Trans/Genderqueer/Agender/Questioning Thread

And, no, I don't think that the point of Binnie's essay was that straightforward, but I am not going to argue it any more.

love this photo gallery
http://www.advocate.com/politics/transgender/2015/02/24/photos-transgender-elders-show-us-meaning-survival

the former Bruce Jenner is a privileged attention whore/idiot who does not need to be 'supported'.

responding to ghost posters

I don't think I need to tell you where the flag post is.

No interest in her personal story or w/e but it's kind of a watershed moment for trans people + a huge step in making the USA in particular a safer place for transpeople, no?

don't be an asshole, bill.

always

i dig that jenner's celebrity / wealth / glamour makes her seem more untouchable and inexplicable than her gender ever could, but fgti basically otm.

I was talking to my 90 year old mom a few days ago and one way or another Orlando by Woolf came up in the conversation. As the subject meandered on from there I discovered that she was unaware of the name Christine Jorgensen, or the fact of sex reassignment surgery. So, she may be in a small minority, but the availability of such surgery is not universal knowledge and some publicity about it is not useless to those who may never have heard of it before.

for someone who already had a long career as a public figure to make this transition is a pretty huge cultural moment, imho. that said i wish that there was less attention & importance placed on the surgical aspect of her transition in terms of the media / the public accepting & recognizing her gender.

an actual trans athletc hero:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ren%C3%A9e_Richards

but hey, every era gets the symbol it desrves i guess.

They look a lot alike! is my stupid contribution.

Fwiw I mostly agree with dr. Morbs re "privelaged attention whore" status. I mean, she certainly is that but something more interesting and progressive may result.

Or may not.

In other words that was a non post. But attention whoring has many levels and degrees.

can we be grown ups and stop using 'attention whore' it is the pits

We can also be grown up and say "attention whore" if it is apt. I mean on ILX anyway.

at the very least, i support C over K

i mean i dont think it is ever apt to use sry, least of all for someone who has undergone the most high profile transition in the US

xp

That's ok. Personally I find an aspect of that in this situation and will not use that phrase.

But will not use that phrase, rather.

morbs largely otm

m bison

attention bore

*takes your nerf ball and throws it over the fence where the mean dog lives*

i got renee richards' autograph when i was a kid

who has undergone the most high profile transition in the US

yes, riches always determine importance

I agree with Dr Morbs also overall but there's something about "the former Bruce Jenner" rather than Caitlyn Jenner or even just Bruce Jenner on its own that's unsavoiry.

considering a whole hell of a lot of ppl do not (think they) know a trans person, i think it's important. caitlyn's not going to snap her fingers and all transphobia will vanish, but it's a big deal! i guess i don't understand why that's a small thing for you.

well i grew up with him as Bruce, the World's Greatest Athlete who then plunged downward to the Village People Movie, so sue me. xp

THEY DON'T KNOW THIS ONE EITHER.

"the former Bruce Jenner" is enough to tell Morbs to fuck right off, without any other explanation needed.

I don't agree.

who has undergone the most high profile transition in the US

yes, riches always determine importance

― the increasing costive borborygmi (Dr Morbius), Thursday, June 4, 2015 3:39 AM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I think that's what's sad about it and why Morbs is right. Or, at least, why I agree with him to some extent.

Fuck it I don't know what to think.

i'll fuck right off then, em -- enjoy the Reality Show Politics of Everything

Fwiw I think your stance is legit and that you should not fuck off.

Unless you want to and that's also legit and I totally respect your rights to fuck off it may also be an important moment in fucking off on ILX and may have repercussions globally.

My overall feeling is who gives a fuck about Caitlyn jenner?

& that reality show bullshit is something we should all resist.

ilx, where we disown a moment of high-profile representation for a marginalized group because it's just a bit too gauche by 2004 standards

I hadn't heard of bruce jenner til maybe 2013 don't really have a good idea of the popular view I've seen photos online same with kardashians although I don't know that I've seen a video or heard any of them utter a word although not out of any deliberate avoidance or distaste or anything but I guess it's probably not really for me and I find it difficult imagine the reality of their various programmes and so on. I think ok you're caitlyn no prob. I also think it's fine for the most high profile transition in the US to be a person reviled by some for their perceived courting of publicity and superficiality of the persona they project or whatever. must be possible to celebrate the event so to speak without celebrating the person if you think you really don't like the person for some reason without refusing to call them by their chosen name or gender or suggesting an entirely cynical root to their having transitioned etc.

no i disagree morbs you should definitely fuck right off a cliff for reviving this thread to do nothing more than promote your cantankerous hobbyhorse opinions

Apologies myself for being cantankerous.

it's possible to lead into / ask for more thought on / raise a valid point a subject, like trans visibility, without using abusive language.

but where would one find the motivation to do so without the internalized codependence "whore" offers to so many previously or not-so-previously religious gay men.

http://vihart.com/vi-hart-weekly-june-5th/

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/07/opinion/sunday/what-makes-a-woman.html?smid=tw-share&_r=0

Meat on the bones on Morbs' POV..

yes, some standard terf bs for morbs to nod along to

wow @ people whose hatred for celebrity culture is so strong that it overrides basic humanity, or perhaps just exposes their lack of it

caitlyn jenner's fame and career do not negate her story, and desiring to tell it is not attention-seeking, whatever you even mean by that

w/r/t that terrible nyt article, surely i will read nothing worse than the trans-as-blackface analogy this year

this has occasioned a lot of TERF-lite thought pieces from femenists who seemingly didn't start thinking about trans people until about a month ago

For the most part I've been willing to let cis people talk amongst themselves through the whole Caitlyn Jenner mediastorm, but that ridiculous NYT op-ed reminds me that it's kind of perversely fascinating to see how little transmisogynist talking points have evolved (socialization is destiny, except when anatomy is! trans people invade women's spaces and shut down feminist discourse! gendered and racialized modes of oppression function in just the same way!) since the 70s heyday of Janice Raymond, Mary Daly, and their ilk.

As for Caitlyn's transition, it isn't particularly relevant to my life and I consider a number of aspects of its media coverage to be regressive or sensationalistic, but I'm not interested in policing Jenner's body or the way she articulates her identity even if I don't agree with her politics. I'm suspicious of the assumption that increased media visibility (especially within the frame of celebrity culture) readily translates into more livable material conditions for most trans people (as Red Durkin recently said, "Cis conservatives are measuring success in anti-trans laws passed, cis liberals are measuring it in magazine covers"), but that's mostly a reason to look to grassroots organizations (like SRLP or the Audre Lorde Project) and activists as agents of change. Janet Mock's recent note on Caitlyn Jenner is useful, I think, in talking about some of the broader political issues involved (http://janetmock.com/2015/06/03/caitlyn-jenner-vanity-fair-transgender/), as is Scott Long's essay on the limits of modes of politics centered around visibility and recognition (http://paper-bird.net/2015/05/04/icons/).

On a more frivolous note, my favorite comment on that NYT essay so far is probably merritt kopas's: "ppl who haven't lived their entire lives as women & died as women & returned from the grave as she-wraiths shouldn't get to define womanhood."