Let's bitch about our stupid, annoying co-workers

I need some advice from my ilx peeps. Well, a reaction check really.

I was recently reprimanded in a meeting with my manager and the head of HR for an incident of tardiness that occurred about 4 weeks ago. There were mitigating factors. There is a twice weekly half hour conference call for managers with a development company we work with who is based in India. My manager told me that she would like me to be on these calls. I am not a manager but she decided to make me the QA lead of the project that the conference call is the subject of (no official title or pay raise though. shocker!). I said I would and she said that since the conference call is scheduled to start half an hour before my start time, I could join the call from home and then drive in after the call finished which would get me in half an hour later than my normal start time.

I did this the first time I joined the meeting but when I arrived at work my manager was incredibly upset because I was 'late'. I reminded her that she had said I could take the call at home and drive in after it but she ignored that and was still pretty livid. After that I started either getting in before the call or taking the call in my car as I drove in to work to be sure I would be there before or at my start time. Like I said, this was about 4 weeks ago and nothing had been said about it since.

Last Friday I was called in to the head of HR's office. My manager was there and she informed me that she had told her boss I had been late on that day and that she had then told the head of HR the same thing. For half an hour I was berated by these two then given a written disciplinary warning to sign and told that I am now on a 30 day probation period. This bugs me but I know this woman is vindictive and kind of a whack job so I wasn't really too upset about it.

What I was upset about was that she had made me look bad in front of two people who I truly like and respect - her boss and and the head of HR. I mean I liked this man (HR guy) so much that the one time PP visited me at work I made a point to stop by his office and introduce them, later explaining to PP that 'He is my favorite person in the whole company'. In the almost 3 years I have worked here, and before this meeting last Friday, I would visit with him often just to chat and talk about life in general. We originally bonded over being the only non-southerners (he is from Philly) in a very southern, republican, gun-toting, animal murdering; immigrant, black people and Yankee hating company (Not the owners or non-managerial employees but definitely a lot of middle management loudly and proudly voice these views).

Anyway, back to the meeting on Friday. When they were finished with me I asked the HR guy if I could speak to him alone for a moment to which he agreed. I intended to explain what my manager had originally agreed to but I realized at that point it would just sound like a lame excuse/sour grapes so I instead asked him what the 30 probation actually meant. If my manager had another problem with me would I be fired etc. He was so cold and dismissive to me I felt like a piece of crap. But you know, fine. I'll get over it and I assumed he would too. I thanked him for clarifying the terms for me. As I stood up to leave, out of the blue, he said to me, quite loudly and in an unmistakably condescending tone, 'Do you have some kind of emotional problem?'. I was completely stunned. All I could do was stammer 'Uh, No' and make a fast exit.

My question for you guys is does this strike you as overtly sexist? Not only did it seem to come out of nowhere and obviously had nothing to do any tardiness on my part but I can't imagine a male being asked the same question for any reason. I'm so angry he would say something like that. I don't LOVE my job but I'm very good at it and I like working at this company mostly because the people on my team are awesome and the family that own the business are really good people. But now all I can think about is quitting. Am I overreacting?

this sounds fucking awful, and seriously fucked up. is is possible your manager said some nasty things about you behind your back to the HR guy that he now believes?

that all sounds very very attackable imo ss

what the heck? that's awful

given a written disciplinary warning to sign

was there no process of appeal against this? sounds so wrong to have to sign something that you wholeheartedly disagree with

she bad mouths her superiors and my co-workers to me constantly so yeah I think its a very safe bet she had dissed me to a lot of people.

had you no warning, no option to bring in a witness, to prepare against the complaint?

a month after it occurred and with a case to state you'd be informed of other arrangements?

get it down in writing and in to the head of HR's boss pronto imo

The HR's boss is the CEO. I'm not sure I'm brave enough to do that. Ugh so freaking lame.

the only path you've left imo but if not then def to the HR head, despite their dickishness (and unprofessionalism) here

dmac otm. Especially get this — I reminded her that she had said I could take the call at home and drive in after it but she ignored that and was still pretty livid — down in writing and distributed to anyone and everyone. She told you to do something a specific way and then punished you for doing it exactly that way. That shit can't fly.

I agree with you guys but its still her word against mine and my word is worth nothing at this point

You're on a 30 day probation with a written disciplinary warning because you came into work half an hour late one day? Even ignoring the mitigating factors, that is fucking ridiculous.

ya - i'd have no idea how to handle that! (sorry)

My feeling was always that HR is for the company's protection, not yours. They're never going to reprimand your boss, and even if you can get them to take your side, you're still left with the problem that your boss is out to get you.

I don't about QUITTING, but it might be smart to think about how to make a move?

HR is for protection against overly aggressive and hasty uncorroborated managerial reprimand

the same laws obv don't apply, but ms mac's job is to keep the supervisory/managerial workers from doing damage to the company through behaviour exactly as detailed in sunny's story.

Passive-aggressively print out a copy of the SHRM code of ethics and tack it to his door.

sunny that sucks. Unless you do have an "emotional problem" such that you might fall under the protections of the ADA (and I'm not ADA expert so I can't say one way or another what's covered), I don't think you have any legal issues here. But I completely validate how ridiculous and terrible this is. What the hell.

Oh, I don't suppose you have the agreement to take the call at home and then drive to work in an email or anything do you?

hypothetical: what if the "emotional problems" answer was "yes"?!

woah - xpost

http://www.eeoc.gov/policy/docs/psych.html

d-mac is otm, also your word is only worth nothing if you don't register anything. there's a way you can speak up about your concerns and pov that emphasizes addressing the problem, "solution-focused", firm about what happened but aimed towards making sure it doesn't happen again. if you can accompany your write-up with some documentation of , maybe after another one-on-one with HR, even if it's only "your word" you might be surprised by the results. people who have to work with awfuls like your boss just want to avoid problems with the awful but there is likely no allegiance there and push-back within acceptable boundaries from you, the victim, can end up shortening the leash of awfuls like your boss a little bit

also your word is only worth nothing if you don't register anything

i really wanted to say this but i don't want to be telling you how to deal with this when it's you in the situation and not me.

matt 100% otm obv

My feeling was always that HR is for the company's protection, not yours. They're never going to reprimand your boss, and even if you can get them to take your side, you're still left with the problem that your boss is out to get you.

I don't about QUITTING, but it might be smart to think about how to make a move?

― Orson Wellies (in orbit), Tuesday, October 21, 2014 1:23 PM (36 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

HR is for protection against overly aggressive and hasty uncorroborated managerial reprimand

the same laws obv don't apply, but ms mac's job is to keep the supervisory/managerial workers from doing damage to the company through behaviour exactly as detailed in sunny's story.

― local eire man (darraghmac), Tuesday, October 21, 2014 1:26 PM (33 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

See differences between US workplaces and every other 1st world country's workplace. Darragh, if I were still in Australia you would be totally on point but since I'm in the US, IO is absolutely OTM.

and re the 'emotional problem'. I don't run around work bursting into tears ever and I certainly didn't in that meeting. (I wont say Ive never cried at work but its never been work related and if I have felt it coming I usually go outside and take a walk - there is NOONE here that can say they have seen me cry)

I thought I was extremely cordially during that meeting considering the ridiculous circumstances.

Yeah that's the most left-field part! Mid-level managers with no people skills don't even surprise me, but the head of HR asking something like that?? If you DID have a documented mental health issue he could have just exposed the firm to legal action! I mean....

yeah I'm trying to keep that in mind sunny. have they documented policies in place laying out disciplinary procedures you could test against here or anything?

you suck US BTW. tho on the bright side you just got a supermacs

US labor law is dreadful.

My wife had a problem very similar to this at Costco. She was able to quit, however. This is a tough one if you like the job, though, and I'd go with io's advice to act with caution. These people really are playing hilariously small stakes Game of Thrones while causing collateral damage to other employees' lives. Through some cocktail of drugs, alcohol, and self-delusion, they still manage to sleep at night.

SS, tell them the "flexible" punchline. It'd be hilarious if it wasn't us.

You're on a 30 day probation with a written disciplinary warning because you came into work half an hour late one day? Even ignoring the mitigating factors, that is fucking ridiculous.

― emil.y, Tuesday, 21 October 2014 17:54 (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah this. wtf

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lq5Qaukjvj4

as far as my word/her word and documentation goes, at least you have been on those calls, so if need be you can probably point to them somehow, ask that the other participants confirm it, etc? and if you were, then you must have been doing it before your normal start time, which would certainly bolster any claim you might make about having been asked to do this by your manager.

i dunno tho, i'm not in the business world but i just read a thing on their use of internal disciplinary procedures like these, and it made it sound like a routine convenience for them to get rid of people on a pretext covering for other reasons. the way you describe it sure sounds either out of the blue or wackadoodle. obviously it's something to be real cautious about but maybe it's also something to consider being very assertive about? because the procedures like this are easy to exploit against people for bad reasons since they cause fear.

ya - that first bit is a really good point. you were actually *working* before your actual start time.

this is horrible, sunny.

oh they know that. They also know that now I'm faux team lead of the project I often work half an hour to an hour after 6 (my official home time) because, besides doing my actual job on a project that has a super tight deadline, I have to construct a detailed project status email that involves multiple reports, full details on the status of every bug found in the software and the status of modules being developed and tested by the US office, the India office and the other India office which amounts to summing up the daily work of close to 35 people. Not really sure why this isn't a management task but whatever.

I should probably point out that my manager has worked here for all of 10 weeks. Bleh. Im going to shut up now.

Oh yeah. That is definitely why this happened then. Your manager is new and trying to produce some hard evidence of 'managing' for the higher ups to see. This is so similar to my wife's problem that it's almost funny. (But it's not funny. I'm sorry you have to deal with it.)

Both of them are fucking assholes (can you see I've moved from shock to hurt now ANGER). As soon as we are back from Australia in January I am O-U-T

otm

speaking as someone in a managerial position at a tech company, this situation you are in is practically inconceivable. You absolutely should not be treated this way. Putting you on probation for being late once a month ago because you were tending to work matters is completely absurd.

The best thing I can suggest is build a "mitigation plan" that ostensibly addresses whatever problems you are supposed to be fixing, but that documents in detail the exact timeline (including dates/times) of every relevant thing that happened leading up to this so that HR has a documented record of exactly what happened from your POV. You could even frame this in a Problem/Complication/Solution format where the Problem is you need to be at work on time, the Complication is that your manager specifically said you could lead the early morning call from home before coming in to the office (include date/time of this conversation), and the solution being something like no more meetings lead from home if it means you won't be in the office at the specified time. This will show that you are taking concrete action to fix the situation while making it painfully clear that it all stems from specific guidance from your manager.

^^ brilliant idea, but can't help feeling that getting out after your Aus visit is an even better one. On the other hand, how ridiculous and sad to have to leave a team you really like so those fuckers can play some kind of vindictive 6-year-olds' version of 'management'. If you're prepared to leave, and there's any way of letting the CEO know about this without torpedoing your reference, you probably should.

What did your boss actually say when you reminded her of what she'd told you to do? 'No I didn't'? The mind boggles.

do both ideas. and looking fwd to sunshiney beers in December

ljubljana, she didn't respond to it at all. just started talking over me with some kind of drawly, herda hadda jibberish.

sic, YES

sunny that's awful! I'm sorry.

Currently enjoying the sysadmin having a loud monologue about how he and x have minds "like a steel trap" and when they get together "ideas just accelerate" and he tries "to be mindful that people like <several coworkers' names here including two in my office who can quite clearly hear the conversation> just can't keep up"

you giant, giant asshat

I feel bad for butting in now, so ss I really hope things work out for you

Jesus

I've just got to deal with a jaded loudmouth who declares he's jackin it, jackin it in, jackin it up, if it wasn't for his back he'd have jacked it yesterday

how to let him know about masturbation slang while remaining above the ensuing fray is the q

aps please do butt in! my sitch is just so ridiculous at this point there is really nothing else to say EXCEPT for this:

I had a small victory this morning. My manager had her boss pull all of my entry and exit card swipes and email them to her in prep for my HR take down last week. Yesterday, I was looking for a document I had sent to our printer, which is shared by multiple departments, and what do I find but a sheet of my card swipes printed by my manager. The sheet was dated 10/01 so it had been sitting there for anyone to see for 22 days. The HR guy was out yesterday so this morning (after making a copy for myself) I took the sheet into him, pointed out that it was sensitive and personal information that had been left by the printer for 22 days and that I considered it a serious breach of privacy. He agreed that it was a serious HIPAA (Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act - I work in Healthcare IT) breach and sent out a scathing email to all staff. He didn't mention my manager by name but I did to one person on my team which pretty much means the entire company will know by lunch time. Vindictive? Sure. I'm having a real hard time feeling bad about it though.

also, APS, I read A LOT of true crime books and all murderers seem to have two things in common: they like torturing/killing animals and they are obsessed with being the smartest person in the room. I'm not saying this annoying dude is a murderer (I hope that's obvious) but that kind of behavior definitely creeps the hell out of me.

Using office gossip to your benefit is so fun. I did that a couple of times when I worked for the state.

She's only been working there 10 weeks and she had it in for you 22 DAYS AGO?? That's MAD!

well the bastards have finally done it

after firing the director who altered my job to make it interesting, but far beyond the scope of my job title, they've created a new research manager position that actually describes my job, lists my qualifications as "the qualifications," and are baiting me to apply

all these politics have left such a bad taste in my mouth that i'm not sure if i want to go out for it even if they seem to be handing it to me on a platter