Sun City Girls: classic or dud?

right
just makes him sound old!

agreed! was literally just thinking that.

there's really not a huge gulf between irl alan and old uncle jim, is there?

anyways he is my 2nd favorite bishop brother

other things that make alan bishop sound old: his raging anti-semitism and love of cigarettes.

also, the fact that he is old

saw him in concert earlier this year, first time i had seen him live since a sun city girls show in the late 1990s

he is very tall!

he is an anti-semite huh? that is bad. source?

googling alan bishop antisemism just got me stuff about bishop tutu

extensive discussion & comments here:

http://alienatedinvancouver.blogspot.com/2006/03/are-sun-city-girls-anti-semites.html

i unsubscribed from the SCG facebook page because i was tired of seeing hateful anti-israel sentiment. everyone's entitled to their own opinion, and I'm not exactly pro-israel, but was just getting tired of seeing such hateful shit.

wow, that's pretty bad

I have a tough time with the line between impassioned critique and just vicious bile when it comes to that subject -- I'm also "not exactly pro-Israel" but it's still an emotional subject for me, so there's a line where I just don't feel comfortable with the tone anymore whatever the content. I guess I don't listen to enough SCG to know how those lyrics fit in the context of the rest of their work though.

i think it's easy enough to ignore the lyrics if you want to, not sure what it says about me that i'd be eager to do that

thanks ian, that clarifies things. yuck. agree w/Hurting here, it's a subtle line but it gets creepy fast. Not that I'm qualified to judge, but I think all of those lyric examples in the link (other than the WFMU ad, which is as bothersome to me as the epithet in "Hippie Conglomerate") are dubious examples of anti-Semitism, so it's good to hear from another more contemporary source (FB page).

some of them seemed like standard-issue criticism of israel and zionism, others seemed to take a little too much glee in being offensive, but then again this is the SCG we're talking about

More disturbed that they might be 9/11 truthers ugh. I'm not sure they're anti-semites but they're clearly kinda jerks but that's not exactly news right.

Other people have posted their displeasure about the SCG's stance on Palestine and they admit to "not exactly being pro-Israel" and being emotional about the topic because they are Jewish. However, contrary to Netanyahu's narrative, being opposed to Israel is NOT the same thing as being anti-semitic. Neither is being opposed to US military action unpatriotic. The Bishop brothers are semites themselves. Or, at least half, as their mother was Lebanese. So, I wouldn't characterize them as being anti-semitic. They are anti-Israel.
It's also not fair to criticize them for recognizing that we live in a sexist world where women are generally not encouraged to be musicians (or anything else requiring an intellect, it sometimes seems). Alan Bishop's last two albums feature female musicians, so clearly he understands talent beyond gender.
All THAT said, it IS fair to criticize Alan Bishop for being pro-smoking, which I believe is as stupid as Beyonce promoting Coca-Cola. Although in Alan's case, there's an element of humor involved in his militant pro-smoking message. I wonder if he'd quit smoking if he had a little more willpower?

Also, this is pretty funny! ** stolen from that Alienated In Vancouver blog **

Are the Sun City Girls cannibals??

I find some of the Sun City Girls' music to be interesting (except those times when the singer cackles and shrieks, which hurts my ears a little, and he barely even seems to be saying words), and I think their Sublime Frequencies label is awfully neat, devoted to poor downtrodden cultures elsewhere in the sadly undeveloped part of the world, but I've come across a few things on their lyrics archive that, well, let's just say they have me a little concerned. I have to wonder – could the Sun City Girls be cannibals?

First of all, I couldn't help but notice this verse in the song "Bitter Cold Countryside."

Then we chopped him into six pieces
Two arms, two legs and a head
And his mid-section made a fine table
Next to Jimmy-O-Wilkinson's bed

And his toes now creep in the river
And his fingers they tickle the corn
And his skull flies high in the hemlock....
From dusk till the early morn

Now, granted, there are no references to the actual consumption of human flesh here, but the ritualistic dismemberment of a human body is very often part of cannibalistic practice. But, other than that, nothing is actually consumed, and I wouldn't even give it a second thought . . . if it wasn't for THIS, in the very next song on the archive, "Ruby on the Ferris Wheel":

"And I did not cry because I like to eat human flesh and all my friends are cannibals too! And if you don't like it, well just put in a complaint at the FDA."

Well, here, if I'm not mistaken, he's coming right out and endorsing the eating of human flesh! And I'm sorry, but that's just wrong. It's anti-human (not to mention anti-Semitic by default). And it's a little disingenuous to think that putting in a complaint at the FDA is going to make things alright, isn't it?

And then, only a few lines later, we have this:

"I don't have any mercy on all those people who died from any kind of tribulation. Yeah, like I'm gonna worry about it . . . I want them dead . . . I want nothing to do with 'em at all! Kill 'em, burn 'em, fuck 'em, eat 'em . . . just EAT 'EM!"

Strong words, huh? Of course, the Sun City Girls have always been known for "pushing buttons" and "breaking taboos," so maybe this is just another example? Surely they're entitled to a satirical song every now and then, right? And part of satire is that it's not to be taken literally. Fair enough, and I'm willing to let even this rather shocking pro-cannibalism treatise pass . . . . if it wasn't for enough other references sprinkled throughout their work to give me pause.

Like this, from the innocuously titled "Sour Smells in Nevada":

"You know, human flesh is addictive. Especially the meat from the head and the insides of the thighs. You can tell a cannibal by them giving off sour smells, with eyes slickly greasy as though swimming in pools of fat. Just look in their eyes. That's how you spot a cannibal."

Now, THIS seems to communicate first-hand knowledge of what it's actually like to eat human flesh. I certainly never knew any of this stuff, and wouldn't it take someone who is actually experienced in the act to know such specific information??

So, really, what do you think? Can someone can set my mind at ease about this? If anyone can vouch that they are not actually cannibals, I would sure appreciate it. I do really want to enjoy their music, and express my solidarity with those poor Arab cultures by purchasing their Sublime Frequencies records – but I don't know if I can give my money to cannibals. If anyone wants to offer any information, or a rebuttal of some kind, please do so. (Although, for the record, I actually have no intention whatsoever of being open to any new concepts of any kind. Just so you know.)

turning up late to this one but

They uncritically repeat one of the sillier rumours about 9/11 – one which is debunked in the film PROTOCOLS OF ZION – in the "song," "WFMU Station ID: Palmer" on Carnival Folklore Resurrection 11, presenting the following as a radio broadcast:
This is Palmer from Asia and Emerson, Lake and Myself, and when I'm in the New York area watching Israelis celebrate on rooftops as the remote-controlled aircraft fly into two towers, and the American public are duped, as they usually are, I always listen to WFMU Radio.

kind of amazed that anyone with even a passing familiarity with these guys would hear that and think "welp, guess that's what they literally believe"

when i saw the farewell tour thing they played some dope stuff and then spent the rest of the time telling like sub-frogs level ironic offensive jokes, it was pretty stupid, i was embarrassed for them

Other people have posted their displeasure about the SCG's stance on Palestine and they admit to "not exactly being pro-Israel" and being emotional about the topic because they are Jewish. However, contrary to Netanyahu's narrative, being opposed to Israel is NOT the same thing as being anti-semitic. Neither is being opposed to US military action unpatriotic. The Bishop brothers are semites themselves. Or, at least half, as their mother was Lebanese. So, I wouldn't characterize them as being anti-semitic. They are anti-Israel.

i don't equate criticism of israel with anti-semitism. i don't think most of the other people on this thread do, either. there was more to the criticism of the SCG than just "they are anti-zionist,"

this is so ferocious

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHnZcXRUUdo

down a youtube rabbit hole tonight

Yeah, it is! And I kinda wish there was more live SCG footage like that on Youtube, but it's such a mixed bag (like the band themselves, of course)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iziRRfFuqY

hell yeah, thanks

http://www.youtube.com/embed/bblW8PnkGGg

hey i need help finding a specific SCG that i have forgotten the name of. it's a slow, minimal song that is not in english - sounds like a southeast asian language in my memory but i could be wrong. it's just guitar and singing, and in the chorus, it has multiple singing in unison. sounds like it could be a cover or a traditional song instead of a SCG original. i have no idea what album it's from. any ideas?

probably one of the singles like "Borungku Si Derita"?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5bmVf2xP7U

yes that's it! that was so fast! thanks.

Original recording is also v beautiful

what is the original recording

this i suppose? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=th0yvyz3X_s

Yeah!

<3 ilm sometimes!

SCG seem to have created a Youtube account, where they're putting up a lot of the 80s cassettes and other stuff that's been OOP forever

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnQi2zVoylHxokBZwLLQzlQ

from Richard Bishop's FB page:

"Juggernaut - an unreleased 1994 Ukrainian "art film" by Mark Roman Bodnar and Kyrill Kazemirovitch Protsenko has just been posted to youtube. (Run time: 28 min.) Soundtrack by Sun City Girls. No sub titles. The film is dark, totally bleak, oddly edited, and the timing is, sadly, perfect."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVYiaqUQOYM

CARNIVAL FOLKLORE RESURRECTION !!! BIG SALE HAPPENING IN SEATTLE ON MARCH 11th and 12th - - The Bishop Brothers are going through storage units and clearing out things to sell. Alan and Richard will be hanging out and holding court for both days. Sale items will include: Musical instruments of all types, miscellaneous Sun City Girls stage & Studio weirdness, t-shirts, clothes, retro Film posters and lobby cards, Artwork, bizarre handicrafts, Records, Maps, practical things many people could use (including you), oddities, and who knows what else? We’re still going through boxes. If you’re anywhere near Seattle this coming weekend, you should probably go to this! PLEASE SHARE WITH YOUR FRIENDS IN THE PACIFIC NW.

WHERE: in Seattle at INDIAN SUMMER Vintage (Back Room) 534 Summit Ave E (Capitol Hill).

WHEN: Saturday March 11th 11:00 am - 6:00 pm, and Sunday March 12th 11:00 am - 5:00 pm.

CASH ONLY

new band!

Just Announced: CLANDESTINE QUARTET (Alan Bishop, Richard Bishop, Chris Corsano, Michael Flower) will be performing a live set of new material on September 15th in London. Full details and ticket link on the event page.

"Sun City Girls, was one of the most fiercely independent, challenging and totally unpredictable bands to have operated outside of the mainstream. Sun City Girls embraced and subverted styles and tropes from various genres and cultures, creating a blend of deranged surf, Eastern-but-not-Eastern free improvisation, stateless folk, avant-mysticism and whatever else you want to call it.

Sun City Girls disbanded in 2007, following the death of drummer Charles Gocher. The Sun City name could never be revived without the mad versatile genius of Gocher, a ‘high priest of the outside’ – a line from Alan Bishop’s touching tribute to Gocher in Perfect Sound Forever. The Bishops have only infrequently performed together since, notably on the Brothers Unconnected tour, instead focusing on their personal endeavours: Richard, on free rock outfit Rangda, and solo work under his Sir Richard Bishop guise; Alan, on his project Alvarius B, alongside bands The Invisible Hands, and Dwarfs of East Agouza. And of course, there’s Sublime Frequencies, the label that Alan co-owns with Hisham Mayet, a label that resists any form of cultural gatekeeping, releasing artists and music not represented in any music magazine’s false idea of a ‘canon’.

So how do they go about playing together in a band again, without the deft hand of Charlie Gocher? They’ve enlisted drummer Chris Corsano, an extraordinary percussionist and improvisor, a member of Rangda (with Richard Bishop and Ben Chasny), and known for his work with saxophonist Paul Flaherty. Corsano has performed with Jim O’Rourke, Joe McPhee, Bill Nace (Vampire Belt), Jandek, Bjork, and countless others. They’re also joined by Mick Flower – who has regularly performed with Corsano as Flower-Corsano, and is best known as a member of ecstatic drone ensemble Vibracathedral Orchestra.

Together, they’re hiding away for a week in a studio to write a completely new set of material. And what will it sound like? Who knows. Perhaps the Bishops have found kindred spirits in the form of Flower-Corsano. Or perhaps they’ve just found two new figures to spar with. Whatever the case, this is an unmissable opportunity to witness a performance from the unparalleled brothers of avant-everything".

Holy crap. I'm in!

Well, not in the sense of going to London for the concert, but short of that.

as per tylerw's post from March, FB friend posted this, thought it sounded p interesting

Phx/Tempe record collectors. Eastside Records has ... Alan Bishop's map collection from his Wide World of Maps years. 2 bucks a map, naked cash. Those maps are conveniently buried under some rubble near cash register.

not gonna make that London show on Friday but I am going to see Senyawa, who are supporting, the day before. high recommendation

Was that Torch of The Mystics reissue last year a one off or are there other releases coming?
I only have a couple of their cds and would like more if they're as good.

Rick has said a few times recently that he'd love to get the 80s Placebo trilogy (and Dawn of the Devi etc) reissued, but there's nothing official yet.

yeah those seem like the most obvious candidates to me, Djinn Funnel is another personal favorite that is tough to find

JUst looking at prices of cds on Amazon. So hope there is something coming.
Have found loads on Spotify which i hadn't really looked at before.
Still wondering what determines what turns up on there after seeing which artists have loads of lps up.

https://www.strandedrecords.com/collections/twenty-one-eighty-two-recording-company/products/sun-city-girls-live-at-the-sky-church-september-3rd-2004-lp-dvd

Thanks for the heads up, I should pick that up.

Thought the revive would be about the fact that AB and RB recently played two nights as a duo at Zebulon in LA. I'm unsure how many times they've played together since the demise of SCG, but it can't have been often.

Didn't they play a bunch as Brothers Unconnected?

Yeah, that's how last week's shows were billed, I didn't know they'd done it previously.

Yeah it was a tour maybe a year or so after charlie died. Saw the nyc one. It was great. They sold a brothers unconnected CDR at it which I haven’t spun in awhile.

Anyone know what the live set was like around this time? Tempted to buy this, especially with the added bonus of the DVD.

no predictability whatsoever afaik - I saw them that same year at Berbati's in Portland and it was almost solid gnarly improv madness. Charlie attacked the crowd with a whip. this set sounds interesting for sure.