Tom Waits: classic or dud/search & destroy

oh YOU.

(can't fault your taste, though) :)

But Mule Variations has "Big In Japan" and "Hold On" and "Get Behind The Mule"! It may be a bit om-by-numbers in places, but there's this almost physical sense of weariness throughout which none of his other albums ever capture... it's a record where he shows his age.

The Black Rider is shit-scary... I still need to acquire Bone Machine.

TS: Alice vs Blood Money? I go with the latter, though "Alice" is possibly the best song from the two of them put together.

let's see. on frank's wild years we have "hang on st.christopher," "temptation," "innocent when you dream," "yesterday's here," "way down in the hole," "telephone call from istanbul," "cold, cold ground," and "train song."
if this record is underrated, it's more than curious - it's criminal!

yay! its his best record, i think. that and bone machine.

whats his worst?

franks wild years is the best, I think, and I have much much affection for the black rider

didn't really care for mule variations though, and his last two left me a little cold, though I think "blood money" is the better of the two

I just bought Black Rider, having been previously put off by the AMG review. To be honest, I've listened to it once and it's currently m fave since swordfishtrombones.

it's so good!

frank's wild years is definitely my favorite

Yeah, Mule Variations is great. I keep meaning to pick up Small Change from the bargain bins because of the band on it.

Also, Marc Ribot!!

Pictures in a Frame:

http://www.kicoz.nu/tom_waits/images/shoezko.jpghttp://www.c-m-b.com/web/tom%20waits.jpghttp://elsewhere.polydistortion.net/lib/cache/pics/music/2002-04-19-tom-waits.small.jpghttp://www.e835.to.infn.it/people/fbertini/waits.jpg

Pleasingly feminine: http://www.front.net/gtausch/waits.jpg

Earth Died Screaming
http://www.sallykirkland.com/images/gallery/coldft2.jpg

Overrated. Not by much, but he seems to enjoy this sort of "if you like him, you're in the secret club" status more than almost anyone else. I haven't been especially moved by his last few records, but I was a huge fan from like Frank's Wild Years to Black Rider (in realtime, and I worked my back) I currently don't have any T.W. at home, but if I was to get anything, it would probably Nighthawks at the Diner.

franks wild years is the best of the later for me, and foreign affairs, the best of the earlier. the bette midler duet is possibly his best song!

Dud. I feel bad when I walk into a store or student-oriented take-out place and some poor misguided souls are playing his music.

Ditto for Nick Cave.

Rockist JOTO

Pish.

I've got nothing but admiration for those two misself, and consider Cave's "The Mercy Seat" the best J. Cash of the last 20 years. But they're both severely overrated. They're way too often token weirdness or worse, weirdness-worn-on-sleeve.

but the music is still good! who cares how other people wear it?

From The Wire:

"The next generaton of an underworld American musical dynasty makes its debut on a new LP currently being worked on by Tom Waits. The singer's son Casey appears playing percussion and turntables on the album, working title Real Gone, slated for release this autumn on Anti Records."

And yes, I know, there were turntables on Mule Variations. But they weren't played by his son!!!

I really, really hope that this isn't a bad sign!

Heh. I once read a quote from a musician who had worked with Waits to the effect of, "I think he would hire all six-year-olds for his bands if he could get away with it."

Look at it this way, at least it's not DJ Logic.

I know I'm chiming in late on this one - but absolute classic, def. one of my all time faves, though I need to be in the mood these days.

Best song: Who Are You from [i]Bone Machine[/i]. Does anyone else find this song to be the most perfect song/performance of his career. Reduces me to a husk every time.

Fave albums are [i]Closing Time, Swordfishtrombones, Franks Wild Years[/i] and [i]Bone Machine[/i]. [i]Mule Variations[/i] and [i]Alice/Blood Money[i/] I like very much, though a little patchy. Given what albums I love, should I get [i]Black Rider[/i]?

Please ignore dodgy HTML work there!

i'll bet the turntables are hand cranked 78's!

wick-wick-wicked!

<crossed fingers>please please please be good</crossed fingers>

We've all jinxed it by even thinking about it!

Has anyone heard that Ramones cover he did? Apparently his kid plays drums on it.

if it's bad i will hold you personally responsible, Adam.

NO!

"The Ramones cover" is probably "I Don't Wanna Grow Up" - on Bone Machine.

Nah, it's "The Return of Jackie & Judy" on this.

Oooh.

"Tom Waits was a bit stunned when he heard the news of his latest Grammy nomination for “Best Male Rock Vocal Performance” for “Return Of Jack & Judy,” his contribution to We’re A Happy Family: A Tribute to the Ramones (Columbia Records), which also featured tracks performed by Red Hot Chili Peppers, Rob Zombie, Eddie Vedder/Zeke, Metallica, John Frusciante, Kiss, Marilyn Manson, Garbage, Green Day, The Offspring, Pretenders, Rancid, Pete Yorn, Rooney and U2.

According to Johnny Ramone, “It took the Ramones 30 years to be eventually nominated for a Grammy. Thanks to Tom Waits for finally getting us there.”

Tom Waits recorded the track for the tribute album with his son Casey Waits on drums and Les Claypool of Primus on bass, while Brett Gurewitz from Bad Religion and Epitaph Records founder co-produced and played guitar. “The only honor possibly greater than producing and playing on a Tom Waits track would be to do it for The Ramones,” said Gurewitz. “The fact that it’s nominated for a Grammy makes it all the more surreal.”"

ENOUGH WITH THE PRIMUS!

(Les Claypool is on the new record again, I know at least one ILXer will be delighted at this. *hint* it's not ME)

It would be me if my name started with an N and ended with an ick! Really though, he's never sounded at all identifiable on Waits records, which is to his credit.

Going back real quickly to the C/D thing, I love most all of what I have of Waits' catalogue (which is now a little over half of it). After reading this thread, I really regret not owning Frank's Wild Years, Black Rider, and Blue Valentine. I'll have to check them out. I was introduced to Waits last year by a professor who has a bit of a Waitsian persona himself.

Of what I've heard, I enjoy the Swordfishtrombones and later material more than pre-SFT. On the Swordfishtrombones vs. Rain Dogs point, somebody previously said they favored Rain Dogs on the basis that by then he had more time to grow into the new sound he was crafting and that Rain Dogs was less patchy (which I'm not sure if they meant in terms of consistancy of sound or just consistancy of performance), the lesser consistancy of sound of Swordfish is what is so great about that album to me [Holy run on sentence, sorry folks]. He pulls out the mush balladry of In The Neighborhood right next to the smoky storytelling of Frank's Wild Years right next to the xylophone jazz of Swordfishtrombones, I love it. Alice vs. Blood Money, the extreme theatrics of Alice (not to say that most Waits isn't big) win me over (and like someone said earlier, 'Alice' is just such an amazing track).

'Alice' = a rewrite of (or at least v. v. similar to) 'You Don't Know What Love Is'. Jordan, back me up.

I find him easier to admire than enjoy. An occasionally great lyricist but lyrics are not a big thing for me. There are a handful of earlier tracks eg (Blue Valentine, Invitation to the Blues) that I do genuinely love, but I don't much care for the sonic experimentation of Swordfishtrombones and beyond - there are occasional flashes of beauty but too much of it sounds contrived or forced. I'd still much rather listen to Waits than Nick Cave, though (or P J Harvey who also springs to mind in this context).

Classic classic classic. But with a new album due out this autumn, will he at last play a British gig?

Will he play any gigs AT ALL?

'Alice' = a rewrite of (or at least v. v. similar to) 'You Don't Know What Love Is'

Interesting! I haven't listened to Alice in awhile, but you might be OTM. There are lots of Waits songs that I've wanted to do jazz versions of since the changes are so standard-y.

May I throw in a good word for the live album Big Time.

It features genuinely fantastic versions of Big Black Mariah, 13 Shells.., Time & others. Marc Ribot's guitar playing and Michael Blair's drunken junkyard percussion are especially enjoyable.

That'll be '16 Shells...' then, soz

I can't say i'm a huge fan, I only own Saturday Night and Mule Variations. I love Saturday night. The music fits the lyrics. Does it matter whether it's a made up persona? Listening to that album is like opening up a book of stories and his character as a narrator blends in well with everything else. Im not in love with Mule variations, but i think several of the songs are good, and the sound of the music itself, the timbres, is pretty cool. neat vocal effects, and the bass and guitar are just spooky.