― John (jdahlem), Thursday, 16 September 2004 14:45 (nineteen years ago) link
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 16 September 2004 15:03 (nineteen years ago) link
― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 16 September 2004 15:14 (nineteen years ago) link
ONSIX Gallery @ Club Six60 Sixth St7:00pm- 2:00amFree B4 9pm$5 after
The Photographers:Hunter Burgan (AFI)Alex BaleAmy ThompsonLindsey ByrnesJay DabrowkaEve EkmanChris FitzpatrickDanielle GrahamJohn GroshongHeather Hannoura (ALKALINE TRIO)Torrey HerbenarEthan IndorfJason McAfeeValery MilovicLuke Ogden (THRASHER MAGAZINE)Ray Potes (HAMBURGER EYES)Brett Reed (RANCID)Paul SchiekDave SchubertShamSilverTabitha Soren (MTV NEWS)Katy Zaugg.
LIVE PERFORMANCES BY:The Vice&The Peelsplus DJ Cliff Huxtable
Should I bring my 1st edition of Moneyball?
― gygax! (gygax!), Saturday, 18 September 2004 17:07 (nineteen years ago) link
― mattbot (mattbot), Saturday, 18 September 2004 20:35 (nineteen years ago) link
HeadshotLogo
A's general manager Billy Beane, a master at building winning teams on shoestring budgets, spoke with Insider Ken Rosenthal in an interview that will air for the first time Sunday on FOX Sports Net Across America.
TSN: Compare this year's A's team to the past four that made it to the postseason.BB: This is probably the most resilient team we've had since I've been here. It's probably been the most consistent one. We've had more injuries this year than we've had in previous years. But yet these guys have been very consistent. They haven't had the great runs, nor have they had the times where they've struggled for two or three weeks.
TSN: Strong second halves have been the hallmark of your A's teams. How have they come about?BB: It always starts with having good starting pitching, and we've had good, young starting pitching. We've always made adjustments in the middle of the season, and I think youth helps a lot. I remember in 2000 we made the playoffs, and people were saying the team wouldn't make the playoffs because the starting pitching was too young. We took the reverse approach, thinking, wouldn't you rather have young starting pitching so you'd maintain their health and they'd get better as the season went along?
We made the playoffs in 2000 on the last pitch of the last game of the season. When you're out by eight games in August and you overtake a team, you understand what a 162-game season means. There's really no panic in these guys. It's a pretty battle-tough group.
TSN: Some thought the fallout from last year's book Moneyball would make it difficult for you to make trades. Has that been true?BB: No. We've probably made as many trades as anybody. This is a business where people are trying to improve themselves. There's only 29 people we can deal with, and that's the same as every other G.M. If you start eliminating possibilities for improving your team, you're probably doing your franchise and the city you represent a disservice.
TSN: For many, the way you run the A's boils down to statistical analysis vs. traditional scouting. Is it that cut-and-dried?BB: I don't spend a lot of time trying to decide. J.P. Ricciardi (now the Blue Jays' G.M.) was my righthand guy, he was my scout. One of the best scouts in the industry. The idea that we don't rely on that in Oakland is foolish. To not take advantage of every piece of information is foolish, and for us, it's all about risk management and probabilistic decision-making.
TSN: For all the talk of stressing on-base percentage, the A's wouldn't be the A's if you hadn't drafted Hudson, Mulder and Zito. How much luck is involved when three such draft picks become your foundation?BB: Any time you're dealing with the amateur draft, you're going to need some luck. Understand, too, they're college pitchers from high-profile programs, which is what we do draft. Is there luck? No question, but understand that's our approach.
TSN: Ever dream about a $183 million payroll?BB: That might be too much. I might tell them to keep a little bit. The perfect amount of money to work with, it's not the top and it's not the bottom. If you took the major league average, that would be the ideal payroll to deal with. It keeps you disciplined, and you do get to make great decisions. Look at a club like St. Louis. To me, that's the perfect situation to deal with.
― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 20 September 2004 20:53 (nineteen years ago) link
― jonathan quayle higgins (j.q. higgins), Tuesday, 21 September 2004 13:07 (nineteen years ago) link
― mattbot (mattbot), Tuesday, 21 September 2004 20:03 (nineteen years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 22 September 2004 09:57 (nineteen years ago) link
― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 24 February 2005 19:37 (nineteen years ago) link
― Inhuman in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 24 February 2005 21:12 (nineteen years ago) link
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 24 February 2005 21:23 (nineteen years ago) link
La Russa's response to 'Moneyball'
By Bill Kolb
CONTRA COSTA TIMES
It's about a three-game series between the St. Louis Cardinals and the Chicago Cubs in the heat of an August pennant race. It's about the distillation of one man's 40-plus year career in baseball into a series, a season, and 270 potent pages.
It's not a response to Michael Lewis' "Moneyball". It offers glaring counterpoints to "Moneyball", directly and indirectly, at almost every turn.
Buzz Bissinger's latest offering, "Three Nights in August: Strategy, Heartbreak, and Joy Inside the Mind of a Manager," can accurately be described in two words: delightfully contradictory.
Or contradictorily delightful. You pick.
"Three Nights," a Houghton Mifflin publication scheduled to hit stores April 4, is the product of a collaboration between longtime major league manager Tony La Russa and Bissinger, author of the critically acclaimed "Friday Night Lights" and a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist.
Let's start with the title: "Three Nights in August." Yes, the three-game Cardinals-Cubs series comprises the underlying framework of the book. No, it is not really about that series.
Bissinger uses the trials and tribulations experienced by La Russa and the Cardinals in the course of that series to extrapolate larger, more general observations about the game and life from a man who has managed almost continuously in the major leagues for over 25 seasons with the White Sox, A's and Cardinals, and has won one World Series and five Manager of the Year awards.
Despite his exhortation in the book's prologue that, "This book is not conceived as a response to 'Moneyball,'" Bissinger, ostensibly with La Russa's approval, goes on to mitigate some of the supposed absolutes extolled by Billy Beane in Lewis' work.
"La Russa appreciated the information generated by computers," Bissinger writes. "He studied the rows and columns. But he also knew they could take you only so far in baseball, maybe even confuse you in a fog of overanalysis."
La Russa embraces the humanity of the players for whom he is responsible, asserts that they are more than just statistical sets to be plugged into the grand equation of the game.
Chances are you will walk away from the book with a handful of new insights into the mind of a successful major league manager, and a fresh look at some of the opportunity costs of living the life of a "baseball man" -- things like family and a personal life.
You'll re-examine the hit-and-run through La Russa's eyes, maybe start to think about pitchers, pitching and the starting rotation in a new light.
You'll also have a new grasp on some of the non-baseball issues modern managers have to deal with, and how they handle baseball's archetypal problem children like the pouting bench player and the nonchalant superstar.
Your distaste for Jose Canseco -- whom La Russa calls "the most talented player he has ever managed" -- if it hasn't already hit rock bottom, likely will deepen. Your appreciation for the work ethic and drive of "The Great" Albert Pujols -- "the best player (La Russa) has ever managed" -- will soar, even if La Russa's likening of Pujols' battles against Mark Prior to DiMaggio-Feller, Mays-Gibson and Aaron-Drysdale might be a bit premature.
You might even find yourself rooting for a player, Cal Eldred, to whom you had never given a second thought.
And if the section of the book on the passing of Cardinals pitcher Darryl Kile, entitled simply "D.K.," doesn't choke you up a little bit, there's a good chance you're not human.
― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 24 February 2005 21:24 (nineteen years ago) link
― milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Thursday, 24 February 2005 22:51 (nineteen years ago) link
― j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 21 March 2005 03:51 (nineteen years ago) link
― David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 21 March 2005 03:55 (nineteen years ago) link
― The Obligatory Sourpuss (Begs2Differ), Monday, 21 March 2005 04:38 (nineteen years ago) link
― j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 21 March 2005 05:06 (nineteen years ago) link
― Jams Murphy (ystrickler), Monday, 21 March 2005 14:08 (nineteen years ago) link
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 21 March 2005 14:20 (nineteen years ago) link
― David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 21 March 2005 14:41 (nineteen years ago) link
dude they still hold 'em upside down before they give 'em to ya.
it was all about the suicide soda, bros.
― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 21 March 2005 22:16 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 21 March 2005 22:52 (nineteen years ago) link
― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 02:23 (nineteen years ago) link
― David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 03:07 (nineteen years ago) link
― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 03:54 (nineteen years ago) link
― David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 04:14 (nineteen years ago) link
― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 04:32 (nineteen years ago) link
― milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 05:09 (nineteen years ago) link
― j blount (papa la bas), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 05:21 (nineteen years ago) link
Fuck, them's fighting words.
― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 06:14 (nineteen years ago) link
that's even worse. "my handpuppet."
― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 17:33 (nineteen years ago) link
― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 23:56 (nineteen years ago) link
Really, it is great (like duuuuuuuuuuuuh), and I am getting a little bit of the "oh wow" recognition thing, seeing the names of players mentioned here getting love on the major league level (cf. Francis, Grienke, Greene, Adams, Teahen, and, of course, Jeremy "Chair-Toss Inspiring" Bonderman). MORE MONEYBALL DAMMIT!
― David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 16 May 2005 00:27 (eighteen years ago) link
NewsWhen the Athletics traded Tim Hudson to the Braves this past offseason, general manager Billy Beane insisted that left handed pitching prospect Dan Meyer be included in the deal. After a 1-3 record, 6.62 ERA, and noticeable loss in velocity at Triple-A Sacramento, Meyer was shut down indefinitely late last week, according to Baseball America.
ViewsWhen pitcher Rich Harden went out with a strained oblique injury, chances are some people in prospect circles were calling for Meyer as a possible replacement. While it was unlikely the Athletics would go that route even if health wasn't an issue, it's that much less likely now. The team is setting no timetable for his return and will take their time to discover the reason for Meyer's lack of success this season.
― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 16 May 2005 19:47 (eighteen years ago) link
moneyball is indeed amazing. it should be 5000000000 pages long.
i'm reading ball four for the trillionth time right now. good god it's amazing.
― Jams Murphy (ystrickler), Monday, 16 May 2005 19:53 (eighteen years ago) link
― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 16 May 2005 19:56 (eighteen years ago) link
― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 16 May 2005 20:14 (eighteen years ago) link
― Gear! (can Jung shill it, Mu?) (Gear!), Monday, 16 May 2005 20:37 (eighteen years ago) link
Be sure to dive right into that vomit-caked Mets' wives opening chapter, Stenc.
It's been so long since I read MB I don't recall Greinke in it.
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 16 May 2005 20:44 (eighteen years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 16 May 2005 21:54 (eighteen years ago) link
― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 16 May 2005 22:11 (eighteen years ago) link
― David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 17 May 2005 11:21 (eighteen years ago) link
HENCE MY NEW TEAM NICKNAME
― Haikunym (Haikunym), Friday, 20 May 2005 16:45 (eighteen years ago) link
― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 25 May 2005 23:05 (eighteen years ago) link
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 26 May 2005 12:08 (eighteen years ago) link
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/chat/chat.php?chatId=129
"I'm having a hard time keeping up with the literature that attempts to refute Moneyball. (Much of the time I can't figure out why they bother to refute a thing that was never said--say, for example, that the Atlanta Braves are not very successful, or that there are not other ways to win baseball games than the way Oakland wins baseball games.)...
"Billy Beane had no clue what the book was about until he saw the galleys--and got upset with me. In fairness to Joe Morgan--though why start now?--a lot of sports books are as-told-to affairs. He probably has never been fully exposed to the old fashioned idea of the author."
― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 12:29 (eighteen years ago) link
Book DescriptionStats vs. Scouts. Math vs. Makeup. Computers vs. Commuters. College vs. High-School. The debate is a new one in baseball, and it has recently taken on a life of its own. Ever since Michael Lewis’ best-seller Moneyball arrived on the scene, and spurred by the recent World Series victory by the sabermetric advocate Boston Red Sox, the dispute about the best way to build a professional baseball team has raged out of control - until now. In this fascinating and insightful look into what criteria major and minor league baseball scouts use to determine talent, Scout’s Honor shines a bright light on the job done by ‘old-school’ scouts and their killer instincts. The author uses the success of the Atlanta Braves as the focal point for a mesmerizing investigation into the debate of stats versus scouts, and why, if it’s a successful franchise you’re after, there is no debate about the bravest way to build a winning team. "What makes Scout’s Honor so great is that it brings us into the world of those who determine successful big leaguers by looking into the future, not by looking back at spreadsheets and stats. Now that takes talent. ‘Old-school’ wins, literally. This book is a worthy foil to the Moneyballers." - Lyle Spencer
― John (jdahlem), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 14:33 (eighteen years ago) link
WTF, that doesn't make the least bit of sense. I guess they're arguing that "stats" = "numbers compiled in the past" and therefore they have limited predictive value ... which still makes no sense. Never mind, trying to interpret these garbage arguments isn't worth our time.
― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 14:37 (eighteen years ago) link
― Jimmy Mod Is Great At Getting Us Into Trouble (ModJ), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 15:03 (eighteen years ago) link