Is the Stone Roses debut really as good as is claimed?

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Yes it is, it is possibly one of the greatest debut albums ever made and still stands up today IMHO. Each song has its own character and makes a perfect snapshot of the era. And Waterfall is one of the greatest songs to get stoned to EVER, ;)

― achilles_last_stand, Saturday, 12 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

DGs right - it sags, liked the mondays 12"s better - colleague of the missus was talking to squire about art the other day - it's a small world.

MELODY MAKER touted roses as incorporating there love of ACiEED (the music ) with guitars - so i bought it - IPC you owe me !

mind they also said the beyond were the future of rock - 'cubist metal' where iz you now ?

― geordie name droppa, Saturday, 12 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-three years ago) link

seven months pass...

Fact is,YOU`re all WANKERS.blaa blaa.I´m glad you haven´t "got it".you´re not worth it.

― Your worst nightmare, Thursday, 3 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Nice of you to drop in Mr Brown.

― stevo, Thursday, 3 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Clueless.

You lot are a waste of bandwidth.

Roses rule.

Fuck off.

― Sally Cinnamon, Saturday, 12 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

I think Adam Ant said it all -- desperate, but not serious. At least I assume you're not serious.

― Ned Raggett, Sunday, 13 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Is the Stone Roses debut really as good as is claimed?

In one word ...... YES!!!!!!

― Paul McAuley, Sunday, 13 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

hey sally, look, you've got the same name as a stone roses song, that is so cool!

fuck off

yes, a salient point, i can see where you're coming from on that. welcome to ILM sally, it is always good to have new posters here. cheers!

― gareth, Sunday, 13 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

At the time i thought it was great but I also thought the Northside, The Farm, Paris Angels etc. were great too, so what do I know!

Seriously though, I still think it is a good album and it would be in my top 100 but fairly far down.

Personal favourite - Sugar Spun Sister. Is this part of the weak middle that many of you are talking about?

― Little drummer boy, Sunday, 13 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

While I'm here, I actully found this site while looking for an MP3 of an early Soup Dragons song called Can't Take No More. It came out long before they 'discovered' exctasy and dance (honest guv'ner). Anybody here any ideas where I can find it

Sorry to detract away from the subject of the board, but I just thought I'd ask.

― Little drummer boy, Sunday, 13 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

i was just wondering which songs are being classed as the "weak middle" on this LP?. Am i to believe that you people are referring to sugar spun sister, made of stone and shoot you down?- how such beautiful, magnificent songs can be "weak" is completely beyond me. Every song (ok, ignoring elizabeth my dear and dont stop) is absolute, unrivalled class. If anyone can play me a better rock song than I wanna be adored, waterfall or I am the ressurection i'd really love to enlightened! As for Fools gold, what a storming track. Without doubt the only tune that gets EVERYONE on the dancefloor in indie clubs up and down the country and lets put it this way, if the band had gone on to create a whole album of tunes along the lines of fools gold, one love and somethings burning we wouldnt need to even discuss which LP is the best of all time!. It's fair enough if some people dont "get it" or have simply decided they "just dont like it" but such people really are missing out on an LP that has the ability to blow you away each time you play it.

― dermo, Sunday, 13 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

two months pass...

eerrrrrr.....what u doin?? have u lot got the IQ score of a plant? -Ian Brown defined a generation over a decade ago; the seminal 'Fool's Gold EP' personified the late 80s 'baggy' scene with its liquid melodies and innovative & original chords........ (need i say more?)

-Punks, you gotta ask yourself a question - have u even been to madchester??

― dirty harry, Wednesday, 3 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

innovative & original chords........

Okay, I like "Fool's Gold" a lot, but the above phrase would never occur to me when describing it unless I was saying something like "I really like 'Fool's Gold', even though it does have innovative and original chords."

― Dan Perry, Wednesday, 3 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

AARGH. "...doesn't..."

― Dan Perry, Wednesday, 3 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

well seeing as i'm only 20 i missed out on "being there",and only bought the album a few years ago,based mainly on its reputation...at first i was fairly disappointed,but once i stopped expecting it to be the best thing ever it grew on me quite a lot... i still like most of it,although i can see why people wouldnt... however,i think "this is the one" is one of the best songs i have ever heard...as far as i'm concerned it stands head and shoulders above anything else they have done,yet for some reason i never hear anyone talk about it.. cheers, robin

― robin, Wednesday, 3 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Ian Brown defined a generation over a decade ago

Does that mean that, like him, you are currently wandering around stinky, unshaven and in desperate need of lying down and doing nothing for a good long while?

― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 3 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

I was "there" when it came out in the US, and although I didn't get the rest of Madchester (save for Happy Mondays), I did dig this one. It hasn't held up well, though -- it's so sixties retro that it dates itself as being eighties retro. Does that make sense? Anyway, "Don't Stop" is utter garbage (perhaps it always was), "Made of Stone" and "Elephant Stone" are freaking boring, and "Elizabeth My Dear" is even sillier now than it was at the time. However, Squier's layered guitar overdubs are excellent on most of the other tracks, "I am the Resurrection," "(Song for My)Sugar Spun Sister" and "I Wanna Be Adored" are masterpieces, and "Shoot You Down" and "She Bangs the Drums" remain pretty cool. "Fools Gold" was on the second copy of the CD that I got (the first one having been stolen), and I loved the Clyde Stubblefield sample, but that's it--there's not much song there, which is probably why it worked so well in clubs.

So, to answer the question--no, probably not as good as claimed, but still worth a listen.

― J, Wednesday, 3 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

I prefer songs to NOT have innovative and original chords. Sounds a bit scary if you ask me.

― electric sound of jim, Wednesday, 3 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

I have to agree with Kate here: the guitars are very nice, and the lazy voice with it's vicious content is pretty cool, but it's all about the Bass. It's the record that made me decide that when I was going to be a musician, I was going to be a bassist. Not that I did or anything.

And I heard it in mid 94ish, well after the hype. It just sounded... classic.

― Andrew Farrell, Thursday, 4 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

I love it when my old threads come back.

Yes, I hold to my verdict from last May and gibbering shite like "Ian Brown defined a generation over a decade ago" doesn't help your cause, you know. It just makes you sound like you've read some dreadful NME retrospective piece and regurgitate the most asinine bits of it to make it look like you know what you're talking about.

And the Happy Mondays were way better! Ha ha!

― DG, Thursday, 4 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Kate Sinclair said that the Dunaway 67 remix of The Dandy Warhols by Schizo Fun Addict was so amazing that her beloved Dandy Warhols should seriously consider having us produce their next record.

http://www.schizofunaddict.com

and Ned Ragget never got the joke. Fascist MF.

― Burnweed, Monday, 15 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

three weeks pass...

no..it sucks

― DarrenS, Wednesday, 8 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

eight months pass...

I love the music but I hate the shit that surrounds it.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 8 January 2003 16:52 (twenty-one years ago) link

not as good as is claimed, but i'd rather a merely very good album is fawned over, rather than a totally shit one.

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Wednesday, 8 January 2003 17:01 (twenty-one years ago) link

i think its as good as people say...its not THAT over-rated in the media really...

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 8 January 2003 17:48 (twenty-one years ago) link

I liked it when i last listened to it 4 years ago.

― christoff (christoff), Wednesday, 8 January 2003 19:11 (twenty-one years ago) link

still love it, except for "This is the One" which is pointless/hookless.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 8 January 2003 19:43 (twenty-one years ago) link

one year passes...

Wow! Some people dont get it, some people do, how freaky is that? Not very.
The band, the album and the attitude are all part of the same thing with the Roses, miss one boat and you've missed it all - and who cares about your opinion anyway?

― Steev, Thursday, 29 January 2004 10:47 (twenty years ago) link

and who cares about your opinion anyway?

oh, well we might as well give up now then. Moderator, lock the Internet, it's all over.

― CharlieNo4 (Charlie), Thursday, 29 January 2004 11:04 (twenty years ago) link

See, I love this album, but that kind of anti-debate opinion pisses me off. There's plenty wrong with the album, just like almost every album, and plenty of room for discussion.

― Llahtuos Kcin (Nick Southall), Thursday, 29 January 2004 11:07 (twenty years ago) link

He obviously cares about our opinions, otherwise he wouldn't have posted.

― Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 29 January 2004 11:07 (twenty years ago) link

That too, is up for debate... :o)

― Llahtuos Kcin (Nick Southall), Thursday, 29 January 2004 11:08 (twenty years ago) link

i'm still not bored of 'Waterfall' even tho it's on those adverts (Lottery?) all the time

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 29 January 2004 11:26 (twenty years ago) link

The first four and the last four I love. If they'd replaced the middle three with "Standing Here" and "Whetre Angels Play" it'd be a totally different album and everyone'd hate it!

― Llahtuos Kcin (Nick Southall), Thursday, 29 January 2004 11:36 (twenty years ago) link

Sad to say, my opinion of three years ago has not changed.

― Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 29 January 2004 11:39 (twenty years ago) link

Am I the only one who would skip the opening track?

― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 29 January 2004 11:41 (twenty years ago) link

Fair enough.

I'm surprised Silvertone didn't choose to remaster and rerelease all the early stuff last year, the debut, Turns Into Stone etcetera (I wouldn't be surprised if they remastered and rereleased the bloody singles!). They've never missed an opportunity to sponge off the Roses before, and the Very Best Of compilation looked like being the start of a reissue process.

X-post; Yes. You must be insane!

― Llahtuos Kcin (Nick Southall), Thursday, 29 January 2004 11:43 (twenty years ago) link

It goes without saying that I adore this album and the Stone Roses lead me directly to the Byrds/Buffalo Springfield axis. The debut is without flaws. The only flaw is perfection and I guess that is going to bug alot of people.

― doomified, Thursday, 29 January 2004 11:43 (twenty years ago) link

But again remember, at this very moment, I'm stuck between believing that 'Greetings from Astbury Park' and The Constantines 'Shine A Light' are the greatest things I've heard in my life.

― doomified, Thursday, 29 January 2004 11:46 (twenty years ago) link

What bugs a lot of people is that it is indie(!) with guitars on(!), which is about as fashionable as having dark-brown teeth or liking Tony Blair.

― Vasquesz, Thursday, 29 January 2004 11:47 (twenty years ago) link

i own no Stone Roses albums so if you offered me one then i'd have to admit the most recent 'very best of' actually has the most appeal

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 29 January 2004 11:47 (twenty years ago) link

What bugs a lot of people is that it is indie(!) with guitars on(!), which is about as fashionable as having dark-brown teeth or liking Tony Blair.

Ha ha. True. See, if they had a remix by Junior Senior with b/up vocals by Beyonce and production by NERD but remained the same - different story. ha ha.

Anyways did you hear the news - INDIE is back in fashion!

― doomies, Thursday, 29 January 2004 11:49 (twenty years ago) link

What bugs a lot of people is that it is indie(!) with guitars on(!), which is about as fashionable as having dark-brown teeth or liking Tony Blair.

On the contrary, what bugs a lot of people is that this album of bland, innocuous indie-pap is treated as if it's a work of genius. In lists of most overrated albums of all time this is Top 5.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 29 January 2004 11:52 (twenty years ago) link

That kinda sounds like the same thing man

― Silly Sailor (Andrew Thames), Thursday, 29 January 2004 11:54 (twenty years ago) link

http://www.stoneroses.net/bootlegs/CMdvd.html

she bangs the drums video is really good, i think it gets at what they were about

― Stringent Stepper (Stringent), Thursday, 29 January 2004 11:55 (twenty years ago) link

Great, now I hate my favourite album. Cheers, Doomie!

― Llahtuos Kcin (Nick Southall), Thursday, 29 January 2004 11:56 (twenty years ago) link

WRT to all that stuff upthread, whatever happened to BURNWEED? Last thing I heard he had jacked in all that worshipping Ian Brown stuff and was attempting to become a professional golfer. Now he really *is* insane.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 29 January 2004 11:57 (twenty years ago) link

ehehehehe... He's great. The web needs more completely insane people.

― Llahtuos Kcin (Nick Southall), Thursday, 29 January 2004 11:58 (twenty years ago) link

CHALLENGE: discuss the album without mentioning INDIE.

― doomies, Thursday, 29 January 2004 11:59 (twenty years ago) link

It's a lovely catchy guitarpop record w/some unusually interesting production/structures. Nice one Stone Roses! 4/5.

― Silly Sailor (Andrew Thames), Thursday, 29 January 2004 12:01 (twenty years ago) link

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