that included Superman/Jimmy Olsen
― Οὖτις, Monday, 7 July 2014 20:40 (five years ago) link
Epic and OGNS titles weren't related to each other tho. What I mean is something like Ultimates or New Universe, where there was a series of titles that were related to one another, but totally separate from the "regular" continuity.
― Οὖτις, Monday, 7 July 2014 20:41 (five years ago) link
like, DC didn't have a bunch of Earth-2 titles (right?)
― Οὖτις, Monday, 7 July 2014 20:42 (five years ago) link
There was All-Star Squadron and that's about it for Earth-2 ongoings.
― EZ Snappin, Monday, 7 July 2014 20:47 (five years ago) link
It was the first line produced by Marvel Comics utilizing a pre-conceived shared universe concept.
― fit and working again, Monday, 7 July 2014 20:49 (five years ago) link
I have a whole short box of nothing but groo. Can't even get at it rn (lol nyc) but I'm gonna wallow in them again someday.
― how will the milf survive? (Jon Lewis), Monday, 7 July 2014 23:04 (five years ago) link
yeah, groo was awesome
― Look at this joke I've recognised, do you recognise it as well? (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 8 July 2014 05:25 (five years ago) link
i loved groo as a kid. a bit sad that the collections available on amazon are a tad pricey.
― The Littlest Boho (stevie), Tuesday, 8 July 2014 06:29 (five years ago) link
Those figures are for postal subscriptions only, rather than newstand or comic book store sales
― sʌxihɔːl (Ward Fowler), Tuesday, 8 July 2014 07:36 (five years ago) link
Collections were only ever four issues too iirc, they could have gotten the whole series out if Evanier had switched to fat 12-issue tomes
sales must have turned around at some point
subscription figures aren't necessarily exactly proportionate with newstand and direct sales anyway
i remember picking up Groo into the late 80s, it went forever
it's still going, the last series was in 2010 (and there's a Groo Vs Conan that was due in 2011, but Sergio's illness knocked it off track [and Sakai's family troubles probably aren't helping him speed through it rn])
Looks as if Groo was the second-highest selling Epic title after the flagship anthology. That's not too shabby, really.
can't possibly believe the Heavy Metal knockoff magazine sold more than Elektra
Was the New Universe the first time Marvel attempted the alternate, self-contained universe of titles gambit...? Was there any precedent of a similar approach from DC? (DC was pretty explicit about the separate universes, but they didn't have entire titles devoted to alternate universes, did they? At least not until Vertigo?)
Vertigo wasn't an alternate universe, it was a bunch of DCU and otherwise self-contained books
― boney tassel (sic), Tuesday, 8 July 2014 07:39 (five years ago) link
Essential-style, phonebook Groo volumes wld be a winner, no?
Think Conan v Groo is finally coming out this year.
Before that there was an All Star Comics, also featuring the Earth-2 heroes, but since 'Flash of Two Worlds' DC have never exactly resisted crossovers between the two universes.
― sʌxihɔːl (Ward Fowler), Tuesday, 8 July 2014 07:54 (five years ago) link
Groo was the first American-style comic I read after a childhood of Tintin and Asterix and The Beano. Anecdotally - it felt like Mad and Groo were much more widely read than the superhero books - maybe a UK thing? There were copies in every newsagent - plus (anecdotally again) it was never just boys who read them.
― Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 8 July 2014 11:28 (five years ago) link
Groo was always tough to find in my area (NY), never seemed that popular around here. Probably because of the times (late 80s/early 90s). I was often surprised when I was able to find a copy
― Nhex, Tuesday, 8 July 2014 13:48 (five years ago) link
I think I got into Mad magazine as a kid before most comics but never saw Groo on a newsstand and hardly ever in a comics shop.
― mh, Tuesday, 8 July 2014 13:58 (five years ago) link
Groo was dead easy to find in the UK, but I always suspected we mainly got the leftover comics that hadn't sold in the US
― The Littlest Boho (stevie), Tuesday, 8 July 2014 14:02 (five years ago) link
Nah. For quite a while, Marvel US would swap a 15 cent (or whatever) front cover price plate for a 10p cover price place at the end of a run of 'colour' comics, so the Marvel titles in newsagents etc were produced specifically for the UK market, although certain titles (eg The Avengers) that had British Marvel equivalents were 'non-distributed' (ie you could only get them as imports.)
By the time that the cover price included both a US and UK price, comics were distributed to UK specialist shops just a couple of days after they went on sale in America, so not 'leftovers' either.
― sʌxihɔːl (Ward Fowler), Tuesday, 8 July 2014 14:12 (five years ago) link
paper is heavy, I would imagine shipping comics overseas was at the bottom of their list of strategies
― mh, Tuesday, 8 July 2014 14:13 (five years ago) link
really? woah, I always imagined when I was reading Marvel obsessively (86-88) that they were imports... thanks for clearing that up, Ward.
― The Littlest Boho (stevie), Tuesday, 8 July 2014 14:27 (five years ago) link
As a kid, I was always fascinated with Marvel comics from the UK whenever some neighborhood kids got their hands on one (usually Action Force, IIRC). Those larger comics with the different paper stock felt like alien artifacts. Even later, non-tabloid stuff like Knights of Pendragon looked so much different from what I was used to (which was largely due to what I think might've been a completely different color process than what was standard in most US Marvel books at the time).
― The She's The Sheriff Mystery Hour (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 8 July 2014 14:38 (five years ago) link
I have mixed feelings on Kieron Gillen's recent Iron Man run, but using a couple Marvel UK characters (Death's Head and Dark Angel) was kind of entertaining
― mh, Tuesday, 8 July 2014 14:53 (five years ago) link
Stevie, I hope you won't mind if I make things a little clearer, still
The small, colour Marvel comics were always technically 'imports', in that they were printed and published in America. When Marvel comics were first imported to the UK, they would have a cents price on them and over that t UK price stamp, normally bearing a T&P insignia, which stood for the British distributors Thorpe and Porter Lrd. The comics were brought over to this country by sea mail.
At some point in the early 1970s, Marvel in America began to print a certain amount of their color comics with a UK pence price, rather than a cents price. This was done at the end of the printing process, a simple matter of swapping a printing plate, but it meant that UK pence copies traditionally have had shittier printing, more colour mis-alignment etc, which may have contributed to your impression that these comics were somehow 'leftovers'. They are generally deemed less collectible than the 'real' cents comics. But they were American Marvels, printed and published in the US and imported here.
Not every American Marvel title was officially distributed in the UK (these comics are known in British collector circles as 'ND' - not distributed - comics.) When the British Marvel titles kicked off in the 1970s, reprinting the American comics in larger size, black and white (or two colour) weekly editions, lots of the series featured in these UK Marvel titles - Spider-Man, Hulk, Avengers etc - were removed from UK distribution, so as not to distract from the UK sales, or confuse readers with stories from vastly different time periods. The only way for a UK reader to acquire these ND comics would be to subscribe, visit America, order them via a mail order dealer either at home or in America, or buy them from one a dedicated comic book store, like Dark They Were and Golden Eyed in London. Distribution of the Marvel Comics with British prices was always extremely patchy, but there's no evidence that any particular titles were 'dumped' on the UK market.
Again, at some point in the 1980s, Marvel began to print only one version of their American colour comics, with both an American and British (and Canadian) price on the front. These titles would be imported in large quantities by air to UK comic shops, typically going on sale just a couple of days after they went on sale in America. Or you could wait a month or so and buy pretty much every Marvel or DC as a slightly cheaper (cover) price, sea-freighted and officially distributed to newsagents and even comic shops.
Looking at a gallery of Groo covers, it seems that the first one with a joint US/UK price was issue 16, cover dated June 1986:
― sʌxihɔːl (Ward Fowler), Tuesday, 8 July 2014 20:18 (five years ago) link
Thanks for that, Ward. I could read ultra-granular comics minutia like that all day long.
― The She's The Sheriff Mystery Hour (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 8 July 2014 20:38 (five years ago) link
Seconded. And I'm pretty sure I had that Groo!
― The Littlest Boho (stevie), Tuesday, 8 July 2014 21:17 (five years ago) link
Really interesting! I just finished the Sean Howe so am definitely in minutia mode. Follow-up question: when did DC/Marvel stuff start disappearing from UK newsagents? I stopped buying (for the first time) round Death of Superman time - I think they were still on the shelves then.
― Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 8 July 2014 22:05 (five years ago) link
Just noticed by a friend on Twitter and reposted to Facebook:
"Disney owns marvel.Marvel owns Thor.Thor is the son of a king.Thor is now female.Thor is now a Disney princess."
― Star Gentle Uterus (DJP), Friday, 18 July 2014 17:27 (five years ago) link
it goes all the way to the top mannnnnnnn
― Look at this joke I've recognised, do you recognise it as well? (forksclovetofu), Friday, 18 July 2014 18:08 (five years ago) link
Good idea I guess then
― Chuck_Tatum, Sunday, 20 July 2014 22:34 (five years ago) link
Marvel Unlimited is doing a month for $0.99 during Comic-Con, I'll get in on thishttp://marvel.com/mu
― Nhex, Thursday, 24 July 2014 14:55 (five years ago) link
No ALL-NEW DOOP available, what a waste.
― Nhex, Friday, 25 July 2014 19:06 (five years ago) link
If only for the sake of people that might read the title and have no context for it whatsoever, I love that there's a comic called All-New Doop.
I'll probably eventually get on the Marvel Unlimited train, but not until it gets a helluva lot closer to actually being Unlimited. For the time being, I'm content to stupidly spend all of my money in the futile attempt of getting physical copies of everything I want.
― Dr. Diapers (Old Lunch), Friday, 25 July 2014 19:17 (five years ago) link
reminds me, I need to catch up on All-New Doop, I'm a bit behind
― mh, Friday, 25 July 2014 19:28 (five years ago) link
Read some older Dark Wolverine issues. Man, it's infuriating - so many crossovers, every issue continues directly into another series, and there's no way to just go to the correct book without hunting it down. Netflix this ain't.
― Nhex, Friday, 25 July 2014 19:46 (five years ago) link
I haven't used the service at all, but if Marvel's oft-nonsensical methodology with respect to physical collections is any kind of a barometer, I can only imagine that reading the more recent hyperinterconnected stuff is a total nightmare.
― Self-Satisfaction Guaranteed (Old Lunch), Friday, 25 July 2014 20:05 (five years ago) link
How is the new Nightcrawler run from Chris Claremont?
― jamiesummerz, Friday, 8 August 2014 14:58 (five years ago) link
I would love to give him the benefit of the doubt given that he is 90% of the reason why I read comic books today but, after the 90s, I'll be damned if I'm ever reading another new Claremont book.
― Star Gentle Uterus (DJP), Friday, 8 August 2014 15:15 (five years ago) link
The new Nightcrawler is readable. It's not good by any means, but compared to DC, readable counts as a win.
― EZ Snappin, Friday, 8 August 2014 15:53 (five years ago) link
what, you don't like reading captions with paragraphs of exposition and character description draped over soap operas? xp
― mh, Friday, 8 August 2014 15:53 (five years ago) link
― go ahead. make vid where u rap about this new TMNT movie. (forksclovetofu), Friday, 8 August 2014 16:31 (five years ago) link
I thought Claremont came across quite menschy in the Howe book so I'll give him a shot
― Chuck_Tatum, Friday, 8 August 2014 21:47 (five years ago) link
I haven't read comics for years, Marvel or otherwise, but I came across the Howe book at the library and have been blowing through it over the past few days. I just finished the Shooter years- which were the years I in which I discovered Marvel comics. Boy he did not come across well. I was cringing imagining working for him as depicted in his later tenure.
― Dokken played here for a Ribfest and people were total assholes (Sparkle Motion), Saturday, 6 September 2014 23:01 (five years ago) link
Dreaded Deadline Doom notwithstanding, I loved the auteur years between Stan and Shooter as E-I-C. Shooter's ascension = the day the music died.
― Malibu Stasi (WilliamC), Saturday, 6 September 2014 23:18 (five years ago) link
It's certainly seeming that way to me. The Gerber/Englehart/Starlin stuff sounds great - I've not seen much of it other than the odd issue or reference here or there. I'm thinking of getting a Marvel Unlimited subscription in the hopes that some of that material is represented.
― Dokken played here for a Ribfest and people were total assholes (Sparkle Motion), Saturday, 6 September 2014 23:59 (five years ago) link
I really dug the Howe book too! So many pros are pissed about it.
I haven't read these yet, but I thought I'd pass them on, two-part Shooter defense:http://www.hoodedutilitarian.com/2013/01/jim-shooter-a-second-opinion-part-one-the-best-job-he-can/http://www.hoodedutilitarian.com/2013/10/jim-shooter-a-second-opinion-part-two-romper-room-on-crystal-meth-installment-1/
― Brakhage, Sunday, 7 September 2014 23:24 (five years ago) link
omg lolz @ that Ghost Rider + Jesus storyline, never heard of that before
― Οὖτις, Monday, 8 September 2014 17:00 (five years ago) link
no kidding! if your main gripe about Jim Shooter is that he didn't want to publish your story where Jesus helps Ghost Rider, then you really have no ammo whatsoever, really
― ⌘-B (mh), Monday, 8 September 2014 17:48 (five years ago) link
Those Shooter defense articles have been linked to here before - they're still mostly bullshit. Creators had other, bigger gripes abt Shooter than that he wouldn't publish their Jesus/Ghost Rider story (but i mean, why not - this is a company that published Son of Satan, after all.)
I love the Sean Howe bk, gobbled it up, but I think there are other histories of Marvel and American comics still to be told - it's not, by any means, definitive.
― sʌxihɔːl (Ward Fowler), Monday, 8 September 2014 18:41 (five years ago) link
yeah idk if Shooter was in the right there (it's conceivable) I just find the whole prospect v v 70s and v v funny
― Οὖτις, Monday, 8 September 2014 18:56 (five years ago) link
If I were to do a radio-button poll of Marvel 70s "auteur" series, what should I include?
Starlin's WarlockMoench/Gulacy Master of Kung FuMcGregor/Graham Black PantherMcGregor/Russell KillravenWolfman/Colan DraculaWolfman/Perlin Werewolf by NightRich Buckler DeathlokSteve Gerber, Howard the DuckGerber, Man-Thing
What else would fit in there? Any of the superhero titles?
― Malibu Stasi (WilliamC), Monday, 8 September 2014 19:23 (five years ago) link
surely claremont's xmen, no?
― the other song about butts in the top 5 (forksclovetofu), Monday, 8 September 2014 19:38 (five years ago) link
Gerber's Defenders is the only obvious omission. Maybe Starlin's Captain Marvel. Claremont might be outside the purview of that particular endeavor.
― Coarse Apple Slaw (Old Lunch), Monday, 8 September 2014 19:38 (five years ago) link
Yes — this is Jessica Drew, who has no relation whatsoever to Spidey.
― Ticket Tout (morrisp), Tuesday, 25 February 2020 14:40 (two days ago) link
(...And who already got an awesome new costume just a few years back. Plus, her “classic” costume is one of Marvel’s best. She didn’t need a crappy third costume.)
― Ticket Tout (morrisp), Tuesday, 25 February 2020 14:43 (two days ago) link
Forget the costume, whoever's writing this thing better be prepared to outdo that Hopeless run or why even bother.
― Expart of Languidge (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 25 February 2020 15:03 (two days ago) link
Yeah. It’s Karla Pacheco
― Ticket Tout (morrisp), Tuesday, 25 February 2020 15:06 (two days ago) link
Jessica Drew is my favorite Marvel hero about whom I know practically nothing
Like, I never followed her stories or anything but I LOVE her entire look and whenever she shows up as a secondary character, I cheer
― totally unnecessary bewbz of exploitation (DJP), Tuesday, 25 February 2020 17:08 (two days ago) link
Yeah, I can't fully explain my love for the character (tho I have gone back and read most of her solo stuff)... there's just something really compelling about her.
― Ticket Tout (morrisp), Tuesday, 25 February 2020 17:23 (two days ago) link
she's cool, also a brainwashed spy of some sort
― Nhex, Tuesday, 25 February 2020 19:13 (two days ago) link
It's too bad they retconned her seventies origin story, where it was revealed she was originally a spider that had been uplifted into a human by the High Evolutionary. That's an awesomely grotesque superhero origin.
― Tuomas, Thursday, 27 February 2020 07:29 (thirteen hours ago) link
that is great
― Fantastic. Great move. Well done (sic), Thursday, 27 February 2020 09:11 (twelve hours ago) link
To be fair, that original origin (when she was intended to be just a one-shot character, to establish trademark rights in the name) was immediately retconned later the same year, the next time she appeared.
― Murdered-Out Highlander XLE (morrisp), Thursday, 27 February 2020 15:39 (five hours ago) link
(And I think she could not have seen long-term success with such a bizarre origin.)
― Murdered-Out Highlander XLE (morrisp), Thursday, 27 February 2020 15:41 (five hours ago) link
One more point: as far as retcons go, revealing that the High Evolutionary had “gaslighted” her into thinking she had evolved from a spider, for psychological manipulation purposes, is still a pretty satisfyingly f’d-up background.
― Murdered-Out Highlander XLE (morrisp), Thursday, 27 February 2020 16:10 (five hours ago) link
xp you say that but its 2020 and Spider-Pig is a household name whoooooooooooo
― Nhex, Thursday, 27 February 2020 19:44 (one hour ago) link
Spider-Ham, right? Spider-Pig was in the Simpsons movie
― mh, Thursday, 27 February 2020 19:46 (one hour ago) link
Was gonna say but figured my pedantry could be put to better use.
― Expart of Languidge (Old Lunch), Thursday, 27 February 2020 19:52 (one hour ago) link
there is no better use for pedantry than correcting people on the accuracy of Peter Porker's sobriquet
― Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Thursday, 27 February 2020 20:15 (one hour ago) link
Simpsons movie did more box office and has been on home video for 12 years, it's more likely to have generated a household name tbh
― Fantastic. Great move. Well done (sic), Thursday, 27 February 2020 20:27 (fifty-five minutes ago) link
I demand they bring back Goose Rider
I had the original Marvel Tails comic and still occasionally think of the panel captioned "Goose Rider summons the demons of heck"
― mh, Thursday, 27 February 2020 20:29 (fifty-three minutes ago) link
You may be in luck. The second of two collections of all the OG Spider-Ham material is forthcoming and a new title has just begun in the past month. We're in the midst of a veritable Ham-issuance.
― Expart of Languidge (Old Lunch), Thursday, 27 February 2020 20:33 (forty-nine minutes ago) link
― mh, Thursday, 27 February 2020 20:35 (forty-seven minutes ago) link
― Miami weisse (WmC), Thursday, 27 February 2020 20:48 (thirty-four minutes ago) link