Rolling Music Theory Thread

Thanks, will check it out.

Modulates back, too.

That my axioms and my late beloved father's are anti-Rameau you can state quite openly.
-C. P. E. Bach in a letter to Kirnberger

*Revive*

For the seasonal analysis of Yuletide modalities.

Oh wait, think there is already a thread for that which is better left unrevived. Never mind.

The First Noel, "most likely from the 18th century"

"Unusual among English folk melodies in that it consists of one musical phrase repeated twice, followed by a refrain which is a variation on that phrase"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_First_Noel

Interesting.

Had not known this:

In 1855, English musician William H. Cummings adapted Felix Mendelssohn's secular music from Festgesang to fit the lyrics of "Hark! The Herald Angels Sing" written by Charles Wesley.

Just eight years after Mendelssohn's death. He was popular in England.

"One of Us Must Know (Sooner or Later)":

"And I told you as you clawed out my eyes/That I never really meant to do you any HAAAAAAAAA-a-arm"

That's the third scale degree he's singing over a IV chord.

You guys, "Different Worlds" by Maureen McGovern (theme song to the TV show Angie) has that same sequence of chords at the beginning of the verse as "Yesterday."

I - V/V/vi - V/vi - vi

The changes are the same, but the second chord is minor in both -- I ii/vi V/vi vi

Aha! Thanks, St3ve.

I like that you call it a two of six because that progression totally does suggest a two-five-one except that the last chord is minor.

Hm, yeah I wouldn't say ii V i progressions in minor keys are unusual though. See e.g. this page on the minor ii V i. In a jazz context you'd more often see a half-diminished7 on the ii chord (aka m7b5), but the regular m7 chord seen in these songs can be made by borrowing from the melodic minor scale.

But that's one of the cool things about that tune, the way it starts on the major tonic as you expect, then takes a surprising detour to what ends up being a very strong setup for the vi chord, which at least in Yesterday ends up kind of fighting for the spotlight through the whole song.

But hmm again, Alan W. Pollack calls the 2nd chord ii/vi but he says it's Edim. I always heard Em7 there.

In a jazz context you'd more often see a half-diminished7 on the ii chord (aka m7b5)
While you are at it, the V chord often has a b9.

Looks likes a minor chord here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjpzTys0s9g

Since this thread popped up, I have a classical music question that arose listening to a lot of Beethoven symphonies lately -- is there a standard name for the technique of rhythmic displacement he often uses where he will move a melody entirely to either accented upbeats or accented weak beats so that it feels almost like the pulse has momentarily shifted? I noticed this is the 1st movement of #4, for example.

Wish I knew.

I have been learning some classical guitar etudes with lots of open strings, sometimes in drop D, with some fretted notes, two notes, triads, seventh chord shapes, shapes that don't really parse at all. Most of the chords will come from D, say, or the modal mix of D, but some will just be really dissonant, for instance,just playing a triad a half step away from the one in the key. Wondering what if there any is the classical terminology for this kind of thing, tried some jazz terms, sideslipping, planing, modal, nonfunctional, but nothing quite feels right.

Examples?

Do you want youtubes? Sheet music?

If they are well-known or easily-available pieces, references to scores would be be easiest (e.g. mm. x-y in ....). Otherwise, if you could link the score or Youtube, I could take a look.

You guys, what is the second chord in the verse of this song? It has a flat seventh in it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bmhuqOpV5g

Flat seven scale degree, I mean.

sounds to me (roughly) like Bmaj7-Amaj7-C#m7-F#7

so a bVIImaj7?

Oh excellent, I think you are right. Just playing an A major chord didn't sound right.

It just sounds like a major chord a wholestep down from the root to me, but maybe there's a maj6 in there, there's definitely something giving it a little extra texture

OK, I've been playing it with the sixth and I like that best. I don't know if that's what the guy is playing on the record, but it sounds good.

It occurred to me that the note the vocalist is holding over the second chord is the maj6 of that chord, so that's probably why it sounds right, whether or not the guitar is playing that note

Man, I love the chorus of Selena Gomez's "The Heart Wants What It Wants." Starts with a melodic line over the VI chord, same line over the iv chord, then it has this three-note descending line over the i chord followed by this awesome, sequential three-note descending line over the III chord where the last two notes are not chord tones (and the last fall is a p4).

Thread of remembering last year's Easter break music theory throwdown

lol

this is convincingly Lydian-sounding, though i suppose it's probably better described as a change of key/level

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmcsA6D8a1E

"Sugar and Spice" by the Cryan' Shames modulates down a whole step towards the end of the song instead of going up a whole or half.

Just now came across an interesting roundup review of three recent Jazz Theory books here: http://jjs.libraries.rutgers.edu/index.php/jjs/article/download/89/74

I posted a few things here about a month ago: an old published article on a Smith Brindle guitar piece and two recent conference presentations on 20s blues songs.

Replace "4" with "a" in the URL as always.

Cool!

First chord of "Starman" seems to be what I think of as a Flamenco chord, Bflat chord under an E, Bb Lydian some might call it.

No seventh through.

I'm hearing A with that chord and not E.

Bb Maj 7? Or a whole different chord?

I heard it as what would be a B flat barre chord with an open E instead of an F on top. But my ear is lousy, who knows. Will check again come the morn.

OK, I am hearing that high E. It seems like there's a lower A in there somewhere, too.

Hm. Maybe certainly there is an A in the chord when it goes to F. And the "telegraph" lick is an A.

This guy is playing it like me, but
This other guy puts the A in the bass like you do.

Wrote on the Strawberry Alarm Clock's "Pretty Song from Psych-Out." Basic idea was to see how many key centers it has and I end up saying seven. Such a great song!

http://thisiheard.blogspot.com

re starman: it sounds almost like a b-flat major triad and an a-minor triad being played at the same time? May be two guitars or a very oddly tuned guitar.

Possible.

Feel like it goes to F, maybe you are hearing the top three notes of Fmaj7, unless there is not F in the bass, just the A minor triad. Perhaps the Bb chord is struck and still ringing when the other chord is played.

What is third chord of "Little Red Corvette"? Seems like it definitely changes from verse to chorus. Both start F# G#. Then for chorus third chord is a Bbm, but on verse it is some kind of Bbm9 ( no third)- like an Fmin triad first inversion over a Bb.