Morrissey really seriously ill?

aw :(

it's all <3 on ILX xcept for the usual todgers

Tell it like it is, it is sophomoric peasant stupidity and anything above that is too fucking generous.

― xelab, Tuesday, June 24, 2014 11:18 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

The logic is quite simple:

If you wish death on someone, I'll think you're a cunt.
If you're a racist, I'll think you're a cunt.

Since I've established in my mind that xelab is a cunt, I'll happily settle for being a "stupid, sophomoric peasant" in his. No biggie.

you didn't elucidate the Hitler thing tho

i mean you understand the notion that wishing death on someone implies that they may be considered worthy of moral censure whereas racism is immoral top to bottom, right?

"my agitas" !!!

"rascist" is the most puzzling misspelling

like, one of those things is a largely rhetorical device to express the strongest possible disapproval of a person, possibly on ethical grounds, whereas the other is dimwitted attribution of negative qualities to a vast group of unidentified people based on perceived phenotypes?

if correctly diagnosed

a slightly more complex point but i'm addressing the statements as argued

a fixation on an idealized british past which has over time turned into a sort of creepy nationalism.

this is racism, right? how can it not be racism?

true, XP and non xp

bet he blames his Irish blood for the racism

yeh really he's just pining for the days before dammit i was gonna say Henry II but tbh you had Vikings running amok before we got our oar in

that tricky moment when you try to work out who was the original peoples who sprung fully formed from the soil before all the waves of outcomers fetched up

I need da croupier to return and work up an entire parody of my adidas. or at least a verse.

formorians iirc can't recommend the prehistory legends enough tbh

god, the internet makes people so awful. except for morrissey. he was awful before the internet.

xp

i remember bits of that stuff either from learning to decipher Finnegans Wake or from playing Tir Na Nog on the Spectrum, most likely the latter

something bout y'all being Phoenicians or Spaniards or something too

irish blood racist heart

Carthaginian Blood, Formorian Heart wd've been more fun to scan

well i don't think morrissey's 'fixation on an idealized past' would be very similar to that of the national front (or churchill, or whoever). he's not nostalgic for the empire, he's nostalgic for a made-up fantasy britain based on all the cultural stuff he likes. but there's no denying that there seems to be a link between that and the nationalistic streak he's displayed since, which otherwise seems hard to fathom given his professed socialism, anti-royalism, etc.

I feel like European nationalism always contains at least a grain of the idea of "national stock," which is imaginary, of course, but it imagines a racial aspect of Englishness or frenchness or whatever.(In france, isn't it "de souche"?) I mean, maybe not always, but the origins of European nationalism are in this idea, right?

the nation state is locked into that idea imo

otherwise it wd just be a state

I was trying to not get all nationalism is racism, man, but yeah

like, one of those things is a largely rhetorical device to express the strongest possible disapproval of a person, possibly on ethical grounds, whereas the other is dimwitted attribution of negative qualities to a vast group of unidentified people based on perceived phenotypes?

― clockpuncher (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, June 24, 2014 11:31 PM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Speaking as a white British person whose stepmother is Asian (and has siblings who are mixed race), and whose girlfriend is also Asian, it's safe to say that I do understand the difference, and certainly if a person was to haul ethnic slurs their way I'd be understandably incensed. Would I wish death on that person, though? Certainly not, but I'd most definitely think that person was a cunt.

I mean, to say Morrissey's "you can't help but feel the Chinese are a subspecies" didn't go down well with me is an understatement. It very much angered me. But even with that in mind, I could never bring myself to sit here and say "I hope that fucker dies".

Not sure that having Asians in the family qualifies you as being able to say anything other than that you have Asians in the family tbh

He said "Speaking as" not "I have a qualification"

it's a little weird how several people in this thread have noted regretfully that "the Chinese are a subspecies" is the most damning thing Morrissey has said and then gone on to say he's not that bad/it's not clear that he's racist. what exactly does a person have to do to count as racist, then? is it that there's only one totally clear-cut remark? it's enough, isn't it? it almost seems like people are noting it and then overlooking it.

i say this as someone who has every Smiths lyric memorized for life, btw.

I know it's really late in the UK but that's not keeping me from chuckling at the total silence in response to horseshoe's post

I need da croupier to return and work up an entire parody of my adidas. or at least a verse.

deeply flattered someone would ask for MORE yuks from me, but i'm gonna wait until mozz is in the clear before going too far in satirizing his health scares

oh I missed that that's what you were referring to! i thought his agita was about being accused of racism or something.

If you read what I wrote I said that morrissey is not a far right crank. The "subspecies" crack is clearly racist.

Sorry I had to eat dinner b4 responding

you said it seemed the "most indefensible" of his statements, but that seemed to be for the purpose of casting doubt on the other questionable things he's said. i guess my point is that identifying a group of people as a subspecies is indefensible, full stop. even if he'd spent the rest of his life/solo career not being so fucking irritating/"provocative" about race.

morrissey's definitely become a crank, and i think he deliberately flirts with far-right rhetoric. i don't really care anymore whether he's a true believer in his heart.

He's always been a crank. But he's not some stereotypical mosely clone or fascist as xelab would have it. His views are too idiosyncratic for that.

perhaps I should have just said "worst" instead of "most indefensible"? Difference seems minor to me but ok.

one the one hand we could really dive deep and unpack the idiosyncrasies in the racist shit morrissey says

on the other we could just be like morrissey is a shitty old racist who was in a good band back in the day and vauxhall and i is a pretty good record, sucks that he is a shitty old racist

if you need that new morrissey material in your life so bad that you are doing some dope mental jiu jitsu to un-racist all the racist shit he says then man i don't know take an inventory or something

pwnd

Remember, no listening to James Brown either.

of the available racisms his is of course artistic, perhaps even artisanal

I understand reading "Bengali in Platforms" as racist but it's open to interpretation imho (is the narrator being patronizing, or admonishing, etc. it isn't really obvious)

I'm not sure I can see a non-racist interpretation of "Shelve your Western plans and understand that life is hard enough when you belong here".

I think an Indian artist should write a riposte song, "White Liberal in a Sari".

That'd show him.

Thing is nobody was saying that he is "far-right", just that he is a shitty poisonous racist cunt, which doesn't seem that arguable to me unless you're so keen to make excuses for him that you wanna overlook the shitty poisonous racist cuntish things he keeps saying. Beyond that I don't have much interest in exploring the nuances of this horrible man's personal politics. He is probably pretty right wing tho.

left-wing people are never racist? gimme a break

Well exactly