John Lennon/Plastic Ono Band

This thread needs reposting of
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVDpPX37fkU

Geirness is pain

New box set up on Spotify. I've only listened to a fraction of this, but hearing John, Ringo, Yoko and Klaus discuss arrangements of each song in the "Evolution Documentary" disc is a joy.

Haha these are so great. Ringo and John seem to be having a lot more fun than on those Fabs '69 out-takes, in fact Ringo barely speaks at all on those. Some of the songs on this album make it all sound so *easy*; Hold On especially, so it's a treat to hear they were actually enjoyable to make.

It’s wild to me how many takes they would do. Lennon’s talent and wit shines here ( he doesn’t sound nasty or irritated).

the episode of the song exploder podcast on 'god' is incredible. super highly recommended even if you do not like that podcast, because it's totally different from every other episode. just an awesome audio documentary on the making of the song with great archival interviews with john, ringo, klaus voorman, even john's psychologist arthur janov (john came up with the lyric 'god is a concept by which we measure our pain' during a therapy session) and clips from demos

https://songexploder.net/john-lennon

Earlier this year, I got an amazing email—the estate of John Lennon said that they have a treasure trove of audio material from his life, and they were wondering if I would be interested in making an episode around the song “God,” from John Lennon’s first solo album. I’ve never tried making a posthumous episode before, because hearing directly from the artist is at the heart of Song Exploder. But with all the interview archives that they have of him speaking, plus all the isolated tracks from the recordings, and the original demo, it actually seemed possible. So this is a very different and special episode of the show.

Cookieee

agreed

Hold on music A+
Lyrics C-

Still gets my pick for best on this album. Guitar has never sounded better before or since “hold on”

The cookie line bumps the lyrics from a d- to a c-

Every time I listen to hold on I think of sonic youths the diamond sea. One of the more distant pairings of instrumentally similar tracks in my mind

Coookie

Weird that “hold on” is on the bottom here and “isolation” won. They should switch places.

Looking at the tracklisting , song for song it's a very good album

Not just a great album, but it's the only solo Beatles LP that I would put on par with the Beatles' greatest work.

It competes with ATMP.

If I had to pick more genuine favorites, I'd probably include All Things Must Pass (minus the bonus disc of jams), the U.S. version of Band on the Run (minus "No Words"), Run Devil Run and some sort of hybrid of Chaos & Creation... and Memory Almost Full that pulls the best material from both albums.

it's no wild life. i'll take mumbo over mother any day

lennon really painted himself into a corner with the persona he established on/around this album

yoko's why and why not do for me what the first couple of tracks on this seem to do for everyone else - i guess they're supposed to mirror each other but the existentialism seems to come easier to her and she doesn't sound like she's swallowed a bunch of psychobabble - i'm sure she had done irl but she knows how to show not tell in a way he can't at this point

lennon really painted himself into a corner with the persona he established on/around this album

How do you define existentialism and how does it work itself out on this album?

This isn't any more on par with the Beatles than Ram. Two very different sides of a coin. Both very much a distillation of its creator's mindset at the time.

Lennon is introspective, sonically naked raw, existentially terrified, solitary and frazzled.

McCartney is extroverted, escapist, maximalist, feigning wild-eyed joie de vivre through a thinly-veiled vindictiveness.

Both are war-torn, cut to ribbons. Keen to show they don't need their old family because they have a new one, which they rely on greatly.

Except for the first and last tracks, I can barely stand Ram. A lot of it's just flat out irritating.

Nah it's all great.

It's just a total vibe all the way through. The only thing I can compare it to is maybe Skylarking by XTC

I love Skylarking but Ram has just way too many annoyances. Ever been around a peer or a performer who thinks they're doing a funny bit, particular a musical bit, that's really irritating and unfortunately they just keep doing it without getting the hint? That's what it feels like when I'm listening to Ram. I know Paul's used that voice on "Monkberry Moon Delight" before, but it was usually for a line or too, which was totally fine - stretched out over an entire song, it's f-ing irritating. "Uncle Albert" has a vast array of annoying vocal effects, a candidate for the worst #1 record I've ever heard from a major recording artist. And it just goes on and on..."Heart of the Country" is pleasant if inconsequential, "Smile Away" could be fun if I'm in the right mood, but the rest is the pits.

"Too Many People" and "Back Seat of My Car" is excellent - that would make a great double A-side single. If it was 1971 and I bought that 45, I would've bought Ram the next day with high expectations, and I would've been mightily disappointed.

your ram take is so 1971

xps I didn't mean existentialism really I meant "the existential" gestures vaguely at world - which I hear JL reaching for with a bunch of words and yoko achieving far more profoundly with one

I continue to be baffled by the love for lennon at his most whatever this is - to be nice it's a well made product, his voice sounds good for maybe the last time, it clearly means a lot to people so I'm trying not to be too rude about it

I’m with you Left. Let it rip, Lennon needed to make starting over 100x instead. Captured his “whatever this is”, but with some sincerity and heart rather than pretension and teenage naivety (in its negative sense)

So a lot of people found the same album irritating in 1971 as well - so what? I'm open to hearing a more convincing argument for Ram, but I've yet to hear one - is there something more than inspiring others to make homemade whimsical recordings?

Re: Plastic Ono Band, Yoko may have steered Lennon in that direction, but it's inherently an intensely personal work. That extends to everything he struggles with or references, and how he deals with it is going to be different than anyone else - Yoko's great as well but they previously lived two very different lives with different traumas and grew through different art forms. There's a lot going on in both of their works that's theirs to deal with alone, and it only makes sense to compare the two to a point.

if good pop music isn't a convincing enough argument - I'm not the most hardcore ramhead but someone who is bothered could make a case for it being just as personal as POB if you deconstruct the various facades the mccartneys play with

POB has personal elements but it's also a performance that gives off a vibe of putting it all out there while actually holding a lot back which is a very clever art trick that also feels somewhat disingenuous to me. the famous rolling stone interview is similar in this way but a lot worse

Disclosure as concealment strategy is almost a way of life for me

Lol, A+.

With McCartney, I don't think his best solo work is necessarily the result of personal exploration. There are exceptions - my favorite album, Run Devil Run, came out of his return to music after a period of mourning, and most of his love songs are obviously about Linda, though their quality is all over the map. Otherwise, I think his best solo cuts like his singles usually come out of expert craft. Some of his more "personal" songs from his solo career can sound mawkish or disappointingly bland to me, but then again Paul has addressed this when talking about the difference between him and John. John had a much tougher upbringing and struggled with a lot, that's partly why it's been a potent inspiration for him. Paul frames that difference as saying he's grateful he's a happier person for having had less difficulty in his upbringing. So if working at a catchy tune proves more fruitful than exploring his own happy marriage, that's fine with me.

I'm not a big fan of music (or really any art form) finding ostensible value purely from voyeurism. That's one of the difficult tricks about making intensely personal art, how to make it more about exhibitionism, but I think the great ones manage to become universal even when they look deeply inward - Long Day's Journey into Night is the first thing that comes to mind, and I find a lot of that in POB. Even when he's trying to lift himself up or burying himself deep in his love (for Yoko), those are paths and rituals anyone can take with their own lives.

Actually fudged something because it's late and I need to go to bed - I didn't mean to suggest that lifting himself up and finding solace in his love was a commonality the album had with O'Neill's play, which is not something you'll find there. (However, the resentments and pain found within a damaged family is something both works do share.)

Great post birdistheword. Was talking about this point with a friend the other day, comparing Neil young and Jason Molina. Neil, even on a song as blatantly autobiographical as “don’t be denied” never seems egotistical/always touches the universal in a way Molina aspires to, but doesn’t reach with such consistency. This is my issue with POB, its spirit is too solipsistic. I find the music interesting, but I don’t like the personality which burdens itself upon it

POB has personal elements but it's also a performance that gives off a vibe of putting it all out there while actually holding a lot back which is a very clever art trick that also feels somewhat disingenuous to me.

I.e. art?

The definition of "personal" and the admiration of "personal" art strikes me as remarkable in 2023, and I post it without condescension: I didn't expect it.

I think he’s is saying that Lennon is disingenuous stating “look at me naked” when really he’s wearing a very fancy coat and it’s a bit awkward and uncomfortable.

Personal is too flimsy a word. The personal can make great art, and terrible art. It’s a matter of whether you can communicate something pure through your personhood, and that purity is often tarred by vain overindulgence. Lennon has always come off as overindulgent to me. Track number 1 on this album case in point.

Mother vs Julia

Both intensely personal, one screeches, expresses an insularity, communicating this is my experience alone and I live on this island no one may dock at (so why record it?), the other speaks outside of itself and so allows the listener to partner with the personality, considering their own relationship with their mother, consider their object of love, consider the love their actions seek

“When I cannot sing my heart, I can only speak my mind”

More singing, less speaking

expresses an insularity, communicating this is my experience alone and I live on this island no one may dock at

It does?

Could you talk to a bloke singing that outro?

Is there a thread for “songs to never sing at karaoke”?

(xp) Sure, why not?

Got more patience than me

POB's use of echo acts as the essential distancing device: I hear a series of performances by a guy almost as alien as Bowie would be.

Is there a thread for “songs to never sing at karaoke”?

Performative is a good description of this album