Programming as a career

Programming is the worst

DevOps is the worst.

Software Engineer USA™

we like to pretend we're architects and engineers and builders but we're really more like apprentice mechanics or those dudes that assemble pre-made furniture half the time

programming is great if functions and syntax are well documented. it is the worst thing imaginable otherwise.

I do enjoy the critical thinking parts of my mind that were unlocked by learning CS theory and programming over a period of time, but it really chafes me to see software developers think that they're able to solve non-software societal problems with that toolkit

professional googlers

Oh, I forgot that one. Software Architect. Classic.

I much rather SysAdmin, coder, developer, webmonkey/webmaster, script kiddie

Mind you, my end goal is probably to be a 'Software Architect', so I should lol carefully

yeah, really smart or tricky code makes you seem like a wizard but what it really makes you is an asshole if it's ever meant to be maintained

pretty sure my coding style has gotten progressively dumber on purpose

^^ thank you

I think software/systems architect is a fine title, even if my actual designs-buildings-and-structures friend recoils in disgust. I hate when people introduce themselves as "architects" without the qualifier.

Now, the part of the business where people use "architect" as a verb... not so good.

I do enjoy the critical thinking parts of my mind that were unlocked by learning CS theory and programming over a period of time, but it really chafes me to see software developers think that they're able to solve non-software societal problems with that toolkit

― a strange man (mh), Monday, June 9, 2014 5:09 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

they probably also think they can throw together that application in a matter of a few days

programmers are horrible estimators

working with computers makes people feel very powerful because computers are powerful

bring back punch cards

ya, it's just funny because in canada you're not really allowed to use "software engineer", because, well, you're not an engineer. but in the states, it's quite common

I feel like 'engineer' is fair

you are designing and building something more abstract, but you are still designing and building something

I should be a software architect because I have all the artistic pretensions that building architects have

interesting how engineer and developer have become prominent as the job has become less about programing

you should be an engineering software architect or an architecture software engineer.

my dad once purchased landscaping software from a barnes & noble. i sometimes think about the people who developed that software.

i dunno, engineering would imply a discipline that's way more predictable than software. there's no ISO manual you can check that tells you the number of tests you need per 1,000 lines of java.

They might as well claim to be 'magicians of our modern age' and finish the job.

pretty sure metrics for unit test coverage in large companies are getting there

Yeah but are they as useful as "minimum cross-section for structs on suspension bridge given expected load" etc etc, I mean physical engineers actually know things

Programmers - the next job to become demand-weakened by too many people who enjoy it ad thus do it for free

That will never happen, I don't believe there are enough psychos out there who also love programming that'll fit the demand

as a cs student, I'm really not feeling the hyperactive "hackathon/build a startup in a day/be the next zuckerberg" horseshit mentality that i fear dominates. I mean, it's obvious that I'm doing this in order to get a job, why do i have to care about forming a startup

it's difficult, because you do need to keep up on new technologies and development practices, but to do so you end up viewing/reading/attending material that has an overlap with people who are WE ALL MUST MAKE NEW BUSINESSES and it's irritating

I guess the larger tech-oriented gatherings don't have that problem, but then you're at Microsoft's Build conference or JavaOne or whatever the fuck people go to these days

Every year my dad never fails to ask me to go to this one Oracle conference with him

on the bright side, the huge corporate ones usually have really cheesy entertainment

I think I went to one yeeeears ago with Mini Kiss, Battlebots, and a Rolling Stones cover band.

Silicon Valley Techno-Utopianism

programmers are horrible estimators

Guilty as charged.

Can I still charge by the hour though?

^Just call yourself a consultant instead of a freelancer and you should be good

Every year my dad never fails to ask me to go to this one Oracle conference with him

programming as a carer

Being a programmer means being the smartest guy in the room while taking requirements from the dumbest guy in the room.

If I had to do it all again...I wouldn't.

Can we swap careers? Because I can tell you that doing IT support for 15 years has sucked way more than I imagine being a programmer would have.

xp the zuck is definitely portrayed as an asshole in The Social Network, but his attitude toward those twins was basically otm and well aligned with your feelings I am guessing.

Programmers are the magicians of the modern age

― calstars, Sunday, June 8, 2014 2:36 PM

I wish I had have given up on both attempts at programming and IT careers long before they happened

On my desk at work I have five (count 'em) Blackberrys rebuilding while I curse the chimps who made BES.

I wish I had have given up on both attempts at programming and IT careers long before they happened

otm

i'd love to know what i was doing now in the alternate universe where i never thought "spending every evening staring at the computer" was in any way sufficient grounding for an attempted (flunked) CS degree or IT career

I'm going to be doing a lot less programming per se, after finally having mastered Windows desktop app development (after yeeeears of mostly-backend web development and deployment) I have accepted a position as an enterprise service bus developer. So I'll be connecting services and defining queues and working with project teams to determine how to hook their projects up to the ecosystem.

fwiw I don't think I've ever felt a business client was dumb, although moments where they might not understand the concepts they're asking for me to implement has definitely happened

I wish all the luck to anyone having a rough time of it with their job, though!

hi guys

do u mind not bumping this thread the week I go back to 14 hr days studying evenings in computer science PS yr new job sounds boss mh

computer science is awesome and is not just programming so you are good

feel like programming is better than it used to be. wish we'd had unit tests and code reviews when i was a programmer, i wouldn't have sucked so bad.

So there's some low-level programming being done but it's being broadly reused because very few studios will build their own engine from scratch rather than licensing Unreal or Unity.

i don't think many large engineering orgs are writing new userland code in C proper.

os/device level is another matter.

but C++ will never die, partly through legacy systems, but partly because it's what e.g. pytorch and tensorflow are implemented in. and C is a prereq for most C++ dev work.

the closer i've got to ml platform and infra, the more jobs i see that i can't apply to because i don't know c++

modern c++ is actually pretty decent. i picked it up on the side over the past year or so since qt in c++ is the only option for desktop linux applications (lol) that doesn't make me want to walk off a cliff.

i think everyone should give it another look, esp if it's preventing you from applying for cool shit

I've got back into c++ recently, and loving it. sadly not for any career aspect, i don't think I could handle the pressure of applying it to in a job.

So, uh, do I need to start thinking about a third career?

I've been thinking the same lately, or maybe going back to my second career. My job search is lasting much longer than I hoped

But at least I got a story from it. I recently applied for a position where they had me take this homegrown multiple-choice online assessment which was straight up hilarious - couple questions flat out had no correct answer, couple more ambiguous, and several arcane code questions where they ask what the output would be but you can just execute the code in a browser and see the correct response. They scheduled me for an interview and then I saw they have literally the lowest rating on Glassdoor I've seen: 1.6 out of 5. Thought about cancelling but deciding to just do it for the practice. Place looked awful and all work is onsite. Company owner asked me a few things illegal to ask during an interview. Backend is a software I've never heard of that was apparently discontinued in 2007. They were even hesitant to tell me the benefits when I asked - turns out they have no PTO or sick days for one year, no insurance for three months! They did send me an offer that's at the very bottom of the range I was asking but I decided not to bother going further, I feel like there's no guarantee they'd even pay me

smdh JS:

-1 % -1
-0

Fortunately -0 === 0 but still: lol

unary+ converts an array or boolean to a number
double negation converts an array to a boolean

+[] == 0
+!![] == 1

the video silby linked eons ago that's mostly about javascript still pops into my head
https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/wat

saw somebody yesterday claiming

"2" + "2" - "2" = 20

which i guess works if + on strings is append but - is subtract

I've started looking again (thankfully a voluntary search this time), but I've been whiffing pretty badly so far. Just 3 phone screens, and nothing beyond that (though I'm not applying every day), and one thing that I've noticed is that I hate the "walk me through a complex project you've worked on" prompt. Maybe this is confirmation bias but I feel like every time I get asked that, the interviewer is at best unimpressed with my answer. What exactly do they want to hear? (Obviously that depends on whether it's an HR person vs. someone on the tech side, but I don't think I've success with either.) If I'm being honest with myself, I don't think I have any impressive projects in my career, but maybe I'm not being generous to myself?

Imo the point of that question is to demonstrate some combination of: you are good at explaining something, you have done actual work, you made technical decisions, you worked effectively in a team, you worked effectively with limited direct supervision, you worked effectively with legacy code. It’s not to dazzle the interviewer with like “I wrote full self driving for Tesla!” Just pick something from the most recent gig that you can explain what you did and what the impact was.

For a phone screen, I don't really know what they'd be looking for. Probably some combo of impact and your importance to the team? I've never been asked that question on a screen

But in a technical interview, I've struggled a bit with that question. The only project I've worked on that truly felt complex was in a 16-developer team but I only worked on a couple parts of it in depth and I struggle to explain the project in full

I should mention I did finally get a senior SWE job late last year which I'm still working in now. So far so good: place is a bit behind in tech stack but the people are good to work with and open to improvements. Very relieved to be out of the search for now

I tend not to ask candidates variants of "toughest challenge" or "hardest bug", but if I were to, here's what I would look for:

- Level of technical depth in at least one area engaging with the problem. As you engaged with it, what things did you bring to the table to help break it down? A decent understanding of databases? A clear understanding of how mobile a11y works? considerations around network protocols, latency, errors? Nuances and tradeoffs in web frameworks? Etc

- Field of view: How aware were you of how your work fit into the bigger picture, either with your teammates, your management chain, or other "crossfunctional stakeholders"/non-programmer types? Did you see flexibility in requirements where none was necessarily obvious, bring insight to others or learn insight from others that helped you resolve the challenge?

- What would you have done differently in retrospect, or what did this challenge teach you about how to engage with other challenges in the future?

Not all of everything needs to be present, and a lot somewhere is better than a little everywhere. But that's what I would look for.

One challenge is that the person evaluating you may know absolutely nothing about the domain you were working in. I am fortunate to have a pretty diverse background, but I see this sometimes when I get folks who have very specific experiences that I do not (working on network switches, or non-consumer systems, etc)