PJ Harvey : Classic or Dud

- revive a thread after nine months
- never mention her music or anything but attractiveness
- ah now she is worth discussing because i finally found her cute

so, yes

That's assuming her cuteness was the entire point of sharing. Could have just as well been a side note. Second video had no mention of cuteness.

Ship's computer: lock brain, please.

evan it's nice that you want to give this guy the benefit of the doubt but maybe giving the artist the benefit of thinking that she, you know, exists outside of what men think of her would be helpful too

i don't understand why 'don't be a sexist jerk' is such a hard thing for men to comprehend

Maybe we can talk about this (the music, that is), probably my favourite PJH youtube clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCruBKDt5Ys

This cuts to the bone and gives me chills every time I watch it. I love the crowd response in the last fifteen seconds of the song, they know they've seen something epic.

oh god enablers like evan are as bad as sexists like outdoorfish, what is wrong with you

Yeah, obviously I hate the music. I am also a fan of simpletons.

Enabler, facilitator or apologist?

enablers like me are just as bad as sexists, who we are totally 100% positive are sexists based on half sentences. how about let's not be horribly negative people and at least try to get a little tiny bit more information before we call everyone a fucking full blown sexist AND say that everyone who says "whoa, hold on a second" just as bad??

I get it, you really WANT to believe outdoorfish isn't a fan at all, but now he stumbles upon a clip of pj harvey in a yellow dress and checks his dick to see whether he should give her a chance.

maybe, this is crazy because I know his blood test came back sexist, but maybe he is just a fan of her music already and wanted to share a clip and add "she's particularly cute in this clip" and just chose poor wording. Is that possible? because it's worth getting a little more info before you call someone a sexist over admitting they hadn't found someone cute before. Plus, the next clip wasn't all "check out her titties in this one" it was "I was at this show!" I'm pretty sure that's enough to assume the entire reason for sharing was most likely not to talk about how attractive she is and how much more important that is than her great music

maybe he is just a fan of her music already and wanted to share a clip and add "she's particularly cute in this clip" and just chose poor wording

Uh...your putative alternate isn't much better?

You can't mention you find someone cute in any way?

No, we live in a world of unbridled hypocrisy.

You can't mention you find someone cute in any way?

― Evan,

- revive a thread after nine months
- never mention her music or anything but attractiveness
- ah now she is worth discussing because i finally found her cute

so, yes

― mookieproof,

No, we live in a world of unbridled hypocrisy and sheep-like behaviour.

- never mention her music or anything but attractiveness
- ah now she is worth discussing because i finally found her cute

Are we sure these two are exactly the case?

Such bold truths being told.

Exhibit A:
Kessler is hot and probably doesn't have the clap so there's that!

― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 1 May 2014 19:31 (4 months ago) Permalink

Just trying to give the benefit of the doubt, that's all. I don't like to assume the worst in people without a certain amount of information.

behind everyone doing something sexist or racist or homophobic will always be some clichéd idiot saying "WAIT DON'T JUDGE THEM"

PJ's general appearance/demeanor isn't "cute". I'd describe her stage presence as compelling, commanding, mysterious. At least every time I've seen her. In this video, she looks cute. She's having fun, smiling. Like a young Linda Ronstadt almost.

God, I want that Firebird.

behind everyone doing something sexist or racist or homophobic will always be some clichéd idiot saying "WAIT DON'T JUDGE THEM"

― lex pretend, Thursday, September 18, 2014 8:32 AM (19 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I'm an idiot? You're right, I should judge people when I have sufficient information. Let me try. You're an asshole.

Fun!

Behind every witch-hunt there's always some cliched idiot who rushed to condemn without sufficient evidence

Who is that Macklemore-looking dude playing bass and what's with that gold knob on the horn?

now that's a lead.

good fucking god, saying "judging a woman on whether she gives you a boner or not" is sexist does not amount to a bloody witch hunt, get over yourselves

Who is that Macklemore-looking dude playing bass

Simon 'Dingo' Archer; AFAIK she borrowed him from The Fall for the 2004 tour.

Cool! Thanks.

I miss her power trio.

Me too. I was at this show, right up in front; when this song kicked in, the crowd surged forward, and those of us up against the stage obviously had nowhere to go. I had bruises on my stomach for weeks afterward.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cEw8nMfzI8

It was a good show, but at the time the band members seemed remote from one another. I later read that they'd decided to break up earlier in the tour, but stayed together to finish out the dates.

Bruises?! That's nuts!

Yeah, it was pretty scary, actually. After this song, a bunch of us in the front retreated to the back of the crowd and exchanged "Are you OK?"s. Lots of crowd-surfing at this show, too, which was really annoying.

Almost forgot to mention, Scrawl was one of the openers! They killed, but the crowd wasn't that into them for some reason.

Man, Scrawl ...

this thread is a fine example of What It Feels Like For A Woman Who Talks About Music Online, so thanks for that dudes

All I wanted to do was have you consider that outdoorfish was perhaps not evaluating PJ Harvey entirely on her looks based on that comment alone. I wasn't defending the general act of evaluating someone entirely on their looks, or based on what men think, or whatever else.

Jfc

oh evan. oh, oh, oh, evan.

*considers, rolls eyes, goes back to thinking about "To Bring You My Love" instead of this nonsense*

like... not to be all proprietary but the problem here is that the discussion of her looks was what LED the discussion, even though her MUSIC is, you know, next-level

i know that you probably have zero idea of what it means like to be a woman, so here's a thought experiment: imagine having every endeavor you do viewed through a prism of whether or not you are "cute" or "fuckable" or etc. that atmosphere is what makes 'well-meaning' comments like outdoorsfish's - especially when viewed in light of reams of galleries of female musicians that put their looks first, and thinkpieces that wax poetic on artists' 'sexiness' in such a way to make their music incidental and oh, so much more - utterly toxic and worthy of being called out, good intentions or no.

i mean ffs it's not like she doesn't explicitly reference this bullshit double standard in her work or anything

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuJE40OBt48

"never really found her cute, before this..." is such a hideous, indefensible sentiment, even if evan is somehow tuned to the total cerebral network of outdoorfish

it's really all in the ellipses

I'm just overly optimistic about people. I was considering that it may have been poor wording. I get it.

I'm just overly optimistic about people. I was considering that it may have been poor wording. I get it.

― Evan, Thursday, September 18, 2014 10:31 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

haha fuck off and die

Sure!

it does make sense that the logical conclusion of pollyannaism is to render oneself utterly, wilfully blind to the structural inequalities and specific dickishness arising thereof in the world

I just needed a little more evidence. "Utterly, wilfully blind" is a bit of an exaggeration.

I know saying I'm overly optimistic sounds self congratulatory, I didn't mean it like that. Can we not ask someone to fuck off and die?

pretty please?

i didn't ask