Joy Division: Classic Or Dud?

Yup. I haven't been in a JD mood for a while, but when I am I just listen to the box set. I really like the track listing actually (singles, peel sessions and whatnot before and after Unknown Pleasures and Closer on Discs 1 & 2 respectively).

I'm normally a big one for lyrics but I think Ian Curtis' were pretty dire - all that Ballard-rip-off stuff and the existential pomp of it all. Salvaged a bit by his voice, which I do like a lot. I don't even think "Atmosphere" has good lyrics. "Love Will Tear Us Apart" has BRILLIANT lyrics which from an artistic p.o.v. is the saddest thing about his death - that it seems like a breakthrough in terms of writing humane but unflinching stuff about relationships. But lyrically, generally, dud.

But the music! Bloody hell - the drive and claustrophobia and dynamics and Martin Hannett's production....it's extraordinary. A lot of it is Hannett and I think it's a shame that AFAIK I'm the first person to mention him in this thread. But that band could motor - "Dead Souls", for example, where the lyrics are pretty much irrelevant next to the huge concrete smack of the music. No, for the music, classic.

exactly.

Heh. Well I'm already getting used to it, listening to it again.
I'm d/ling the whole box set right now. I only ever had Substance growing up.
That was a little jarring the first time I heard it - a little alarm went off.
It totally sounds like he just fucked up a couple times and never got around to overdubbing it.
But then the song's called "Disorder" so whatever.

ihttp://users.net1plus.com/steff/ian3.jpg

Just downloaded the video of JD playing "Transmission" on a television show in September 1979. Extremely disturbing to watch -- Curtis looks terribly ill in it, and it is edited very obviously so that one sees as little of him as possible.

"Transmission" is the greatest song of all time.

I'm not sure if I could rock an Ian Curtis bookbag, but I at least want the option.

That's a really flattering picture of Ian Curtis. Cool.

And Joy Division = classic classic classic.

I mean, "Transmission" and "Love Will Tear Us Apart" are absolutely essential & classic tunes, but as a whole, I just don't get it. I also agree with Tom's assessment that lyrically they're pretty dire, but would also add that I think Hannet's production on the drums was not up to snuff; they sound more often than not like full jugs of water. I'm basing all of this on Substance, BTW.

ARAGHADFADFGA HDFASDFASD.

(That was my inarticulate expression of jealousy. Please note my comments about "Transmission" at the start of the thread.)

The great thing about Tom's argument is that it's a FINE argument for why lyrics need not be paramount. ;-)

GET UNKNOWN PLEASURES AND CLOSER NOW THEN DAMMIT!!!

Likewise the "Dance, dance, dance, dance, dance to the radio" in Transmission - a lyric so startlingly out of place here, seemingly flown in from a top 10 pop hit. Again the delivery is brutal.

Also "Where have they been? " (Decades)

Tom's point about LWTUA is well-made. Also Ceremony ("All she asks the strength to hold me/then again the same old story"). Actually these are brilliant lines, simply brilliant. Also the first line of the song is fantastic : "This is why events unnerve me".

-- Ned Raggett (ne...), September 16th, 2004.

OTM.

ANyway, Joy Division rocks! I still haven't picked up the box set, what's wrong with me, etc

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