Macklemore, "Same Love"

which is not to say that theyre like mackelm in other ways

3 years came out in march 92, illmatic april 94.

A GAME OF HORSESHOES

White critics weren't the only ones saying "save us, speech, you're are only hope" when G thang dropped

I think his point was that throughout the mid-90s when lots of great rap was still being overlooked by music critics, it kind of became emblematic of "This is the rap that white rock critics think is great, lol, c'mon!" Not that it was specifically being supported over Illmatic in 94, just kind of became Exhibit A of "White rock critics just don't understand"

Totally correct me if I'm wrong though.

Yeah it's just revisionist to pretend the enthusiasm was white only for a group loved by Randall Keenan, spike lee, Danyel smith, etc. plenty of black writers were glad for a popular alternative to gangsta

saying they were busy ignoring an album that wouldn't come out until AD dropped Zingalamaduni just reaffirms the perspective is askew

http://books.google.com/books?id=hcbFj_1xS7QC&pg=PA29&lpg=PA29&dq=arrested+development+children+of+the+revolution+spin&source=bl&ots=bNsf6QvEn2&sig=Xk3cxuayxfmKhZxEKBaKsY2Js5I&hl=en&sa=X&ei=A818U6W_N4TuoASYh4HgCA&ved=0CCYQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=arrested%20development%20children%20of%20the%20revolution%20spin&f=false

AD was so awful

in case anybody forgot

totally fascist, right?

AD & M/RL are comparable in as far as they're marketed as an alternative to the rap norm, and in that the spokespeople aren't as liberal-minded as the hype suggests, but it should be pretty obvious that a song like "Tennessee" is infinitely more heartfelt and refreshing a perspective than "Same Love."

AD & M/RL are comparable in as far as they're marketed as an alternative to the rap norm

Yeah, this is the only point I was originally trying to make. I wish I'd worded it like this.

well the idiotic part is assuming only white people can appreciate an alternative to the rap norm

in 3rd grade i thought i was a horseshoe because I was lucky and liked to be on the bottom of horses feet also my uncle was a horse

nay

PM Dawn and Arrested Development were two African American groups who dared to rhyme about things outside of rap's accepted narrative

Macklemore is a white musician borrowing a black artform to help confirm the pre-existing biases of smug white people.

Bringing their names into this is corny as fuck.

I WASN'T MAKING A QUALITATIVE COMPARISON JESUS CHRIST

omg strawman much whiney jeez

dared to rhyme about things outside of rap's accepted narrative

gtfo they were plenty accepted. unless you are KRS-One

can't believe people itt are arguing that Macklemore & Ryan Lewis sound just like Arrested Development. smdh.

Yeah it's just revisionist to pretend the enthusiasm was white only for a group loved by Randall Keenan, spike lee, Danyel smith, etc. plenty of black writers were glad for a popular alternative to gangsta

― da croupier, Wednesday, May 21, 2014 11:01 AM (56 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i didn't say ONLY white people liked it, just that a bunch of white people jumping on board who were ignoring the vast majority of the genre was what made it seem esp suspect

well the idiotic part is assuming only white people can appreciate an alternative to the rap norm

― da croupier, Wednesday, May 21, 2014 11:23 AM (36 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

the idiotic part is you projecting a strawman onto us

i didn't say ONLY white people liked it, just that a bunch of white people jumping on board who were ignoring the vast majority of the genre was what made it seem esp suspect

I would argue that it only seemed suspect to other white people

dared to rhyme about things outside of rap's accepted narrative

gtfo they were plenty accepted. unless you are KRS-One

― Οὖτις, Wednesday, May 21, 2014 11:58 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

KRS-One throwing Prince Be offstage was widely thought to be funny and was used in punchlines etc...to act like PM Dawn wasn't seen as soft or corny of...basically faggy....you weren't engaged in rap then or rap media

also why the hell are we having an authenticity argument about Arrested Development and PM Dawn on the Macklemore thread

I think Arrested was in general more in the tenor of a certain portion of hip hop culture at the time as I mentioned, and there were others to the left of even them like Divine Styler or Me Phi Me etc

btw who is Οὖτις,

def one of the worst thing on the nets these days is WP competing to demonstrate their deep understanding of racial politics, so over WP tbh

Poor Illmatic, I hope it recovered

it did whiney :)

maybe we should just wholesale turn this thread into "the evolution of Michael Franti" and call it a day

lol

Internet, drug of a nation

to act like PM Dawn wasn't seen as soft or corny of...basically faggy....you weren't engaged in rap then or rap media

oh they were seen like that yeah. People said the same shit about De La/Native Tongues, who also got into onstage fights, and are pretty widely regarded as canonical nowadays. PM Dawn were an easy target for other acts to position themselves as "harder than". But they still sold a lot of records, and I don't think it was entirely to white people who didn't otherwise listen to rap.

xp

I give the rich a giant tax loophole
I leave the poor living in a poophole

I'd argue that PM Dawn read more like a pop/R&B group but I don't think anyone on the Boomerang soundtrack can be accused of only being appealing to white people.

If you get really high and listen to PM Dawn loud it's fuckin awesome

that's my contribution to this discussion

i didn't say ONLY white people liked it, just that a bunch of white people jumping on board who were ignoring the vast majority of the genre was what made it seem esp suspect

I would argue that it only seemed suspect to other white people

― On-the-spot Dicespin (DJP), Wednesday, May 21, 2014 5:01 PM (30 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah i think this is key - esp when you consider that the person most credited for Illmatic's insta-canonical status is John Schecter. The shift feels way more generational than racial - it's not as if the Chronic didn't have a bunch of white people jumping on board who were also ignoring the vast majority of the genre.

FWIW the classic hip-hop stations in both LA and Phoenix still play Arrested Development from time to time; heard "Tennessee" and "Everyday People" multiple times. Can't recall ever hearing PM Dawn, though that doesn't mean it wasn't on the playlist.

ha i had no idea there was such a thing as an oldies rap station

neither did i, in fact i've been annoyed for a while that that's not yet a national radio trend

Yeah, not sure if KDAY in LA still is primarily classic hip-hop in format; it was when I left in 2011. Phoenix has "The Beat," which was all classic hip-hop in 2011 but is now a mix of new and old.

dead sirius

http://www.siriusxm.com/backspin

yeah the beat is pretty good!

there's some clear channel station in Los Angeles that plays "dusties" which in this case means classic r&b and hip hop (mostly the former, but some of the latter) from roughly 1970 to 1990. when i was there i listened to it constantly, heard lots of songs that i otherwise never hear on the radio, not just old school hip hop but mid-1980s freestyle, new jack swing, 1970s vocal groups, zapp and roger, etc.

I loved the Beat when I first moved to Phoenix, but they definitely started narrowing their classic playlists around 2012. Phoenix also has a classic 70s/80s R&B/funk station.

to bring this back on topic: all of the aforementioned genres/artists are better than macklemore. but you knew that.

i'm a little annoyed at the seeming presumption by some posters here that macklemore doesn't have many black fans. there are plenty of black folks who aren't particularly invested in hip hop and the policing of its boundaries and like a wide swath of pop music just like everyone else, which probably includes whatever macklemore song is riding the charts at the moment. implying or stating otherwise is stereotyping, kind of reminds me of the whole "why does black people not want to rock" thing.

Chicago has a dusties station but somehow their mix of music isn't as heady or varied as the one in Los Angeles. from what I recall it mostly sticks to what you might call "soul" (vocal groups, aretha, luther vandross, that type of thing) and doesn't have much straight funk, electro, or hip hop.

actually I dunno if the Chicago station still exists or, if it does exist, if it plays the same type of thing as it did a few years ago.