Serial - the podcast *spoilers*

ive always been under the impression that SK started with the intent of covering this story in a single episode of TAL and then later decided on the Serial format/project

From what SK says in the new episode, it sounds like that guy on reddit really is Hae's brother

no new episode until dec! gonna be a long lonely walk to work next thurs

weird episode, kind a grab bag of loose ends strung together with adnan in prison tales

successfully swung things back toward reasonable doubt for Adnan

but still - if you accept A's innocence, what the fuck is Jay's motive for making all this up?

https://twitter.com/cheerios/status/535503401736359936

my cheerios consumption is often multi-episodic

deleted, wot did it say?

it was a really dumb pun/spoof on the Serial logo that said CEREAL, and something about "its easy to solve crime when you're not hungry" or something

All three of these people think Adnan did it:

http://www.avclub.com/article/introducing-serial-serial-v-clubs-new-podcast-abou-211881

Ugh these people are so dumb.

Finally listened to the first ep, and a thing that slightly irks me about the setup is that it's pretty much down to two possibilities right away: he did it, or Jay for some reason made up a very elaborate lie. And the second option in turn doesn't present a lot of possibilities either: Jay did it himself, he's covering up for someone else who did it, he's a psycopath who wanted to get Adnan for some reason, he's just a psycopath period. I thought starting with tracking down the library alibi was sort of a weird thing to start with, I'd start with "WHY THE FUCK WOULD JAY SAY THAT IF IT'S NOT TRUE?" Whereas the library alibi is almost certain not to be a slam dunk no matter what she finds out.

So I hope the show gets to that before this Ep 8 "The Deal With Jay" or else I'm just gonna have to skip ahead.

Ep 8 (or 9) don't answer that either fwiw

before ep 8 there's an episode where they drive around town to try to recreate jay's narrative of the events that kinda directly deals w/ the veracity of his account and that's def a trend throughout, but jay himself doesn't speak until ep 8.

Like I will probably listen to it anyway because the characters are interesting, but it's hard for me to pretend there's this big complicated multi-dimensional mystery going on when there is really ONE BIG QUESTION that needs to be answered.

Woodlawn is kinda straddling the city/county line.

The trippiest thing for me about this story is that I grew up in Baltimore County and knew people in Woodlawn, plus a lot of the landmarks are familiar. Some of the referenced businesses are places where I shopped, so I'm like "was I served by characters in this story at some point?"

― RAP GAME SHANI DAVIS (Raymond Cummings), Thursday, November 20, 2014 9:05 AM (8 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I don't remember if there was a phone booth at Best Buy. BUT...

(Bmore people help me here) Was there a phone booth on the main road leading to Best Buy, near the bus stop, near McDonald's? In my memory there was.

― RAP GAME SHANI DAVIS (Raymond Cummings), Thursday, November 20, 2014 9:21 AM (8 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

whoa there detective hurting, maybe let a few episodes pass meanwhile, appreciate the journey

"characters"

Yeah, it's totally about the journey here, and frankly it makes you ask yourself some pretty heavy questions about perspective, memory, what "the truth" really is.

seems like basically a story about how the police pushed a guy to testify to a false sequence of events but nonetheless got the right person convicted

the thing is, i just don't feel like either jay or adnan have any kind of motive for Hae's murder, unless one of them is a psychopath.

the phone booth thing is really fuckin weird - like, if it never existed, jay took an awfully big gamble by stating adnan called him from it, how could he possibly know it wouldn't be checked out? is it possible that adnan had a second phone that he called jay from, and that bc jay didn't know about it he just assumed adnan must have called him from a phone booth, since adnan specified he was right there?

this has a much more salient critique of Serial than I've seen elsewhere

http://gawker.com/what-serial-gets-wrong-1660778617?utm_campaign=socialflow_gawker_twitter&utm_source=gawker_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

ehh the whole thing about how SK isn't questioning the police's questionable actions doesn't seem right - imo she's questioned it quite a bit. i also think it's possible that she's going to get around to the cultural/political climate of baltimore, and how that impacted the case, in a later episode.

There are now two competing podcasts that recap Serial now? Is this the first time podcasts about podcasts have sprung up? I know there is a This American Life parody podcast, but can't think of any others.

a guy i work with was named in the credits this last episode i need to get his autograph

Have listened to these over and over the last few days. Jay mostly told what the cops got him to say in the pre-interviews, right?

They probay got him to say that Adnan was planning the murder, so they could make 1st degree stick

There are now two competing podcasts that recap Serial now? Is this the first time podcasts about podcasts have sprung up?

The Wolf Den.

found listening to this quite strange. couldn't concentrate on it while working or reading twitter. found it a bit creepy having to turn everything off so i could sit and truly focus on the real story of this murder.

anyway, adnam did it

It seems obvious to me that Jay's account of a premeditated murder is false. And why would the state be so interested in a murder one conviction? I wonder if the stuff about Adnand's threats toward Jay is true and it's Jay who wants to pin the murder one so that Adnand's gone for life. Maybe he made his cooperation as a witness contingent on this point.

The state always wants to be able to charge high (murder one) so that they can get a plea deal on something lower (murder two). Having Jay ready to say that Adnan was planning the murder would be an incentive for Adnan to confess to a crime of passion.

It's always adnam

Got through all 9 and still kind of frustrated by this show -- I rme a little when the PI she hired told her to stop focusing on all the "Adnan's friend thought he seemed ___ that day" stuff because it's total bs, because I have been feeling that way all along. Meanwhile, nine episodes in, very little examination of why Jay might be lying if he is, or what alternate explanations of the crime there might be if Adnan wasn't involved. Hard to tell how much of that is just the podcast deliberately stringing the listener along in order to create a good serialized story and how much of it is being unsure what leads to follow. But it does bother me that she has no background in crime reporting or investigation and it shows. It's one thing to examine the slippery nature of truth, it's another to fumble around in the dark when a better trained person might get to the bottom more quickly.

the thing is, i just don't feel like either jay or adnan have any kind of motive for Hae's murder, unless one of them is a psychopath.

The motive for Adnan would be jealousy. The evidence against that is just a bunch of people saying he didn't *seem* like he was broken up about it. But there's also been evidence that the relationship was much more intense than his cool, casual vibe would have let on. I agree it's a little hard to believe. So far the show has left me with nothing else, so it still seems like the most likely explanation. I don't really get why the show still hasn't looked more closely at Don, or at other people who might be links between Jay and Hae, or at any other possibilities (though Jay has to get tied in somehow in order to have a reason to make up all this shit about Adnan).

one theory i saw on reddit was that hae had caught jay cheating and was going to tell steph. i actually find that somewhat more believable than adnan killing her, esp bc jay says it was premeditated and not a fit of rage.

why the show still hasn't looked more closely at Don

there's an interview - entertainment weekly, maybe? - in which one of the producers waves this aside just by saying don's alibi's watertight, that he was at work, fwiw. i forget if it came up in the show.

sk mentions that a manager at lenscrafters confirmed don was working that day.

reddit kickstarter to torture the branch manager into full disclosure

one theory i saw on reddit was that hae had caught jay cheating and was going to tell steph.

isn't this the dumb theory Adnan's lawyer was trying to use when she's yelling at Jay about "stepping out"?

Has she looked into whether Don has an identical twin? I'm clutching at straws here.

There are some details in these accounts that SK has nt really explored--probably because she isn't in the proving-Adnan-is-guilty business.

First, the person who made the 911 call said that Hae broke up with her boyfriend about a week before she went missing. We know that she broke up withAdnan way before that--so either the caller meant Don, or Hae had still been secretly seeing Adnan and finally broke it off for good.

Also one of the stories from the Jay episode was that Adnan confronted Hae about flirting with some guy and then strangled her in anger. Presumably the guy was not Don. Perhaps had told Adnan she was about to dump Don and Adnan thought she might be coming back to him, only to freak out when he heard she was flirting with new guys?

All of these also give Don a motive

First, the person who made the 911 call said that Hae broke up with her boyfriend about a week before she went missing. We know that she broke up withAdnan way before that--so either the caller meant Don, or Hae had still been secretly seeing Adnan and finally broke it off for good.

or the caller is not an infallible source

Well it was the pope tbf

Adnan did it in a fugue state.

Jay and Adnan were really just working for a ring of Maryland politicians, ministers and other luminaries who wore animal masks and engaged in ritual murder in cars in the Best Buy parking lot.

I really agree with Hurting's point from upthread - there's tons of weeds to get lost in with this story but the big over-riding question now is why the fuck should we believe Jay would make up a big elaborate story to frame Adnan? A story that makes him an accessory to a murder. And if the answer is he lied because killed Hae, why the fuck would Jay kill Hae?

I don't think I could convict Adnan if I were on a jury and the podcast through ep 9 was the sum of the case, but I also still feel like Adnan did it is the most likely explanation, with inconsistencies in Jay's story probably coming down to him minimizing his own role/flaws in his memory. Everyone in this story seems to smoke weed all the time, so that would explain a lot too.

yeah, it does not seem like a leap at all to accept that Adnan probably should not have been convicted based on what we know of the case against him... and to believe he seems like he had the most likely motive, the opportunity to commit the crime, and a semi-reliable witness saying he did it. Not enough to put someone away for life, but not nothing.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/24/business/media/serial-podcastings-first-breakout-hit-sets-stage-for-more.html?rref=collection%2Fcolumn%2Fthe-media-equation&contentCollection=business&action=click&module=NextInCollection®ion=Footer&pgtype=article

I don't really get the guilty-but-shouldn't-have-been-convicted- argument. Lack of every single nail being hammered down in a case doesn't really add up to reasonable doubt. It would overturn nearly every conviction that went to a jury, as there are always details that don't fit. If I were on a jury and I thought a guy had murdered someone, I don't think "Some stoner chick doesn't remember seeing a pay phone when she was shoplifting from Best Buy 15 years ago," would cause me to vote not guilty.

Someone on Reddit (yes i know) presented this (completely fictional) scenario, which helped me be able to accept the proposed "infidelity" motivation for Jay, or the way the situation could have escalated very fast:

Hae approaches Adnan's car, realizes Jay is driving.

HAE: If you don't tell Stephanie that you cheated, I will.

JAY: If you do, I'll tell your parents you've been lying to them for years and having sex.

HAE: Then I'll just go to the police and tell them you're a dealer.