Rush - The 1982-1987 albums POLL

Blame thread for causing me to fall into a black hole of Rush videos for a hour. YouTube has tons of live clips of current Rush playing the new wave era songs and they sound massive (Lifeson back on Gibsons)

Yeah, for me, HYF was the beginning of the crappy guitar tone and production that didn't really get fixed until Counterparts

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukhdUkRFBa0

Wow, Geddy vox sound terrible in that "Force Ten" clip.

I like how Neil and Geddy have apparently fundamentally changed their physical approach to their instruments over the years.

Lifeson was so hugely influenced by Andy Summers and The Edge. Probably a big reason why they wanted Liklywhite to produce Grace Under Pressure.

― A. Begrand, Wednesday, July 2, 2014 2:06 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This is interesting re: the Edge. Is this the one time in music history that a guy with light years more talent was influenced by an inferior player?

Is this the one time in music history that a guy with light years more talent was influenced by an inferior player?

Probably not, but you're also talking about technical ability rather than talent. I'd say they're on about the same level talent-wise, in that they make noises with the guitar that people like to hear.

Also, on Hold Your Fire, Lifeson had switched amplifiers from the usual Marshalls to Gallien Kruegers.

Aha! This might get at the kernel of the problem for me.

Researching the Stereogum thing I had tracked down a quote by Lifeson where he specifically mentions the Police and U2 being a huge influence on his playing in the early 1980s, and now I can't find it.

Zero votes for HYF = crazy

yeah i'm so sad but i can't front like its actually my favorite of these 4

Re: the Edge. He was sounding like Andy Summers as early as the late '70s/early '80s, c. "Perm. Waves" and "Moving Pictures," when the Police were huge. So it seems odd that that he would cite the Edge as an influence, because by the time U2 was big enough to likely be on his radar - say, "War" or "Unf. Fire" - Lifeson was already well in that mode, and really specifically Summers vs. the Edge's, er, delay tactics.

His admiration for The Edge might have been a "keeping up with the Jonses" kind of thing.

keeping up with the Evans

Or maybe he just mentioned the Edge (if he did) because he was a popular guitarist at the time that people imitated. I mean, one of the few contemporary drummers I ever heard Peart express his admiration for was the dude from Live, of all bands, and I suspect that was c. the first Live album, when the band had a little buzz but no buzzkill. They were on the radio, and maybe someone gave him the album and he wanted to seem "hip" to what the kids were into.

unrelated but that makes me think of tom verlaine namechecking warpaint in one of his most recent interviews

I feel like I remember a guitar mag interview from the Vapor Trails era where Lifeson talked about the Edge's influence on him.

That's almost like Hendrix saying the hack from Janis joplins group influenced him. Wtf.

You might think The Edge is a shitty guitar player, but he's a shitty guitar player with a very identifiable approach—one that was definitely picked up by Lifeson on a song here and there.

(For the record, I don't think The Edge is a shitty guitar player. In fact, he and EVH were my biggest influences when I was first sorting out how to play a guitar at age 13.)

I defer to you , sir, as I have no abilities on guitar whatsoever. Edge could be Segovia for all I know.

"That was early Police influence. Their rhythms, their sounds… It was as exciting as when Cream came out. For us, it was a matter of using those new wave influences in ways that enhanced, but didn't degrade, what we were doing.

"There was the Edge too. What he did with the echo pedal is beyond measure. Yeah, the Edge and Andy Summers were very high on my list in those days. Still are."

http://www.guitarworld.com/rush-vital-signs-0?page=0,1

Can't listen to Bravado without hearing a U2 influence.

the Edge is a fucking excellent guitarist who writes shitty songs for a shitty band. absolutely nobody dislikes U2 more than me but the Edge is a really good player.

Really interesting to see you say that, Aero. I think the Edge is a really cool guitarist, but I've never rated him much as a player. He is the best Edge we will ever get, but it's kind of a means to an end compromise - he can do his one thing and really nothing else. The more I learn about his playing, the less I sort of respect it. Every song is pretty much wed to its one set of lots of effects, a unique combo of pedals and amps and other stuff. And he can't play those songs without that unique combination of stuff and gadgets. Which is cool, in its own right, but I've never heard anything from the Edge to make me think he could sit in with any band but U2.

Again, LOOOOOVE the effects. And also like/love U2 a lot. Just don't think of him as much of a player, as opposed to., I don't know, a human synth. Esp. vs Summers, who is as technically adept as it gets.

no I'd agree with that, I have a broad definition of "excellent guitarist" (should probably not have said "player" - yr right that that term generally means "can play whatever, with whoever") that includes having crafted a distinctive enough sound that it belongs to you. I think the early U2 stuff had a pretty nice approach but yeah, he is the sum of his gear

Lifeson definitely has a gearhead side to his playing that probably came a lot from guys like Summers and The Edge.

Or Gilmour. Or Page. Or whomever. But again, by the time Lifeson was likely to be hearing the Edge, he was nearly a decade and several albums into his career. In the sense that dudes weren't really using too much delay or echo in that kind of context before U2 and Police, sure, but I've always heard a ton of the Police, specifically, in Rush, but virtually no U2. Especially the way Lifeson offers these swooping washes of weird chord sound to fill space.

I'd like to think that Lifeson had also run across John McGeoch, but I've always thought there was a hidden Siouxsie influence in how Rush was structuring songs around this time.

Have much more mixed feelings about the Edge these days - was actually put off by his segment in the It Might Get Loud. Classic case of being adrift and unfocused once you have all the gear money can buy. I went through a phase of listening to a lot of 1991/1992 live bootlegs and being happily surprised whenever he cuts loose and makes a statement, but nothing since has the excitement and urgency of say War. There's a great bit in the movie when Edge is playing "I Will Follow" then Page jumps in and instantly it's Led Zep.

Is that the bit where Page and White watch a bemused Edge and you can practically see them pretending to be impressed?

Lifeson's solos when I saw Rush were the high point of the show for me - they were so engaged and present, just gorgeous and exciting

one of the (many) great things about rush is that they've always been totally open about pretty much everything (and haven't had cause to regret it).

could lifeson play rings around the edge? perhaps, but that doesn't mean he couldn't learn anything from him. and the same thing with geddy and peart, who seems to be always honing his craft.

learning stuff is never a negative

Lifeson definitely has a gearhead side to his playing that probably came a lot from guys like Summers and The Edge.

― odd proggy geezer (Moodles), Friday, July 4, 2014 12:46 PM (10 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

He'd ready done a shitload of kickass stuff before either guy put anything on wax

. . . therefore he should ignore them

I see what you are trying to Do and don't buy it. I'm merely saying lifeson may have been influenced by those guys , but when all is said and done they would be lucky to shine his shoes. Just like Bradshaw should be kissing greene's and lambert's and ham's ass for eternity

musicians should only be influenced by people that are better than them rite

Lifeson shoulda pulled up next to Edge in a go-cart and been all "yo I play better'n you bitch"

Yes you've pinned downy exact thoughts. I'll let you post my comments for me from now on. You definitely have the intelligence suggested by your name.

lol you've been Awfully Good since the whole ade 'fiasco' but now you've gone Too Far

I feel bad for you. You're a moron. You seem to dislike me but I have no clue who you are. You're kind of meaningless

Not you mookiproof. That was meant for Neanderthal. Xpist

Xpost

cool opinions bro

I have no problem with mookie even though we often disagree

<3

I'll try to clarify. Even if Lifeson is "influenced" by the Edge, I don't think he's influenced by the Edge's playing so much as by the Edge's use of effects. As opposed to, once again, a technical master like Summers, whose playing and trademarks (and effects) you hear all over Lifeson's playing. That said, I think there are a host of guitarists influenced by the Edge in the same way, because as far as actually playing goes, there's not much to the Edge. Nothing wrong with that. I like U2. But I know the Edge was influenced by Stuart Adamson, and not only can you hear that influence, you can also hear, in Adamson, how a more technically accomplished guitarist might benefit from some of the same tricks the Edge invokes.

But anyway, yeah, back to Lifeson, he's the rare musician - and again, maybe it's his relative of ego - who seems really open to new ideas and approaches, even if you don't necessarily hear it in his playing, Almost like being influenced by a book or movie; maybe it affects how he plays but not how he sounds.

(U2 would be a lot cooler if the Edge every once in a while could unleash a Lifeson-esque gonzo solo. This is yet another example of Summers influence, but imagine if the Edge was capable of sneaking a solo ike the one that starts around 2:25.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuqSjKgq3Sk&feature=kp

Neanderthal however is a chump who is like a flea that you just can't get rid of no matter how hard you try. Annoying as fuck but ultimately harmless.

http://static.gigwise.com/gallery/flea-naked.jpg

I'll try to clarify. Even if Lifeson is "influenced" by the Edge, I don't think he's influenced by the Edge's playing so much as by the Edge's use of effects.

otm - he still comes across as Lifeson, just w/ different sonic flourishes

David Gilmour much had done the cascading delay sound on "Run Like Hell" which was before The Police or U2. Robert Fripp had also done other delay experiments both with Brian Eno and in King Crimson. I'd imagine what those guys were doing was also in Lifeson's ear too.

I think a big reason for Alex Lifeson going for a guitar sound inspired by Andy Summers and The Edge's sound is that with Rush's sound getting more synth based it fit that mix. Those old Oberheim and Roland synths can take up a huge amount of real estate in a mix, don't think was really as much need for that humbucker crunch from the earlier records. Rush if anything was pretty gear whorish and I'm sure the 80s rack guitar gear was pretty appealing in the same way as the sequencers, synths and Simmons drums.

Interestingly, U2 was never much of a synth band. The Edge was the synth. With the Police, the more synths there were, the less Summers there generally was going on. Like, what is Summers even doing on "Every Little Thing She Does is Magic?"

Anyway, Summers absolutely was listening to Gilmour and Fripp. he regularly cites Gilmour's acoustic work in particular and Fripp c. "Red." But the Edge? I still don't hear it. Fripp and Gilmour and Summers were all pre-Edge, and I can't imagine what the Edge brought to the Rush equation that all those other guys hadn't already brought.

David Gilmour much had done the cascading delay sound on "Run Like Hell" which was before The Police or U2.

FWIW, "Run Like Hell" was on "The Wall," which was 1979, the year after the first Police album, and the same year as U2's debut stuff. But sure, Gilmour had done plenty with echo and delay before that. So had others. but not quite in the same way as Summers or the Edge.