♥☮☯♫ PC MUSIC ♫☯☮♥ ☺☺☺ ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°✌

This is a bit like the "death to false metal" brigade hating on, I dunno, Dragonforce or whoever. Separating the fact that there is little in the music to suggest irony or contempt of anything, it's totally illogical that these people would spend this amount of care and attention on supposedly dissing something they hate via microscopically altering its elements.

basically, this sounds like some bad dave eggers "the circle" level satire of pop stars in 2014:

"So what, or who, is QT? She’s a sparkling future pop sensation - albeit one who is set to warp and stretch the notion of what a pop star actually is. It’s a drink, or more precisely a brand new Energy Elixir ("where organic and synthetic meet to stimulate an uplifting club sensation")."

Meanwhile Grimes tweets that she like a Supertramp song and the indie crew fall over themselves high-fiving each other about what a card she is.

There's the branding/aesthetic LOGO Magazine/Diamond Wright aspect which is common across all the PC Music roster, but that's just one aspect. This is more about demarcating a kind of pop futurism, everything super HD shiny and non-natural.

also if you want to find people disdainful of successful pop music look at any comments section of any article about pop music ever published, it's like shooting very indignant fish in an artisanal barrel. or pitchfork's facebook page/mentions etc.

"She’s a sparkling future pop sensation - albeit one who is set to warp and stretch the notion of what a pop star actually is."

hatsune miku vibes from this whole thing

xpost Posting an online comment = easy. Creating a super-cool range of songs with associated imagery, branding and marketing that all informs the aesthetic = hard. Also hard - keeping it positive and uncynical, which I believe all the acts mentioned so far on this thread do.

I guess that's where we disagree, then, because I can't help but see this entire enterprise as profoundly cynical. difficulty has nothing to do with that. it would help if the creators talked about hey qt et al as if they were actual people rather than pre-manufactured entities ("what is a solange" etc) and if I didn't get the sense that Hannah Diamond is going to turn out, if she isn't already, as far less famous/wealthy/on track for a career than the producer bros here. everyone went apeshit over that farrah abraham album and look what it did for her.

Must be hard for you to enjoy any female singers if you're going to wring your hands over the producers making $$$. Anyway, Hannah Diamond's music career looks to me to be her own thing - an accessory to her photography/design career. http://diamondwright.info/

So far on this thread we've had comparisons with Aqua, David Eggers and Farrah Abraham. And you're calling THIS cynical. LOL.

Contemptuous, cynical and disdainful has been done perfectly well already. It's played out in this scene. If anything this is a reaction against that.
eg.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GR7m2asp09o

One of the GFOTY mixes includes a Toy-Box track, that's practically an endorsement of Aqua innit?

I didn't make the Aqua comparison, but I think it's generally fair given how un-seriously people take Lene Nystrøm's career. The Eggers comparison is fair in that he's also a generally talented and well-read guy (no one is saying these guys aren't either) who wrote one very bad book of obvious, surface-level satire, and Farrah Abraham is fair in that she is also someone who recorded a pop album (if perhaps under different circumstances) people got into for the ironic lulz -- which, as it turns out, doesn't actually help an artist make money or have a career.

as for the "hard for you to enjoy any female singers," that would be a valid argument if Taylor Swift or Ariana Grande or whoever released music and anyone outside the Cheiron Studios fan forums talked about the music like "yet another slam-dunk from Shellback!" that said, for rising pop singers this does tend to be the case (if they're talked about at all), and it bugs me then too -- and you know, it'd just be cool if people trying to create some kind of ironic/alternative version of the pop machine wouldn't replicate its worst traits.

basically, I just don't enjoy cynicism! it's possible for this to be done well and not be cynical -- the josie and the pussycats soundtrack, a lot of vocaloid, at least interpreted by fans (Miriam Stockley's a voice for one); it usually involve the songs still pretty much working as pop songs. it's even possible for this to be cynical as hell and still be OK (among the most probably-embarrassing tracks I think are kinda OK: Cora Corman's "Slam" from "Music and Lyrics") for me, this isn't either.

(also, before anyone accuses me of coming into a thread and shitting on everything, I gave "attachment" a 6/10 and "pink and blue" was OK too; it's just when these guys start getting into the faux-satirical fake-pop fake-teen stuff like Lipgloss Twins and Hey QT that it puts me off.)

'Pink and Blue' seems closer to satire than 'Hey QT' to me.

xpost. I dunno, I can barely connect any of that with the actual music we're discussing. There's no-one on this thread giving it a thumbs-up who says they are into for "the ironic lulz". I said I thought Attachment was beautiful and I mean it. This music is not supposed to be satirical. "Meta" maybe. There is playfulness but it's not disdainful of anything.

I mean, accusing pop music of authenticity is a classic rockist thing. Can hardly be bothered addressing that. You don't dig it, fine.

"lack of authenticity" rather.

it's less authenticity I care about (I just admitted to liking the deliberately shitty "pop" songs from music & lyrics fuck's sake) than... I guess we're right back to "contempt," because the more I hear and read the clearer that sense becomes for me.

Google tells me that you are talking about a Hugh Grant romantic comedy film. I don't think that's necessarily relevant.

I was suspicious only initially (with 'Pink and Blue' and the LOGO aesthetics) but the more I hear I go the other way. The $eriou$ Thug$ stuff you could probably go more that way with if you wanted, but probably for more white hipster rapper reasons.

are the vocalists on sophie's singles credited anywhere

the way his producer name invites casual listeners to think that "sophie" is the person in the press photos/singing the songs combined with the QT press release raving about the producers and speaking about the vocalist as if she is an inanimate object weirds me out

not hating just saying

feel a lot of katherine's points itt

I think Cornelius fans might find a lot to like here.

deeply sorry i called u all 'wankerz' even tho i was expressly not talking about the intentions of the creators of this music, who are surely very respectful of & passionately into the influences that they wear on their sleeves -- even if the writing used to market their music is a bit cynical as katherine pointed out. not that it matters but as i stated upthread i do like some of this music ('bipp' was my most-played track of last year) & i am a huge fan of a lot of the music in the aqua/toy-box/crispy/smile.dk/papaya/bambee vein that quite clearly seems to inform some of it.

Katherine I am disagreein' w you so hard but am enjoying yr contributions to this thread.

basically, this sounds like some bad dave eggers "the circle" level satire of pop stars in 2014:

"So what, or who, is QT? She’s a sparkling future pop sensation - albeit one who is set to warp and stretch the notion of what a pop star actually is. It’s a drink, or more precisely a brand new Energy Elixir ("where organic and synthetic meet to stimulate an uplifting club sensation")."

My best friend who was also my boyfriend for 10 months is v much into this stuff and would totally write something like this super earnestly w/o any cynicism. It's just weird and inaccessible but I think easily parsed as cynicism

xp to my post above, as a sidenote re: that particular segment of hyper-cute bubblegum pop, some of it actually was created with purely cynical intentions. one example:

In the meantime I had done an assignment on europop hits on the Conservatory. I had always been fascinated by hits. How come one song makes a hit single and another does not? As part of the assignment I had to try and write a europop hit sounding like Aqua, which became "Mr. Wam bam boogie". A very light pop tune with a clear irony towards europop. Nevertheless it was recorded and released by Norwegian singer Bambee on the album "On ice" (CNR/Arcade, 1999). My first official release, but very contrary to my agelong musical principles and ideas of good music in general.

(that particular song was not a hit)

but in general i never felt uncomfortable w/ this music b/c it general was not marketed disdainfully or appreciated 'ironically' by the ppl who liked it

not exactly sold on a vaporwave/nightcore/girl talk-ified version of the popjustice aesthetic.

Funny thing is that Popjustice didn't like the track.

Maybe this is juvenilia or whatever from before they fully put together their style & design aesthetic (the fact that it's one of the only tracks not downloadable from their Soundcloud maybe bears this out? or maybe there's a hard limit on # of downloads and it's just been there the longest, I don't know) but <a href="http://brokenflowers.pcmusic.info/";>Broken Flowers</a> doesn't feel even a little bit insincere, mocking or cynical to me.

rgh
broken flowers

yeah some of the early stuff barely really fits in with what has actually gotten pc music to be (somewhat) popular

Liking fun pop music sure seems like a lot of work

Things were simpler when we were rockists.

what's the eggers book consisting "of obvious, surface-level satire"?

https://tmbgsongaday.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/mcsweeneys.png?w=640&h=392&crop=1

pop music altered to heighten the feeling of alienating uncanny valley surrealism

Haha this GFOTY mix is mad :D

think I could get with this in a fairly major way - I don't even care if it's impishly playing with convention while obviously enjoying itself; oh no my sainted Pop is being deconstructed! oh no! stop this! etc

it would help if...I didn't get the sense that Hannah Diamond is going to turn out, if she isn't already, as far less famous/wealthy/on track for a career than the producer bros here.

this is possibly the most repulsive sentiment I've read on ILM in a very long time

hey qt is great fun ofc; it's also p good songwriting. jfc i can't get over that post i just quoted though

if only "hey qt" worked as pop (it doesn't, it's a parody of everything mockable about teenpop stereotypes). it sort of reminded me of that terrible kid606 remix album of missy from circa 2001. no, i want to hear MISSY, not missy rendered unlistenable bc you think it's wacky or she's lacking in obvious strangeness.

pop regularly does a pretty good job of deconstructing itself tbh, this is only for people who need the comfort blanket of it being not-pop

QT might be OK if the vocals weren't embarrassingly tacky.

Serious Thugs = worst thing of all time

The jpop influences/kinship kind of seem more pronounced than any teenpop parodying.

I really like this. So simple.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaV_Z2a_ZLM

This stuff is what the new Rustie album should have been.

That's a total fucking banger tbf

the book is "The Circle", I have no idea what the fuck is so repulsive about that statement

Its a statement that is more about the world than the particulars of anything to do with this thread

Hannah Diamond, A. G. Cook and SOPHIE are all on PC Music so if there's a way that this is unrelated to the thread I'd love to hear it

What about PC Music makes you think that the female contigent therein are more likely to be marginalised/under-rewarded than anyone else? Is this to do with them, or the culture in which they are received?

I am trying to understand what you are trying to say.

it's just a sneaking suspicion, it's not a Grand Statement. but it's my impression of the coverage of "Attachment" et al and how it differs from the coverage of other acts who are being covered for the alt-pop crowd, people like, I dunno, Allie X or LIZ or even Ryn Weaver (although my gut sense is that she's probably being marketed to more of a mainstream pop crowd, and even she's got her share of coverage that's like "BENZEL! CASHMERE CAT! CHARLI XCX! andnoneforgretchenweaverbye" although part of that might just be SEO). when the interviews for whichever EP or album coalesces from this come in, I'd be surprised if they didn't turn out to be pretty much what I expect (see: "the way his producer name invites casual listeners to think that "sophie" is the person in the press photos/singing the songs combined with the QT press release raving about the producers and speaking about the vocalist as if she is an inanimate object weirds me out"). if I think of everything in press terms it's because this is what I do for at least part of a living, and it doesn't switch off.

once again, this is just a small side suspicion, and people who are paying attention rather than declaring everything repulsive will note that none of this has made me hate the music yet.

let's ignore press terms and hear it on the artist's:

AGC: What interests me about pop music and commercial imagery in the first place is that it has the potential to be overwhelming, extravagant and banal all at the same time. Not only that, but mixing "high culture" with pop culture has lost its radical edge to the extent that it's more or less mainstream. Challenging something's commercial nature is a commercial tactic in itself, and authenticity is a tricky currency that is often swayed by branding and advertising. I have nothing against this, and many people respond to this kind of stuff in a sophisticated way. Though it means that there is room for a subtler and possibly more compelling way of engaging with these ideas, where shock value and direct irony is replaced with ambiguity and uncanniness. My work's constant use of instantly gratifying elements such as kitsch imagery, catchy hooks, synthetic colours and fun sound effects feels inevitable, it's almost a compulsion rather than a choice. Saying that, I try to be thoughtful as to how and why I'm using these things, and I think my over-the-top use of structure and layout is a result of this. It's also what makes the work feel ambiguous. It's sort of communicating something, but there's all this extra stuff going on. By the time you try to figure out what it's about, you've entered a sort of immersive world of ideas and references. Making it difficult to navigate not only adds to this effect, but it's also a way of giving it the overwhelming, extravagant and banal potential of commercial work. It's a particular style of craftsmanship that I could perhaps afford to ignore if I ever ended up doing large-scale commercial work, but it's definitely a way of making a bigger impact with limited resources, like a virtuoso playing on a simple instrument or an outsider artist obsessively using a tiny object to make an enormous piece. Maybe it gives my work a kind of manic individual quality, despite the fact that it's also basically a slick collage.

I'd like my pop without first-year art student blather.

I do! Well I like PC anyway.

I like both. But don't like posting on here that much right now. And that's fine / and here's why

fair enough. this album is incredible anyway. great pop music. good job hannah diamond

Gorgeous record

yeah this is a really wonderful record. her human vocaloid schtick is still pretty goofy but she's making pure pop here, working with gamson was such a great move

my only complaint is i wish it were just the slightest bit bolder around the edges which is a funny complaint about a pc music album lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSpkrDDNM_Q

this is the kesha demo that became "want you to know"

haha, in a way i love that it's not adding much new but concentrating on just being an incredibly well-constructed and thoughtful labour of love, so much obviously went into this

the hannah diamond album is so wonderful

ivy on boooard

As someone who has only had a passing interest in PC Music over the years but has got more and more into the stuff I have heard, can I just say, “Wow” to most of this thread. What a wild and stupid ride full of dreadful opinions.

It's great, isn't it?

I mean, I would like to point out I probably said loads of daft rubbish myself in amongst generally being on the RIGHT SIDE OF MUSIC HISTORY, lol

I think I first started proplely posting on ILM to talk about Hey QT, it was a bit of a tough start!

*properly

Reading back to the start of the thread, the main problem is people assuming that the whole scene was based around multiple layers of irony, kind of a staggering misreading. Even in 2014 it should have been clear that the core of the movement was this love of the texture & feel of supposedly cheap late 90s pop and appreciating it in a playful, experimental way. The 90s were of course a time when everything was suffused with irony, usually in the most tedious way possible, so I guess it's understandable to be suspicious if that's where you started out, but if people can't give the benefit of the doubt to any new genre when it comes along, then that's just sad.

Think there was kind of a sea change when SOPHIE came out with It's OK To Cry.

Christ, I was an objectionable fucker back in the mid 10s. Not completely wrong but oh god

i think trap queen is awful & boring

this is the single worst and wrongest thing i posted itt tho

lesson: don't read old posts, ever

the thing about pc music is they put out brilliance and garbage in about equal measure so basically everyone was at least kinda right

like gfoty... lol

you leave my queen alone!!!

ufo otm
altho i liked both still lol

I will add I have definitely posted many of my own awful and bad opinions on this borad back in the day, hopefully not too many the older I’ve got :D

GFOTY is/was good, Secret Mix is a brilliant piece of music, and Don't Wanna/Let's Do It.

New A.G. Cook today, I love it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kH2wQ5speuU