS's fantasy of Cuban autonomy after their desired regime change is risible because of the dishonesty.

So now ‘untainted from any foreign influence’ is interventionism?

y'all enjoy going in circles?

cos it makes for really shitting reading

*shitty

So now ‘untainted from any foreign influence’ is interventionism?

No, it's just a fantasy. (Or, more accurately, dishonesty.)

I have no idea what milo z and xyyz want

― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 24 July 2021 bookmarkflaglink

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lD8Cz2HOlEc

Today, we are imposing further sanctions against the Cuban police following their attacks on protestors, including young people, religious leaders, and civil society organizations. We will continue to promote accountability for the Cuban regime’s human rights abuses.

— Secretary Antony Blinken (@SecBlinken) July 30, 2021

https://t.co/3e23O3AiCo pic.twitter.com/HglTVz123p

— by mennen (@ClassHuggle) August 1, 2021

Lmao we're so fucked https://t.co/VqL8BvRvNR

— Lisa and the banned one (@LisaA311) July 31, 2021

if it wasn’t for Fidel these whiteboys would be owning mansions in Havana rn, shouts out Fidel https://t.co/YvHU0KFBSZ pic.twitter.com/lBHyAnkbIF

— SLANK (@DabSquad_Slank) September 12, 2021