Marvel Comics blabbery

Thank you BG and DJP for the DPool recs, have passed them on

I never followed Marvel in the Liefeld era and Deadpool feels a bit like a private joke I don't get

Or at least I kind of associate him with Robert Kirkman-style comics with no heart and lots of lovingly detailed gruey body stuff

Is that wrong? Or is that right, but the comics are still ok?

Pretty much every Deadpool thing I've read has been hot garbage, but I haven't read much/any of the Deadpool runs that are considered "classic" so my opinion should be taken with a grain of salt.

Half of Joe Kelly's run was spent making fun of Liefeld's nonsense and the other half was spent making fun of the rest of the Marvel Universe

It'll be interesting to see how all the currently Hickman/Avengers/8 months later countdown stuff reads when collected. There are enough intertwined story bits right now that reading it monthly is kind of rewarding. All the stuff he introduced at the beginning of his run has been kept in play and is now starting to flush out!

I can't really think of many other writers/comics events that have juggled different teams and events while keeping all the balls in the air

i find hickman exhausting and unpleasant to read. I'd like to request a moratorium on full page every issue recaps and black page / white text "NOW" dividers.

I used to be on the fence! It's a time investment and it definitely doesn't work for everyone, but pondering how certain characters would react to events, to each other, with the different players and personalities in play and doing it over months instead of pages is something I think he's gotten better at.

his SHIELD series stuff really fell flat for me originally but Secret Warriors was where I got on board with his Marvel work and went back to read the FF/Ultimate FF stuff

i like how bendis has basically just carried over his avengers plotlines/characters to the x-books he's writing now.

can't get on w/ hickman at all.

nice thing about Marvel right now is they have two completely different events with the same set of characters and don't seem to care at all. not sure how I feel about Axis, but it's somewhat interesting

which is fine with me. having strong continuity across the entire line just means you don't get to do what you want with characters

Jason Aaron's Thor is still pretty great!

so far Axis can bite me

Remender has been absolute shit since X-Force. But I wasn't into his pre-X-Force stuff so I'm thinking it's the anomaly and not what I hoped was an upturn in quality.

Don't get me started on "hey guys, we made Falcon into Captain America and then for his first trip out decided he should be EEEEEEEEVIL"

I will cosign x-force tho'

oh his X-Force was great

is Mighty Avengers part of the Axis bullshit or no

Unfortunately yes

Don't really know what thread to ask this on, might as well try this one.

My housemate, and occasional comic reader, was really into Moon Knight as a kid and I thought it might be fun to get him a MK trade for xmas. Are there any good runs from the last decade or so which have been collected?

People have been speaking very highly about the recent Warren Ellis run, but I haven't read it. It's collected in a single cheap trade. There's also the recent but higher-priced Epic Collection featuring the earliest stories (basically the same stuff that's in the first Essential Moon Knight but in color).

The new Ellis run is excellent, I'll cosign that as worth buying for sure.

yeah it pretty much ruled

Cheers, seems like that'll be the one.

xp -- Agreed.

The Bendis/Maleev series (12 issues, 2011-2012) wasn't so great. Scene-setting for Age of Ultron, killed off the character Echo. It did look good, though (I'm a big Maleev fan).

I think I read that and blocked out them killing Echo :/

I liked when she showed up to help in Japan as Ronin and it took until the very end for anyone to realize Ronin didn't catch what you were saying unless you had eye contact, even though there were clues

Didn't realize Echo was dead. Thanks for spoiling a story from three years ago, jeez.

Eh, she disappeared for years at a time anyway

They reprinted the first Moon Knight series also in Marvel Essentials, which you might still be able to find. It's one of those series that really looks just as good in black and white especially Sienkiewicz's artwork.

So, thanks to the success of the Guardians of the Galaxy movie, Marvel has been reprinting Abnett & Lanning's GotG and various related titles (Annihilation Conquest, War of Kings, Realm of Kings, etc), which is nice, because I missed buying them in physical format when they first came out, I was poor back then and read them on the computer. Anyway, the second big GotG collection just came out, and rereading stuff has been tremendously fun and thrilling, I still feel these are among the best comics Marvel has put out in the last decade. (Too bad A&L exited the cosmic Marvel comics, and GotG is now being written by Bendis, in his trademark mediocre style.) They haven't reprinted Abnett & Lanning's Nova though, which is sad, because I remember it being almost as good and thrill-powered as GotG (even if the whole Nova Corps concept is a pretty shameless Green Lantern ripoff). Hopefully the sequel movie will expand the Nova stuff seen in the first movie and introduce Richard Rider, so they'd have an excuse to reprint that run too.

Yeah, the lack of Nova re-reprints is just Marvel being Marvel. The two books were pretty intimately linked and tied into no fewer than four crossovers. If they're smart, they'll put out a couple of Cosmic Marvel omnibi after the upcoming Annihilation: Conquest omnibus and collect this material in a way that makes sense.

FYI, Abnett is currently writing a new Guardians title featuring the OG team.

Ah, okay, I didn't know that! Does "OG team" mean the original seventies Guardians?

Yeah, as far as I know. I haven't read it yet but that's how it's been solicited.

the hype! this event will live up to it! really!

I'm gonna wind up spending so much money that I don't really need to be spending...

In other news, 6+ months later, I've just about finished reading all of the '60s Marvel stuff (up to mid-'69 at the moment). Trying to decide whether to just plunge insanely ahead into the '70s or if a break is advisable.

Maybe a break before you head into the auteur years at Marvel, which is the most fascinating stretch of its history to me. Englehart, Starlin, McGregor, Moench, Wolfman/Colan on Drac, etc. A mix of their highest highs and most embarrassing failures. Everything up to Jim Shooter's ascension as Eastern Pontiff Ed-in-Chief, aka The Day the Music Died.

I feel like I should start a thread for '60s Marvel questions and fun facts while this stuff is still relatively fresh in my brain. One of the bigger revelations for me was John Romita Sr.'s early work (I'd never found him particularly noteworthy before) and the extent to which that early work was clearly super influential on Jaime Hernandez. The early appearances of Mary Jane are basically proto-Penny Century.

my Bronze-era Marvel knowledge is p spotty, even though the tail end of that era was when I first started reading comics. The initial post-Kirby years are a total blank for me for the most part. I did pick up some Avengers vs. Thanos reprint collection the other day and it seemed to collect a lot of the key Starlin stuff, but it didn't blow me away or anything. It does seem like a v strange era.

By the time he came to draw Spider-Man Romita Sr had been a comics professional for something like fifteen years, so calling his Marvel stuff 'early work' is not entirely accurate. Romita had been toiling away mainly at DC/National, drawing romance and war strips; like many National artists of the post-war period, Romita he was a devout Caniff worshipper, so the way he drew his female characters was clearly indebted to (but not swiped from) things like Caniff's Male Call. Working initially from Kirby layouts on Daredevil, he quickly picked up on the kind of artist-driven dynamic storytelling that was the Marvel house style throughout the 60s, and was always excellent at things like 'modern' clothing, haircuts etc. Stan Lee clearly adored the way he 'sexed up' Spider-Man following Ditko's departureand it doesn't seem a coincidence that Spider-Man became Marvel's best-selling title once Romita took over. His main problem - he wasn't fast enough.

Yeah, I should've specified that I meant his early Marvel U work. Dude was clearly already super-polished by the time he started on Amazing so I figured he'd been doing it for a while at that point.

Also revelatory (although disappointing) is the dearth of standout Marvel artists in the '60s. I mean, it's pretty much Kirby, Steranko (more for design sense than draftsmanship), Romita, Colan, and Ditko (who, after extended exposure to his prime Marvel era, I'm realizing I'm not actually that crazy about). Buscema and Barry Windsor Smith have just gotten started. Everyone else is workmanlike at best and laughable at worst. I guess there's a reason why those particular names are still known 40+ years after the fact.

Those guys plus Heck and Ayers could, and just about did, draw the whole roster of titles before the distribution bottleneck was removed in 1968. There were some truly horrific inkers — coughgeorgeroussoscough — back in those days.

I also like the Severins, but John was, I think, doing mostly war and western in the '60s and Marie was mostly being inked horribly.

Buscema began drawing for Marvel in 66, slightly before Steranko. And I can't think of a comics company w/ a better frontline than Kirby, Ditko, Buscema, Colan and Romita (not to mention intermittent appearances from Wally Wood, Gil Kane, Bill Everett, Bob Powell, John Severin etc etc).

I sort've prefer the crude vitality of George Roussos' inking to the dead line of Ayers (or ugh Paul Reinman), but they had some great inkers in the 60s, too - a young Tom Palmer, already possibly the greatest comics inker of all time, Joe Sinnott, Chic Stone, George Klein, Everett again doing luscious work on Kirby; even Vince Colletta raised his game on Thor for a while (until he started erasing Kirby's backgrounds to save time).

You know, you're absolutely right that those guys really are top-tier. I think I'm just more disappointed because I'd hoped to stumble upon more quality artists from this period that I wasn't already familiar with.

I don't think I realized before that Colan was such a cornerstone of silver age Marvel. I associate him mainly with Daredevil and Tomb of Dracula and, because his style is so distinct in comarison to anything resembling the house style, I had always figured him for more of a niche guy.

Colan was the great third way of marvel storytelling, which wasn't really followed up. Lots of artists took after Kirby, some took after Ditko, but who the hell took after Colan?

Old Lunch you should totally get your thoughts down on this while they're fresh.

huh was unaware Colan took on Dr. Strange, and also

Colan admitted relying upon amphetamines in order to make deadlines for illustrating the series Doctor Strange,[28] for which he would personally visit the character's real-life Manhattan neighborhood, Greenwich Village, and shoot Polaroid photographs to use as location reference.

I bet Colan had colorists in the mechanical separation days pulling out their hair, with his blurs and speed lines.

xp -- yeah, iirc Colan was the artist during that funky run when Strange and Clea went back to 1776 and Ben Franklin seduced her while Strange was off saving the world.

Old Lunch, is there a timeline checklist that you're working off of?

also i find hickman's avengers work pretty much unreadable