Rain On the ScarePOLL - The John Mellencamp "Scarecrow" Poll

Looking at Petty and Mellencamp, something interesting is that, chartwise, Petty never had a run like Mellencamp from American Fool to The Lonesome Jubilee, either in albums or singles. Yet Petty's greatest hits is diamond and sold three times as many copies as Mellencamp's.

As far as Bowie, his songs were never played on classic rock radio in my hometown. Totally the least scientific sample, obviously. Was Bowie on classic rock playlists, then or now? Definitely everyone else mentioned recently in this thread lived on in the classic rock format.

the rockinger stuff like suffragette city or jean genie was on classic rock

yes, though i think i hear him more now than then. 'space oddity', 'changes', 'ziggy stardust', 'fame', and 'golden years' all were standards, i'd hear 'young americans', 'suffragette city', 'jean genie', and 'rebel rebel' some as well.

I didn't seriously get into Bowie until 1991, but I don't remember him being thought of as "uncool" at all. Fwiw, he never left "classic rock" playlists in Chicago.

I do remember hearing stories in 1993 or whenever of NIN fans leaving shows en masse before Bowie's set, leaving half-empty arenas, but don't know how true those were.

my AOR station played those ("Fame" excepted) and "Modern Love." I have a vague memory of "Day-In Day Out" getting play too but not recurrent

I do remember hearing stories in 1993 or whenever of NIN fans leaving shows en masse before Bowie's set, leaving half-empty arenas, but don't know how true those were.

Partly true. SPIN awarded him Worst Comeback of the Year:

http://bowiesongs.wordpress.com/2013/05/02/outside-tour-the-nine-inch-nails-duets/

Good to know. I suppose I'm not surprised that rural Illinois stations were avoiding Bowie, though now that I think about it I recall hearing "Fame" a couple of times.

yeah alot of nin fans weren't totally on board w/ bowie but alot of pearl jam fans weren't totally on board w/ neil young either. his brand was a hell of a lot cooler than it was in 1987.

Reeves Gabrels described the audiences at the NIN/Bowie shows as a changing of the tribes. When NIN was playing, most of the Bowie fans were in the lobby; when Bowie was on, the NIN fans went to the lobby, or just left. So Bowie had keep up the momentum of the NIN sets or he’d soon face rows of empty seats. At times it didn’t work: only half the audience remained by the end of one Meadowlands show, and in Seattle “most of Bowie’s newer stuff left the crowd arm-crossingly bored,” Bogle wrote. Bowie tightened his performances, pushed his band. “We had to adjust emotionally to the fact that we were going to be challenged every night,” he said. “It did help me understand a certain aesthetic that was needed to do live performances in front of younger crowds.” Alford recalled to Marc Spitz that this tension is what “made it seem real for David…not knowing what the audience would do at the end of each song.”

The Outside tour generally got fair to poor reviews. Hearing the likes of “Voyeur of Utter Destruction” and “I’m Deranged” for the first time on stage, some reviewers found the new songs incoherent and unmemorable. The Philadelphia Inquirer: Charged with bringing life to his dim new works, Bowie looked like a stiff, robot-ish shell of his former self. This was…the sound of a lost soul, an artist so determined to position himself “ahead” of the culture that he’d neglected the basics. Like songwriting.” The New York Times: “His new songs are oddly made, as if designed to envelop the listener rather than to leave catchy memories…[Bowie] was trying to hold together songs that seemed to dissolve before they ended.”

When the tour moved to the UK in November 1995, with Morrissey now (briefly) the opening act, Bowie’s fight against nostalgia grew more pitched, as he lacked the potential young converts the NIN gigs had brought him.4 Christopher Sandford, attending one of the Wembley gigs, recalled seeing businessmen in hospitality suites, drinking wine and networking, while a raving Bowie performed below them. Fans came dressed as Ziggy Stardust and Halloween Jack and got “Small Plot of Land” instead.

On a similar tip, I saw Cheap Trick open for the Smashing Pumpkins on the Adore tour and the crowd's reaction verged from bored and annoyed to outright hostile.

let's not forget this was all over radio

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fregObNcHC8&feature=kp

in retrospect amazing we didn't get a big bowie tribute album

we did get the 50th birthday concert, which was also a careful piece of brand preservation

Every clip I've seen of the Outside tour impressed me.

Guaranteed casual Bowie fan oh-well-let's-get-a-beer moment:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wT0d_-Po8OE

Bruce definitely had a rough 90s

i think it's more like he sat out the '90s on purpose, though. if you count human touch and lucky town as one album, then between that and tom joad he released a grand total of two albums of new material in the decade, one with slim commercial prospects and one with none at all (plus the great "philadelphia," making it clear he still had it in him). he toured a lot less. presumably he spent a good deal of time in there raising his kids. then, his kids having gotten through the terrible twos more or less, he reunited his band and reinvented himself into the perpetually touring rock legend that he's been ever since, now trading largely off his past rather than his present, while also becoming more prolific in the studio than he'd ever been before. not a bad arc really. i would love for him to release his love & theft or his american recordings one of these days, though.

Did Cougs have any kids in the 90s? I know he had a heart attack, but he kept working like a motherfucker.

@fcc I mean, it seems obvious in retrospect that HT/LT had slim commercial prospects, but did it feel that way at the time? It had 6 singles and 4 videos. I feel like those albums had a strong marketing push, but didn't connect because they were Springsteen's weakest works and he was maybe out of place in the early 90s music landscape.

Ghost of Tom Joad, on the other hand, definitely felt like a noncommercial move, with 1 single/video and a solo acoustic tour in smaller venues.

Bruce himself has said he lost his way in the 90s, in terms of coming up with a band sound that fits with the times. He definitely took himself out of it, but he was still hugely popular. I remember the long lines at Ticketmaster in NJ the day his 1999 E Street Reunion tour went on sale. That wasn't happening for anyone else.

I do wish we had a new guy in this style. The Springsteen/Seger/Petty/Mellencamp guy who writes hit songs.

that model's disappeared.

I know. It's been gone for 20+ years.

I'm with you kornrulez, but it also kind of feels like wishing for a big band jazz outfit who writes hit songs.

do you want the Squirrel Nut Zippers to hear you?

haha

I do wish we had a new guy in this style. The Springsteen/Seger/Petty/Mellencamp guy who writes hit songs.

The guys you're looking for all live in Nashville now and wear dumb hats.

http://forum.maplewoodonline.com/uploads/FileUpload/50/0e2f6ea120d5d47727f8ecb2343aff.jpg

lookin' bad, Tom

well, you guys aren't wrong. Miranda Lambert's recorded a series of Coug-esque rockers.

@fcc I mean, it seems obvious in retrospect that HT/LT had slim commercial prospects, but did it feel that way at the time? It had 6 singles and 4 videos. I feel like those albums had a strong marketing push, but didn't connect because they were Springsteen's weakest works and he was maybe out of place in the early 90s music landscape.

they did have a big marketing push, that's true, and he was still a megastar, but he was not the same megastar he had been seven or eight years earlier and it was fairly obvious, even at the time, which way his pendulum was swinging. he had waited five years to follow up tunnel of love, an album that was already quieter and smaller in both its sound and its impact than born in the usa. he pissed a lot of people by firing his band. he pissed some other people off by getting divorced and quickly remarrying. the pop landscape had changed, a lot, and in no way where either of the 1992 albums pop albums in any way that a 1992 pop audience would understand, and it seems clear to me that he and his people were very much aware of that, in real time. he launched his u.s. tour for the albums with a long run of shows in new jersey, most of which did not sell out. during the tour, he frequently joked about his age and about his disappearance from the pop charts. only two singles, both from human touch, charted in the u.s., one at #16 and one at #68. the #68 was "57 channels," which was a very strange-sounding song as bruce springsteen went, intentionally so i believe. i think, at least to some extent, he was consciously turning his back on a part of himself.

Miami New Times wrote a sardonic account of that night's show; it took him to town for playing with L.A. geezers and working the crowd too damn hard for third-rate material.

http://img2-1.timeinc.net/ew/covergallery/img/1992/jun51992_121_lg.jpg

working the crowd too damn hard for third-rate material

dude has always worked a crowd way too hard; that's part of his appeal. but, yeah, i think what once looked youthful and exuberant and loose was starting to look labored around that time, and laboring on behalf of material that doesn't reward the labor is always a chore.

he pissed a lot of people by firing his band.

This was the big thing. Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band is a lot better than Bruce Springsteen and the LA Session Guys.

Also, the 90s alternative rock guys who were huge at the time didn't have a big Springsteen influence. There were no Cobain covers of Badlands.

lol i'm reminded of the bruce mcculloch joke - 'our love is like a bruce springsteen concert. it's not that great, it's really long, but wow! what energy!'

I remember hearing Rage Against the Machine's cover of "The Ghost of Tom Joad" on some "alternative" station, and the dj smirked, "You guys would've never guessed; that song was originally done by (snicker) Bruce Springsteen! Remember that guy? Ugh!"

there's still a certain segment of gen x that would be befuddled to find out springsteen became cool again

and i can remember hearing dave grohl in an interview trash springsteen and the interviewer being kinda shocked and asking 'you don't like the boss?' and grohl responding 'who's boss? HE'S NOT MY BOSS!', it was the first of many clues that dave grohl is a tool. this wasn't long after the brief window when it looked like he might become tom petty's new drummer.

I asked on one of the threads whether anyone – anywhere – has made a case for HT or LT as "better than you remember!" albums. At Stylus I dangled these treats in front of writers and no one bit.

"Ghost of Tom Joad" is a horrible song no matter who wrote it.

HT and LT could be condensed into a single album that's solid, but still weaker than Tunnel or Tom Joad.

"human touch" is a way better SINGLE than i originally thought. my impression when it came out was that it, along with much of the two albums, was self-parody, but today i'd rate it an A-plus springsteen single, and it remains one of my favorite springsteen live songs.

the albums as a whole still sound like parody to me, filled with rote arrangements and playing and way too much imagery of rivers and birds and other such stuff that makes me want to throw up onto my freshman poetry syllabus. but make it into a single album with "human touch," "living proof," "leap of faith," "if i should fall behind," "lucky town," "my beautiful reward" and a few others and it could be a mildly catchy document of the rock star approaching middle age.

His solo in "Human Touch" is solid.

absolutely!

Yes. Always loved the song Human Touch.

Didn't get to vote in this, but the top 3 would have been mine as well. And I love the album cuts, too. "Minutes to Memories", "Between A Laugh and A Tear", "Face Of A Nation". I played this a lot in 1985.

Heard Minutes to Memories on the radio for the first time in probably 20 years today. Holy fuck is that a great song.

Fantastic discussion upthread about Springsteen.

So...if he'd released HT/LT in '90 instead of '92, would they and its singles have been better received? Would he have had a Rhythm of the Saints moment i.e. "solid return and acclaim and sales" or gone The Razor's Edge and A Night on the Town? I tend to think that if the latter had happened, we'd remember TOL as a genuine New Jersey.

"rumbelseat" and "authority song" are about the only two post-1980 JCM songs that don't wear me out these days. and tbf the only pre-80 songs I can say for sure i know are "i need a lover" and "ain't even done with the night" but those are fucking dope k-classic all-timers imo

The third single is the worst.

A few days ago, WXRT in Chicago did a program on this album:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s47xRaz2AGk

Listening to it now, the program's probably not my thing, but if you're a huge fan of the album, hopefully it's a good listen - I never got the impression there was that much info out there on the making of Scarecrow.