Westminster paedo ring

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guess who? papers

blap setter (darraghmac), Tuesday, 15 July 2014 09:19 (five years ago) link

Well this thread's off to a good start.

Matt DC, Tuesday, 15 July 2014 09:20 (five years ago) link

The Smiths - Suffer Little Children
Oingo Boingo - Little Girls
Swans - Raping a Slave

sarahell, Tuesday, 15 July 2014 09:37 (five years ago) link

Bruce Forsyth, "I'm Backing Brittan"

Tommy McTommy (Tom D.), Tuesday, 15 July 2014 09:46 (five years ago) link

sorry for the DM link but it's that sort of story. i hadn't read the shit about "PIE".


TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 15 July 2014 11:02 (five years ago) link

There certainly seems to have been something going on at Elm Guest House, this is a good summary:


goth colouring book (anagram), Tuesday, 15 July 2014 12:36 (five years ago) link

jesus fucking christ.

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 15 July 2014 12:45 (five years ago) link

what in the ever-loving FUCK.

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 15 July 2014 12:46 (five years ago) link

De Sade had it right all along

i'm elf-ein lusophonic (imago), Tuesday, 15 July 2014 12:55 (five years ago) link

This is some end of season shit on another level entirely, if it plays as it should

i'm elf-ein lusophonic (imago), Tuesday, 15 July 2014 12:56 (five years ago) link

That's from the internet remember.

Tommy McTommy (Tom D.), Tuesday, 15 July 2014 12:58 (five years ago) link


Hey Bob (Scik Mouthy), Tuesday, 15 July 2014 13:05 (five years ago) link

The thing is, none of this should be surprising

i'm elf-ein lusophonic (imago), Tuesday, 15 July 2014 13:10 (five years ago) link

not saying there's not truth to story but, you know, consider the source etc etc

a biscuit/donut hybrid called “bisnuts” (stevie), Tuesday, 15 July 2014 13:10 (five years ago) link

why should it not be surprising?

a biscuit/donut hybrid called “bisnuts” (stevie), Tuesday, 15 July 2014 13:10 (five years ago) link

aged pop star

how's life, Tuesday, 15 July 2014 13:11 (five years ago) link

Soon as I saw Cliff mentioned I thought, "Oh shut up."

Tommy McTommy (Tom D.), Tuesday, 15 July 2014 13:13 (five years ago) link

Men in positions of extreme power and influence inflicting trauma on defenceless prey? Say it ain't so

i'm elf-ein lusophonic (imago), Tuesday, 15 July 2014 13:17 (five years ago) link

You mean, Jess Conrad?

Tommy McTommy (Tom D.), Tuesday, 15 July 2014 13:18 (five years ago) link

Please explain the "consider the source" aspect of the scriptonite piece for a lowly American. I just read it and am feeling a bit vertiginous tbrr.

before you die you see the rink (Jon Lewis), Tuesday, 15 July 2014 13:28 (five years ago) link

I'm not sure if its the scriptonite website where I first read this story, but the place I first read this was also awash with stories of a decidedly anti-semitic and homophobic nature. Like I say, there may be truth to it all. But this *is the internet.

a biscuit/donut hybrid called “bisnuts” (stevie), Tuesday, 15 July 2014 13:29 (five years ago) link

A few years ago, a friend was telling me that the U.K. was absolutely awash in institutional pedophilia. She's a very trusting person with a history of buying into things she's seen on cable tv, so I tend to take the things she tells me with a few grains of salt and if necessary, gently push back with some guidance towards the facts if she seems to have been led a little too far out on a limb. So it's been really interesting for me watching the whole Jimmy Savile scandal unfold and now this whole thing popping up. Worried that I'm going to have to walk back my debunking of the Animal Planet Mermaids special.

how's life, Tuesday, 15 July 2014 13:42 (five years ago) link

It has a Bill Maloney link, he is a shouty activist type who muddies the waters with Ickeish type associations. My uncle who helped a lot of Artane abuse victims make cases against The Christian Brothers, says people like him are too unprofessional to be involved in such important work.

xelab, Tuesday, 15 July 2014 13:50 (five years ago) link

yes those Bill Maloney videos/documentaries on youtube are utterly mental and completely get in the way of incredibly important issues. even when some of the evidence is compelling, the presentation is too nuts to be taken seriously....

jamiesummerz, Tuesday, 15 July 2014 15:59 (five years ago) link

one month passes...

Soon as I saw Cliff mentioned I thought, "Oh shut up."

so, um, yeah

goth colouring book (anagram), Tuesday, 2 September 2014 09:10 (five years ago) link

Not saying he's innocent or anything, but I checked to see if this thread revive was prompted by any new wrinkles in the story and it seems the main news story today is about how the BBC covered the raid, rather than any further incriminating evidence re: Cliff. Have I missed something?

you couldn't even wear a fedora if your lifes depended on it (stevie), Tuesday, 2 September 2014 10:14 (five years ago) link

it seems like all the papers have now gone into 'protect cliff, fuck the bbc' mode

jamiesummerz, Tuesday, 2 September 2014 12:10 (five years ago) link

no, nothing new, I just felt like stoking the fires of hell

goth colouring book (anagram), Tuesday, 2 September 2014 12:13 (five years ago) link

i'm just glad that the calendar is going to continue

^ 諷刺 (ken c), Tuesday, 2 September 2014 12:40 (five years ago) link

Do we think the papers would be in 'protect Cliff' mode if they knew he had actually done wrong? I know its crazy to imagine newspapers learning from their mistakes, but post-Saville and in this Yewtree era, isn't it crazy risky for them to turn a blind eye, if they 'know' of anyone wrongdoing on Cliff's part (and I mean 'know' as much as most people 'knew' of Saville's reputation and the surrounding rumours). Again, not defending or indeed 'protecting' Cliff, but I don't see waterproof logic behind the papers' move here, beyond rote BBC-bashing.

you couldn't even wear a fedora if your lifes depended on it (stevie), Wednesday, 3 September 2014 10:19 (five years ago) link

Could it be a way of keeping the story in the papers - wringing more clicks out of something which has so far proved to be a good source of clicks but which isn't generating anything else publishable right now?

Tim, Wednesday, 3 September 2014 10:38 (five years ago) link

this has been circling for years now and it just seems like there is loads of fairly well established information on it; how have there been no further charges? is it that almost everyone involved is already dead


akm, Wednesday, 3 September 2014 19:56 (five years ago) link

two months pass...

Already linked in the Savile thread:

Historical abuse inquiry: Police examine 'possible homicide'

goth colouring book (anagram), Friday, 14 November 2014 16:01 (five years ago) link

one month passes...

The investigation continues:

Child abuse inquiry: Police investigate three alleged murders

rising stones cross (anagram), Thursday, 18 December 2014 13:16 (five years ago) link

Fucking hell this gets bleaker and bleaker, it's like the plot of some Scandinavian police drama.

There's a quote from the witness, 'Nick', directly implicating a former Tory MP in one of the murders:


Matt DC, Thursday, 18 December 2014 13:45 (five years ago) link

the way things are going revelations that senior establishment figures are indeed 12-foot blood-drinking lizards from outer space would be something of a relief

bizarro gazzara, Thursday, 18 December 2014 13:48 (five years ago) link

is anyone ever actually going to be held to account? or are they just going to let everyone involved die of natural causes then shrug it off?

there are allegations that david cameron made a damning tape about ken clarke 'disappear' while cameron was head of comms at carlton tv.

bizarro gazzara, Thursday, 18 December 2014 13:51 (five years ago) link

Police have to investigate when allegations are made. Relatively recent examples (like McAlpine) make it pretty clear that not all the allegations being made are going to have much of a basis in reality.

Wristy Hurlington (ShariVari), Thursday, 18 December 2014 14:15 (five years ago) link

Except in this instance the Met have put themselves on record as saying they believe the witness is credible, which is an extraordinary thing to say publicly given the circumstances.

Nevertheless, internet conspiracy theorists be having a field day over this - the Cameron/Ken Clarke thing seems particularly outlandish given that Cameron would later go on to put him in charge of the British legal system.

Matt DC, Thursday, 18 December 2014 14:22 (five years ago) link

Wasn't LEON BRITTAN in charge of the British legal system for some time?

Root It Oot (Tom D.), Thursday, 18 December 2014 14:53 (five years ago) link

well, quite. i think regular conceptions of 'outlandish' don't really apply when we're talking seriously about MPs raping and murdering little boys.

bizarro gazzara, Thursday, 18 December 2014 14:56 (five years ago) link

Except in this instance the Met have put themselves on record as saying they believe the witness is credible, which is an extraordinary thing to say publicly given the circumstances.

They didn't just say the allegations were credible, they said they were "true", which is even more extraordinary unless they have substantially more corroborating evidence than they are admitting to.

A number of MPs were clearly involved in abusing children. That seems beyond doubt. Beyond that, it doesn't sound like they are currently in a position to say what happened. The degree to which the net and the press have been willing to accept 'the murderous gay conspiracy at the heart of the establishment' before any robust evidence has been brought to light makes me a touch uneasy, given the echoes of other homophobic conspiracy theories that have circulated over the years. Which is obviously not to say it couldn't be true.

Wristy Hurlington (ShariVari), Thursday, 18 December 2014 19:34 (five years ago) link

The idea that they self-identified as gay to remove their actual 'sexuality' from investigation or scrutiny?

Mark G, Thursday, 18 December 2014 21:51 (five years ago) link

theres an antisemitic element as well as gay panic

Chairman Feinstein (nakhchivan), Thursday, 18 December 2014 21:55 (five years ago) link

Yes, absolutely.

Wristy Hurlington (ShariVari), Thursday, 18 December 2014 22:14 (five years ago) link

I can't really understand the lack of coverage about this. Isn't it usually the kind of thing the guardian are all over?

Nancy Whank (jed_), Thursday, 18 December 2014 23:15 (five years ago) link

four months pass...

Key Westminster Figures In Child Abuse Papers

Possibly Fingers (Tom D.), Wednesday, 22 July 2015 18:34 (four years ago) link

gosh, how unfortunate that they're all dead

bizarro gazzara, Wednesday, 22 July 2015 18:56 (four years ago) link

Ben Fellows, a former child actor, is currently in court for perverting the course of justice over allegations he made about Kenneth Clarke.

There are some absolutely astonishing allegations being made in court right now, the most lurid of which is Fellows' claim that the former Head of the Met's paedophile unit told him that he was aware of a porn film starring Joanna Lumley. Even if that were true I don't really understand what bearing it would have on anything.

Matt DC, Wednesday, 22 July 2015 19:05 (four years ago) link

Pretty sure Thatcher is going to be named in those papers too but unless they can say why, it isn't much help. Can highlight the dead ones as they can't sue for libel.

I wear my Redditor loathing with pride (ShariVari), Wednesday, 22 July 2015 19:09 (four years ago) link

If it transpires that Thatcher both knew about this and covered it up then that is the biggest political revelation/scandal of most of our lifetimes, right there. If it isn't already. I'm really surprised this isn't front page news more often as it stands.

Sort of vaguely curious as to how they even went about setting up a covert paedophile ring in the middle of Westminster, it's not the sort of thing you can put on the House of Commons notice board. And there must have been people who weren't directly involved who had an inkling what was going on.

Matt DC, Wednesday, 22 July 2015 19:13 (four years ago) link

Sir Peter Morrison was very close to Thatcher.

Possibly Fingers (Tom D.), Wednesday, 22 July 2015 19:19 (four years ago) link

Presumably it was like a 77 private board type arrangement ?


quixotic yet visceral (Bob Six), Wednesday, 22 July 2015 19:51 (four years ago) link


This is pretty far down the news pages of the bbc and the guardian. It's not even on the opening "splash" page of the guardian. Wtf are they so shy about? The bbc Ireypticence can understand, somewhat.

Acting Crazy (Instrumental) (jed_), Thursday, 23 July 2015 00:21 (four years ago) link

Er. *The bbc's reticence I can understand, somewhat.

Acting Crazy (Instrumental) (jed_), Thursday, 23 July 2015 00:22 (four years ago) link

It's on the front page of The Guardian website now. There's no story to tell from the Sky "revelations", though. Unless they can show the context in which the individuals were named (which has not been disclosed) there's barely any point in reporting it.

I wear my Redditor loathing with pride (ShariVari), Thursday, 23 July 2015 06:53 (four years ago) link

two months pass...

This seems extraordinary:


The police are effectively telling Panorama not to broadcast the episode given the risk of jeopardising ongoing cases. Panorama are telling the police that vulnerable witnesses were coached into making dubious allegations.

Al Ain Delon (ShariVari), Wednesday, 7 October 2015 06:23 (four years ago) link

So it seems my speculation upthread may have been correct? (Except that it wasn't a case of childhood false memory syndrome rather than someone making stuff up as an adult.) Or is this "David" some other person than the "Nick" mentioned in the earlier stories?

Tuomas, Wednesday, 7 October 2015 07:13 (four years ago) link

Oh, okay, sorry, this was mentioned later in the article:

It is understood that David is not the same person as Nick, whose allegations are still being investigated by Operation Midland detectives.

Tuomas, Wednesday, 7 October 2015 07:16 (four years ago) link

Multiple people have named Leon Brittan though haven't they? This strikes me as extremely dodgy and I'm not really sure what Panorama is up to here.

Matt DC, Wednesday, 7 October 2015 09:20 (four years ago) link

Well, like I said upthread, there's a long history of child abuse claims leading to hysteria and false convictions, so I'd think it's the duty of journalists to find out whether such allegations have a solid basis? In the US many innocent people spent years in jail before it became apparent the evidence against them was based only on the child "witnesses" being manipulated into giving the answers their interviewers wanted, and/or false memory syndrome, so their convictions were overturned. Paedophilia is real thing and should be taken seriously, but sadly false accusations and "paedo hysteria" are something that can happen too, so that needs to be taken into account as well.

Tuomas, Wednesday, 7 October 2015 09:47 (four years ago) link

this is the most comprehensive thing I've found setting out the allegations against Brittan:


there are some intersting articles on that site criticising the conduct of Exaro news, for example:



soref, Wednesday, 7 October 2015 14:37 (four years ago) link

two months pass...

Janner dead

Anyway, it's not a three, it's a yogh. (Tom D.), Saturday, 19 December 2015 18:27 (four years ago) link

Danjuk has chosen his words carefully.

Mark G, Sunday, 20 December 2015 20:28 (four years ago) link

three months pass...

it seems somewhat suspicious that met have chosen the moment that everyone's attention is being diverted by post-budget tory implosion to announce this:


soref, Monday, 21 March 2016 20:08 (four years ago) link

three months pass...

Exaro has folded.

On a Raqqa tip (ShariVari), Wednesday, 20 July 2016 21:01 (three years ago) link

they didn't publish much eh? was p much Westminster paedo focused and there hasn't been a lot of developments in that of late

ælərdaɪs (jim in vancouver), Wednesday, 20 July 2016 21:05 (three years ago) link

Yes, it started out as an investigative new site with a broader remit but seems to have been just focused on this for at least a year.

On a Raqqa tip (ShariVari), Wednesday, 20 July 2016 21:09 (three years ago) link

I've seen some speculation that Exaro's folding could be related to the Henriques inquiry into the police's handling of Westminster paedo allegations, which may well be critical of Exaro + the police's relationship with them. I think they had financial problems as well, though?

soref, Wednesday, 20 July 2016 22:21 (three years ago) link


Doubts about Tony's reliability are especially significant because, although 33 people have now claimed Janner abused them, for many years he was the only accuser. They suggest that the decision not to charge Janner was not an 'Establishment cover-up', as some have claimed, but a determination on ordinary legal grounds.

On January 29, 1991, Tony went to a local police station to spend the whole day being interviewed about Janner.
This was when he made his claims about Barbara Fitt.

After the interview, the police passed the allegations about Mrs Fitt – who was still running Station Road – to the social services department, along with a copy of Tony's statement. In the summer of 1991 a panel of senior managers noted her exemplary record and decided to take no further action, determining that the claims were bogus, a complete fabrication.

Mrs Fitt told the panel she thought Tony may have been seeking 'revenge' because she had been responsible for having him moved in 1974, after the incident with the six-year-old.

this seems concerning, though it would be helpful to know how the panel came to the conclusion that the allegations against Fitt were bogus, and obviously it could be the case that his account of abuse by Fitt was fabricated but his account of abuse by Janner was true.

soref, Sunday, 31 July 2016 18:45 (three years ago) link

Fitt also mentioned here ("Mr A" = the accuser referred to as "Tony" in the Mail article)


Mr A claimed that weekly trips had been arranged for him to the MP’s London home and to the Holiday Inn by Barbara Fitt, then Officer-in-Charge of Station Road children’s home, Wigston, Leicester, though conceded that this would have been impossible with the first visits, as Fitt had only taken over the home four months before he left it.

soref, Sunday, 31 July 2016 18:53 (three years ago) link

TBH I assumed Exaro was funded largely by someone who cared a lot about this and basically nothing else, to the point of monomania.

Matt DC, Sunday, 31 July 2016 22:46 (three years ago) link

seeing reports that Goddard has quit as head of the csa inquiry?

soref, Thursday, 4 August 2016 18:29 (three years ago) link

two months pass...

the Times is alleging that Goddard quit after "she was warned by a senior official over her frequent use of racially derogatory language", including claiming that Britain has so many paedophiles "because it has so many asian men"


soref, Thursday, 13 October 2016 21:47 (three years ago) link

also, the Henriques inquiry into Operation Midland has apparently been completed, but the police have not said how much of it will be published, if any?

soref, Thursday, 13 October 2016 21:51 (three years ago) link

eleven months pass...


Sir Edward Heath would have been questioned over sex abuse claims if he was alive when they came to light, police have said.

Wiltshire Police launched Operation Conifer in 2015 when the former PM was accused of historical child sex abuse.

The Conservative politician would have been interviewed under caution over seven claims, including the alleged rape of an 11-year-old, they said.

No inference of guilt should be drawn from this, police stressed.

The allegations include one of rape of a male under 16, three of indecent assault on a male under 16, four of indecent assault on a male under 14, and two of indecent assault on a male over 16.

The earliest, dating from 1961 when Sir Edward was Lord Privy Seal, alleged he had raped and indecently assaulted an 11-year-old boy in London "during a paid sexual encounter in private in a dwelling."

Another two of the seven claims relate to "paid sexual encounters."

The Sir Edward Heath Foundation called the report "profoundly unsatisfactory".

more bemused than human (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 5 October 2017 11:17 (two years ago) link

There was that credible testament from the lady who said she saw 11 children from Haute de la Garenne go out with Heath on his yacht, but only 10 returned.

calzino, Thursday, 5 October 2017 11:27 (two years ago) link

testimony even. just having a grim lol at the idea of the testaments of the twelve pederasts!

calzino, Thursday, 5 October 2017 11:33 (two years ago) link

what makes the testimony about him dumping children's bodies from his yacht "credible"?

soref, Thursday, 5 October 2017 11:39 (two years ago) link

tbh the report is highly unlikely to say "if allegations like these were brought to light today, we'd totally blow them off". idk how much point there is in releasing a report that just indicated the police would do the basics of their job in 2017.

Wag1 Shree Rajneesh (ShariVari), Thursday, 5 October 2017 11:43 (two years ago) link

the usual formulation is "credible witness" i think: which means the testimony may be implausible but nothing (besides this specific implausibility) seems to stand against our taking the witness seriously*

*and of course credible witnesses often just make mistakes

mark s, Thursday, 5 October 2017 11:48 (two years ago) link

only one she alleged. And given the children's home he was frequenting, and its sordid history - it seems credible enough to me.

calzino, Thursday, 5 October 2017 11:49 (two years ago) link

well tbf the focus of operation conifer wasn't 'what would the police do about these allegations today' it was 'is there any substance to these kid-fucking allegations about ted heath and others' xp to sv

more bemused than human (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 5 October 2017 11:50 (two years ago) link

and to that end

As part of the £1.5m investigation, three people unconnected to Sir Edward were arrested for offences related to child abuse, one of whom is still being investigated.

more bemused than human (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 5 October 2017 11:51 (two years ago) link

That's the point of the operation but if the conclusion as to whether there is any substance to it is ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ then i'm not sure how much value there is in publicly saying they would have questioned him - which would be the starting point of any basic investigation but will inevitably be interpreted as an indicator of guilt however many qualifiers they put in.

Wag1 Shree Rajneesh (ShariVari), Thursday, 5 October 2017 11:58 (two years ago) link

Strikes me as a weird statement to release.

Tom's Tits Experiment (Tom D.), Thursday, 5 October 2017 12:01 (two years ago) link

the fact that the police also leaked to newspapers about how they're "110% sure" that there is substance to the allegations may lead one to think a lot of this is about justifying the time and resources that have been spent on this

soref, Thursday, 5 October 2017 12:03 (two years ago) link

given that it was already known operation conifer's remit would include ted heath it surely would have been stranger if they hadn't addressed their findings, inconclusive as they are, when the report was published

it'd be the first thing the media would ask about, might as well address it head-on

more bemused than human (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 5 October 2017 12:04 (two years ago) link

one year passes...


☮ (peace, man), Tuesday, 14 May 2019 14:45 (one year ago) link

I don't wanna say "I told you so", but...

Tuomas, Thursday, 16 May 2019 17:00 (one year ago) link

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