Freelance Hivemind: We Are Not Amused

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It's a bit odd for a broadsheet to require a local angle. At least it would be in the UK. Generally they specifically don't want it to be too parochial. I guess a couple of the Irish broadsheets are still quite city-focused (actually I don't even know what the fourth one is after the Times, the Independent and the Examiner).

Anyway I don't really have any expertise here but might as well chip in just to keep the thread alive. Do be on the lookout for features editors giving you the knockback on unsolicited copy and then nicking your ideas!

Maybe best to mail them (or talk to them if poss) and them send a CV with some of your previous stuff (music stuff and anything non-music you did for college paper or whatever) if they show interest?

Alba (Alba), Thursday, 17 August 2006 19:04 (seventeen years ago) link

(in my limited experience, I've found editors to be most keen on people they can trust to be around, flexible and able to file cleanish copy to deadline. People who make their lives easier. But that was reviewing more than feature writing)

Alba (Alba), Thursday, 17 August 2006 19:08 (seventeen years ago) link

Ronan, if they're asking about your background, it may just be to reassure themselves that you'll actually get the piece in, etc. etc. I wouldn't sweat it.

Rickey Wright (Rrrickey), Thursday, 17 August 2006 23:30 (seventeen years ago) link

Editors are sometimes just curious about where you're coming from, as it were, if they like your stuff and see potential . . .

Rickey Wright (Rrrickey), Thursday, 17 August 2006 23:39 (seventeen years ago) link

this is the best advice i've seen:

"Accumulate well-placed acquaintances. Turn nothing down.
-- Pete W (petershepherdwatt...), July 26th, 2006."

Bashment Jakes (Enrique), Friday, 18 August 2006 07:51 (seventeen years ago) link

Do be on the lookout for features editors giving you the knockback on unsolicited copy and then nicking your ideas!

I am really worried about this yes. So it does happen!

Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 18 August 2006 19:11 (seventeen years ago) link

Yup. A lot. Especially with the3 v1ll4ge and the editor's acolytes. He really has put the fear of fuck into them, cute really...

Kv_nol (Kv_nol), Saturday, 19 August 2006 01:15 (seventeen years ago) link

Accumulate well-placed acquaintances. Turn nothing down.

One time, I told a print broker "I'm sorry, I'm buried under other deadlines." Never heard from her again.

Danny Aioli (Rock Hardy), Saturday, 19 August 2006 03:03 (seventeen years ago) link

In my (US) experience, and there are exceptions, editors are happier if you send them ideas, not completed articles, as this allows them to flatter themselves that you are then writing the article with their publication in mind, not promiscuously sending something prewritten around to see where it sticks.

What about the days where you want to work but can't think of an idea and end up scouring the news sites?

Your subconscious is steeping new ideas while you scour. Alternately, call it a day after a few unproductive hours and do something concrete, like laundry.

Paul Eater (eater), Saturday, 19 August 2006 03:21 (seventeen years ago) link

something concrete, like laundry.

maybe you need to cut down on the starch?

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Saturday, 19 August 2006 08:21 (seventeen years ago) link

Oh yeah, one other thing, perhaps this is Alba's department.

Any advice with the Guardian? Is living here going to hamper me beyond having to make calls to Britain for the odd quote?

Just some of the pieces I've written are more like what the Guardian would print than the Irish papers, I fear.

Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 21 August 2006 10:07 (seventeen years ago) link

There is no "media" section in the IT or Examiner or Indo as far as I know.

Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 21 August 2006 10:08 (seventeen years ago) link

Good.

;p

Kv_nol (Kv_nol), Monday, 21 August 2006 10:11 (seventeen years ago) link

Sorry that was a kneejerk agains the media supplement thing, not about you, sorry.

Kv_nol (Kv_nol), Monday, 21 August 2006 10:12 (seventeen years ago) link

No reason I can see on holding back on trying to pitch to the Guardian, as far as I can see. You might always get someone thinking "he's in another country, what does he know?" but if you start worrying about reasons why people might potentially not want your stuff then you'll never get anything done. That's my no-longer-an-insider-and-never-really-was advice. Others (stelfox - does he still post anywhere?) might have more specific info.

Alba (Alba), Monday, 21 August 2006 10:16 (seventeen years ago) link

Hmmm, just saw the article I wanted to write is printed TODAY in the Guardian, by someone far more qualified and well known in the field than me.

Maybe it's best to stick to Irish papers since they can be relied upon to not be very up to date on new and interesting things.

Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 21 August 2006 10:25 (seventeen years ago) link

that bastard followed me to the Lake District

Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 21 August 2006 10:30 (seventeen years ago) link

Oh yeah one other thing, finally.

Is there any decent resource that gives info about who does what job in the papers, all in one place?

I've been just calling the newspapers and asking, which is fine, but it would be easier to just have a website or something.

Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 21 August 2006 10:45 (seventeen years ago) link

there is a book.

Bashment Jakes (Enrique), Monday, 21 August 2006 10:45 (seventeen years ago) link

Ah that makes sense, thanks alot.

Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 21 August 2006 10:53 (seventeen years ago) link

there ought to be a website though. obv positions change o'er the year. but it is infuriating how anon they keep themselves. i've had a couple of things published in an american magazine where i just straight pitched the editor -- and they replied. uk eds seem to do this only about 1/4 of the time.

Bashment Jakes (Enrique), Monday, 21 August 2006 10:55 (seventeen years ago) link

ronan: try to arrange face-to-face meetings with features editors if possible. hit them with as many ideas as possible, and be willing to take on commissions they might want you to write (although, in the current zero-cash climate, this is unlikely to happen).

just sending in the odd article here and there means you could end up being overlooked. pitching up with a stream of quality ideas and trying to cultivate some kind of relationship with commissioning editors is by far the best idea.

i know it's a truism, but don't give up or be disheartened. the best resource a freelance feature-writer can have is IDEAS.

x-post: er, two-step approach to success here involves 1) ringing up the paper in question and saying: "hello, what's the name and direct line of your features editor?" and 2) ringing them. rocket science, eh? o yeh: don't just rely on e-mail. always make a follow-up call.

grimly fiendish (grimlord), Monday, 21 August 2006 11:04 (seventeen years ago) link

Do you think it's best then to send just one mail with a couple of ideas? And not have the articles done? To sort of attempt to have them say "ok, can you write this article you suggested, here is how many words I want etc". that way seems to make sense since you tailor it for the publication automatically, tho I was writing the articles first, because in a way then I have a better idea of what I'm selling.

perhaps a combination of the two approaches is best.

i'm going to try and keep in contact with the two eds who replied, particularly the one who asked for other examples of my work, and see how that goes.

Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 21 August 2006 11:25 (seventeen years ago) link

in your case, ronan, you might be best to have finished articles to show them because you're an unknown quantity to them.

need to zoom to work now. will look back in here later. but yes, all yr approaches here seem sound.

grimly fiendish (grimlord), Monday, 21 August 2006 11:30 (seventeen years ago) link

jesus I just got an email back from one of the places I mailed, probably the one I'd most like to be printed in, saying they find it really interesting but want me to change it, with more quotes and a slightly different angle. then "can you do this for 12 tomorrow, let me know".

panic!

Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 28 August 2006 09:56 (seventeen years ago) link

do the best you can and send it back to them at 11:30, show you can turn copy around quickly

Ed (dali), Monday, 28 August 2006 10:08 (seventeen years ago) link

the problem is, he sort of faintly outlined suggestions for changes, then said "let me know how this seems to you", and I feel unsure as to whether I should say "yes this is great" and proceed, or quickly clarify what he wants a little. with the latter, I'm just afraid of seeming slow on the uptake in my questions, perhaps what he sees as obvious I amn't seeing. though I do generally understand his suggestions, obv this is a bit weird without the topic being known here.

Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 28 August 2006 10:12 (seventeen years ago) link

If you're not sure ring back and chat some more. He's asked you to do it now, so the important thing is doing it to his satisfaction. He's not going to care at all about spending a couple of minutes with you if it means he gets what he wants. Don't say "I don't understand, can you explain again?" – just make contact again like it's the most natural thing in the world to be continuing a dialogue about it.

Well done, by the way.

Alba (Alba), Monday, 28 August 2006 10:17 (seventeen years ago) link

He emailed me, so I guess I'll email back, it's easier to organise my thoughts in print I think.

Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 28 August 2006 10:27 (seventeen years ago) link

Good stuff Ro - and when they ask for changes just say 'fine' in a pleasant way and then ask for clarification if needed.

suzy (suzy), Monday, 28 August 2006 12:07 (seventeen years ago) link

The only other problem, I've just realised, is that it's a Bank Holiday in the UK so I'm going to have to contact any UK sources tomorrow from 9-12 and get it written up in that time. Makes it difficult to work on it today except this evening with American people I need to speak to.

I basically said in my email "yes I'm keen to make those changes and can do it for tomorrow at midday" then made my suggestions for what my idea of those changes was, he was quite general, so I said what I specifically planned to include and asked if this was what he wanted.

No reply, it was about an hour and a half ago, so I guess just keep going with my interpretation of what he asked for? Presuming he might not be rooted to the office seat on a Bank Holiday Monday.

Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 28 August 2006 12:16 (seventeen years ago) link

two weeks pass...
£60 a page? What the fuck is this, a magazine or a fanzine? There better be travel expenses in this one. Teach me to write about things I'm interested in rather than stuff that actually pays well.

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 11 September 2006 13:43 (seventeen years ago) link

retro gamer?

a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Monday, 11 September 2006 13:46 (seventeen years ago) link

Sssssshhhh.

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 11 September 2006 13:50 (seventeen years ago) link

oh right!

a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Monday, 11 September 2006 13:51 (seventeen years ago) link

http://www.squashsa.asn.au/images/Schweppes.gif

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 11 September 2006 13:51 (seventeen years ago) link

So.......here I am. It was a pretty severe edit which makes me a bit unhappy, and doesn't inspire me with confidence for future work, but I guess I should just enjoy this. Though....it's hard, some of the sentences at the end kinda stop making sense they're tweaked around and changed so much! Still I suppose editor knows best.

http://technology.guardian.co.uk/

Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 14 September 2006 07:53 (seventeen years ago) link

damn, currently on front-page banner

a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Thursday, 14 September 2006 08:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Just read that on the bus on the way into work - good work Ronan!

Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Thursday, 14 September 2006 08:32 (seventeen years ago) link

Well done! Glad to hear it. I thought it read very well. It's all a bit easier from now on I'd hope!

Kv_nol (Kv_nol), Thursday, 14 September 2006 09:27 (seventeen years ago) link

Well, whatever your ed did, the article flowed nicely to someone who hadn't seen orig copy and concomitant 'iceberg issues' and one would think the ed would use you again. Don't sweat it. Good intro etc.

Next step: Ro does an invoice to GNL (and no you don't get extra £££s for the front page stuff). Should get btwn £225-£300.

suzy (suzy), Thursday, 14 September 2006 09:47 (seventeen years ago) link

Ronan Fitzgerald examines the potential for abuse! (V cool)

I'm getting my first proper artwork for proper CD released soon. So far it's going pretty well but deadline is imminent and still loads of things to sort out. And I'm too scared to ask them how much they're going to pay me (or I'm going to have to pay them if it all goes tits up). Hoping it will lead to more tho.

Konal Doddz (blueski), Thursday, 14 September 2006 09:55 (seventeen years ago) link

Why would you have to pay?

Kv_nol (Kv_nol), Thursday, 14 September 2006 09:55 (seventeen years ago) link

if we're doing freelance circle-jerks now, i got 1x review in s1ght and s0und tomorrow, mini-rah.

a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Thursday, 14 September 2006 09:59 (seventeen years ago) link

Sort the money now or welcome to screwsville...

/voice of bitter experience

suzy (suzy), Thursday, 14 September 2006 10:46 (seventeen years ago) link

Is it bad form to phone up a guy who once interviewed you for a job, turned you down, and say "Hey, you know that other magazine you write for? The fuck is the phone number of their editor?"?

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 14 September 2006 10:51 (seventeen years ago) link

one month passes...
I quit my job, now I am freelance....I will need to be disciplined I guess. Do you guys give yourself a 9-5? Today is the first day of me not working, officially, but I was DJing till 3 last night and not home till 4, I didn't drink but am finding work today incredibly difficult, I need sleep badly while I'm still sick. What do you do on days like this? I've sort of decided to write up some interviews, something manual and easy, and maybe do other tasks like go to the bank etc...

Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 20 October 2006 12:18 (seventeen years ago) link

Ok another question, if anyone is reading...

At what point do you go "fuck it" and jettison an article? I spoke to my editor about it a month ago, had been working in my day job a lot, he said he thought it was a good idea and to give it a go, fairly non commital but he was interested.

Down the line I'm not sure it's actually going to work, but I really want to do it and deliver on the idea I had. Am I stupid for thinking it might look bad to just hit him with my other ideas now, which I do think are better. I just bit off a bit more than I could chew with idea 1, and now find myself unable to say what the piece is really about. I probably could finish a 1000 word draft of it but my gut feeling is that it's not really good enough.

Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 25 October 2006 09:16 (seventeen years ago) link


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