Trans/Genderqueer/Agender/Questioning Thread

xxp: Yeah, I've been kind of doing the opposite and openly changing my presentation in front of everyone while only really stopping to explain myself if asked other than a few confidants. On the other hand, I've started to reverting to introducing myself by my more feminine middle name which I was known by as a kid, rather than the more masculine first name I started going by in HS.

This gets a bit confused though, because I decided I'd continue to use my first name at work for simplicity's sake, but then I work for the tiny LGBTQ services component within a larger organization and it's like the other day I was tabling for them at a transgender film festival and I felt forced to use the name on my work materials I was handing out exactly when I would most like to use the other name. :/

(also btw, I bought my first pair of heels today and they're thiiiiiiiis cute)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BnaHl--CUAAz9AD.jpg

the rest of my outfit today (which I wore at work and to see my dad, since my sister apparently absconded my mom to the mountains without telling me and I wasn't able to see her on mothers day even tho I went to visit her, heh) although I wore flats, rather than the heels

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BnZaW1qCEAEnzD5.jpg

jic you miss it, make sure u peep my <3 earring

Yeah, names are tricky for me right now too; I still mostly introduce myself with my birth name when I don't feel like talking about being trans with people I've just met, which feels like backsliding, but hopefully that will change when I have a better sense of what I want to do with presentation. <3 the <3 earring, and the pattern of your heels seems to go really well with that of your jacket.

you look fly as fuck!

:)

so Justin Bond had some words on Facebook for the LGBT Word Police:

A Missive to My Community: I'm writing this because I want to be very clear on where I come down on the recent controversies around the language issues with regards to our trans-narratives. I've been an advocate for finding new, inclusive, thoughtful and evolved language for those of us in the trans and gender non-conforming communities for some time now. Therefore I feel personally compelled to weigh in on these latest dramas that are really annoying the shit out of me. In my opinion there is ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with Heklina changing the name of Trannyshack in an effort to "rebrand" her legendarily inclusive, irreverent celebration of Queer fabulousness. But keep in mind that the reason she has "evolved" is because she's been forced to due to harassment from a group of people who have decided that instead of learning from our queer history of re-appropriating, owning, and disempowering words that ACCURATELY DESCRIBE WHO AND WHAT WE ARE -instead of taking those words that are sometimes used to hurt us by those who WILL HATE US NO MATTER WHAT and making them a part of what makes us wonderful, a small group of vocal "queers" has decided it's better pursue a shame-based agenda. Therefore, it seems, Heklina has decided it's easier to "rebrand" her party to avoid any more grief. That's her decision and I applaud her for doing what she feels she needs to do. It still makes me sad. I also think there was nothing wrong with the whimsical "Female or Shemale" game played on RuPaul's Drag Race -especially because the contestants couldn't even tell the difference. Hello! That's revolutionary!!! Not to mention the amazing talent displayed later in the episode by the transgender artists on the show which has now been pulled from the air. So. In lieu of standing up to the haters who seek to diminish us and our accomplishments and standing UNITED IN PRIDE IN OUR DIVERSITY these thoughtless "word police" instead go on the attack and achieve easy victories by harassing, silencing and shaming members of their own community and the allies who are thoughtful and sensitive enough to the reasons and feelings behind their anger that they are willing to listen and -as usual, blame themselves and make the changes because it's just EASIER to "evolve" back into silent, bullied shame. What they fail to recognize is that by banishing the use of the word TRANNY they will not be getting rid of the transphobia of those who use it in a negative way. What it does do is steal a joyous and hard-won identity from those of us who are and have been perfectly comfortable, if not delighted to BE TRANNIES, but the fact is WE ARE NOT GOING AWAY. In case you didn't know it WE'RE TOUGH! A reality check, if people think you are a tranny it's because you are perceived as one. OWN IT! If they think that's a bad thing then THEY ARE STUPID! If you don't wish to own that word or any other word used to describe you other than "male" or "female" then I hope you are privileged enough to have been born with an appearance that will allow you to disappear into the passing world or that you or your generous, supportive family are able to afford the procedures which will make it possible for you to pass within the gender binary system you are catering your demands to. If you're capable of doing that then GO ON AND DISAPPEAR INTO THE PASSING WORLD! Otherwise quit using your big, privileged -yet ignorant- mouths to make the words used to describe who we are a shameful thing. It is not shameful to be a tranny, a she-male, or any other word used to desctibe a gender variant individual. It's shameful to harass people for being comfortable with who they are and the words they choose to use to describe themselves when you aren't. That is my opinion on this ridicuous subject. As you can tell I'm angered by this trifling bullshit. We should be working on unifying our community and getting ourselves basic protections under the law. If everyone who is expending so much time and energy harassing their sisters about this word would harass their elected officials with the same amount of verve and fervor we'd be on the way to a much more trans-inclusive society. These words were written in love and anger.

Mx Bond

As a brief counterpoint, Red Durkin on sexual assault and the ambiguities of the language debates v is alluding to: https://www.facebook.com/reddurkin/posts/10152428660888599

Do we really have to have the argument about the right to *self*-identify however a person damn well wants, vs the right of people who are called that epithet in anger, objecting to outsiders who are not part of that group throwing that term around?

Because I feel like ILX and indeed the whole internet has really already covered this in depth.

One would hope so, but the debate goes tediously on.

In more consequential news in the US, Medicare's blanket exclusion of coverage for transition-related procedures has been overturned, although the ruling doesn't affect Medicaid or private insurance plans: http://transequality.org/news.html#Medicare2014

xp - some of the people using that term are not outsiders! That is the crux of the complexity of the issue

http://www.lgbtsr.org/2014/05/30/the-truth-about-trans-slurs/

If we are looking at the use of trans* slurs through the lens that says people should be strong enough to stand up for themselves, that this is just a joke and people shouldn’t take it seriously, we are casting aside those people who are not strong enough. We have chosen strength as a measure of worth. Is that not the same exact choice that is made by bullies? Have we not, ourselves, become bullies to the ones who are harmed by the use of words like tranny and shemale?

Do you think in the last year that no gay teenagers took their own lives because they were repeatedly referred to as fags; that no young trans* person ended their life because someone was calling them tranny? Should I consider these tragedies to be unimportant? Is someone’s life less valuable because they are harmed by words that we don’t find personally offensive?

In happier news, my band's playing our local TransPride fundraiser in July.

Justin Bond, I am sad to say, can go kick rocks.

*sigh*

I saw a very insightful post somewhere else on the internet talking about how a lot of these debates break down to the intractable differences between "gay culture" incubated in gay bars and "queer culture" incubated in feminist spaces.

My blanket assumption in these cases (and certainly in this one in particular) is that gay male culture is always wrong.

I've talked with a couple friends who do drag and they're just adamant in defense of the t-word as Mx. Bond and also to a few transgender friends who find this defense totally unconscionable and all I know is I'm more worried about the safety my friends who are perceived as trans people anywhere and everywhere they go than the rights of people who are seen as cis men 98% of their time to talk like assholes.

Another Obama admin thing that came down the pike a little while back, using Title IX to protect the rights of trans students:

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/transgender-students-protected-under-title-ix

To be fair, I've never felt comfortable in gay bars. Plus I'm still smarting from an incident last weekend where I was with a group of about 12 queer people of color, and we were effectively all kicked out of a gay bar after a white drag performer did an act based on offensive caricatures of black women and a couple members of our group tried to confront them about it.

ugh one of my gay friends (white) is rly into this online drag dude who str8 up in blackface and ive confronted him about this and he's basically like "oh its ok he's gay" smh

every time a young white cis gay man complains about feeling alienated from the gay community b/c they're not effeminate or w/e

something should happen. maybe just we all take a shot

It's just really frustrating and annoying how, whenever there is a dialogue within a community about whether it's possible / desirable / whatever to reclaim slurs (which is an interesting and laudable debate to have) it invariably means that a bunch of people outside that community will *use* that debate as a justification or excuse as to why it's ~perfectly OK~ for them to go on using that slur. (Let's not play games about what prompted the revive of this thread here.)

I dunno; my thought is almost always... if a group of marginalised people have got together and said "hey, this usage is offensive, please could you think about your language" my response is not to stop using the term because "OMG people might get ~offended~" but because of what continuing to use that term would say about *me*. It's like announcing in 24 point bold comic sans "I am an insensitive douchebag who thinks my right to LOLs is more important than other people's right to feel safe in their own skin". If that's the message you wanna give out, then go ahead, but be aware you're sending it. And it's never about the *word*, it's about the knot of beliefs and prejudices that power the word. Both of the tools used (both 1. asking people to think about their language before throwing slurs around and 2. people of the in-group using that term in reclamation) are addressed at the concept-knot, rather than the word. Saying "oh, other people use it, so it's *fine* for me to go on using it wherever, whenever" is a blank refusal to even look at their own concept-knot. Which is a double dick move, as far as I'm concerned.

The distinction between Drag and Trans is one of those thorny, knotted areas. They are two things that are not necessarily coming from the same place, and one group does not get to speak for the other group. I agree with Rev, that in terms of intersectionality, cis men who perform in drag occasionally are way up the fucking privilege hill from trans people who live their lives in danger 100% of the time, so they can STFU and find another word.

There's a long history of feminists Problematising Drag, and debating it. (This has contributed to the tension between Rad-Fems and trans people, due to a conflation of the problems of Drag with trans people.) It is not a settled question, by any means. Is Drag good, because it is queering gender, and smearing boundaries, and attacking heteronormative ideas of what it means to be female or male? Is Drag bad because it reinforces and perpetuates grotesque stereotypes of "femininity"? (Then again, can even "grotesque stereotypes", when used in a clever way, help to dismantle the gender binary? Maybe.) There have been some feminists who have argued that Drag in itself is the ~gender equivalent of Blackface~, and is therefore inherently offensive, even before bringing *actual* Blackface into it. (I don't agree, but I think they do raise interesting points that are worth addressing. "Problematising" does mean discussing the problems with, and whether they can be outweighed or resolved, *not* just outright "Condemning".)

But, still, Drag is not the same thing as being Trans at all, and when ~dudes who do drag~ try to speak for or indeed over Trans Women, I really think they need to take a seat.

'dick move' is a highly offensive sexist term btw

BTW, I mean, I don't necessarily agree that "drag is (necessarily) the gender equivalent of blackface". Actual blackface remains gross and offensive. Because this is ILX, I do feel I have to clarify that.

I saw a very insightful post somewhere else on the internet talking about how a lot of these debates break down to the intractable differences between "gay culture" incubated in gay bars and "queer culture" incubated in feminist spaces.

My blanket assumption in these cases (and certainly in this one in particular) is that gay male culture is always wrong.

― pugger pugger (benson) (The Reverend), Sunday, June 1, 2014 12:06 AM (8 hours ago)

If this is a post you can link to, as opposed to something that happened in passing on ILX, I would very much appreciate it if you could find it. Because this is basically the history of ~my problems and conflicts over sexuality and gender since the age of 15~ in a fucking nutshell. If I'd encountered "queer culture" as incubated in Feminist Spaces at the age of 15, instead of "gay culture" as incubated in gay bars, my life might have taken a very different shape. But I'm not even sure it had been invented at that point in the 80s.

I dunno; my thought is almost always... if a group of marginalised people have got together and said "hey, this usage is offensive, please could you think about your language" my response is not to stop using the term because "OMG people might get ~offended~" but because of what continuing to use that term would say about *me*. It's like announcing in 24 point bold comic sans "I am an insensitive douchebag who thinks my right to LOLs is more important than other people's right to feel safe in their own skin". If that's the message you wanna give out, then go ahead, but be aware you're sending it. And it's never about the *word*, it's about the knot of beliefs and prejudices that power the word. Both of the tools used (both 1. asking people to think about their language before throwing slurs around and 2. people of the in-group using that term in reclamation) are addressed at the concept-knot, rather than the word. Saying "oh, other people use it, so it's *fine* for me to go on using it wherever, whenever" is a blank refusal to even look at their own concept-knot. Which is a double dick move, as far as I'm concerned.

― Branwell with an N, Sunday, June 1, 2014 1:39 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This all otm, and honestly I've never cared for drag at all for a lot of reasons including the ones you decribe.

Subpost: Y'know, every time I pick up yet another yappy-headed little dude intent on chasing me creepily from thread to thread, hollering his little hate-crush at me, I realise that I am more and more fiiiiiine with it, if my language happens to represent me to them as a ~Misandrist~.

Rev, I have mixed feelings about Drag. It totally can be used in really interesting and thought-provoking and even just ~fun~ ways. I have learned a lot about gender and gender performance and the theatricality thereof, from Drag Queens. But it can also be just a repository for every lazy, bad stereotype about ~Femininity~. It's the cleverness of the performer, and the sensitivity of the audience that makes the difference. There's positive and negative renderings of Drag, there's positive and negative readings of Drag. It's complicated! But I think the conversation Drag raises is still one worth having.

Yeah, I feel that. It's just never appealed to me.

If this is a post you can link to, as opposed to something that happened in passing on ILX, I would very much appreciate it if you could find it. Because this is basically the history of ~my problems and conflicts over sexuality and gender since the age of 15~ in a fucking nutshell. If I'd encountered "queer culture" as incubated in Feminist Spaces at the age of 15, instead of "gay culture" as incubated in gay bars, my life might have taken a very different shape. But I'm not even sure it had been invented at that point in the 80s.

― Branwell with an N, Sunday, June 1, 2014 2:04 AM Bookmark

The reclamation of 'queer' didn't even start until 1990 or so although that doesn't necessarily mean the seeds of queer culture didn't already exist. It was an ACT-UP splinter group that was a big catalyst for that happening.

Oh god the comment was in *shudders* a comment section at The Stranger (prob in response to Dan Savage... hey, have I mentioned Dan Savage can go fuck himself? Dan Savage can go fuck himself... being a dick about this) lemme try to find it.

From here: http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2014/05/28/justin-bond-on-rupaul-trannyshack-and-the-word-police

There's such a strange dichotomy between gay culture and queer culture. We don't talk to each other, share identities, occupy the same spaces, or even use the same vocabulary. Or when we do, like the word "queer", it means entirely different things. I've been completely baffled when I use the word "queer" and someone takes it to mean gay men. I don't know any queers who identify in any way as "tranny", "transsexual", or "drag king/queen", for example, and don't really understand those that do. We don't have the same cultural history -- gay male bar culture vs. feminist space culture.

We should absolutely understand and accept each other. But one of the groups obviously has more political and cultural power than the other -- you probably see entire TV series about gay culture more often than a single person who's part of queer culture in mainstream media. It's the responsibility of the group with more power to listen to and not hurt people in the less powerful group, if they don't want to be called out on it and lose cultural legitimacy.

Well I don't bother arguing/debating with you because you seem to be incapable to taking on any other view..

But you do exactly what you accused LJ of doing..."How can you possibly thinking I'm sexist, when I use sexist language like 'sausage party' and 'dick move'...and then carry on doing exactly that...

Terms like that are actually offensive to me..and I'd personally you rather didn't use them tbh

if a group of marginalised people have got together and said "hey, this usage is offensive, please could you think about your language" my response is not to stop using the term because "OMG people might get ~offended~" but because of what continuing to use that term would say about *me*.

I think an important aspect of this, in terms of the reactions and responses of people like Justin Bond and Annie Sprinkle, is that previously, for decades, they viewed themselves and trans people as part of the same marginalized community. Trannyshack has been around for almost 20 years, and people are now saying that the usage is offensive. And yes, language changes, and marginalized people have every right to think and re-think the language they want applied to them. However, there are plenty of people who are conservative about language, or just get set in their ways, whether it's appropriate terms for oppressed peoples or the oxford comma.

The day that you go and read a 101 and get it through your head what Sexism actually *is*, and what the word means with regards to societal power, is the day that I will engage you in conversation. Now go away with your little creepy crush and attempts to get me to pay attention to you and your derailments; grown-ups are talking.

Rev, I try to avoid Dan Savage for many many reasons, but I think that is a really good point, and one I'm going to try to look into further.

Well I don't bother arguing/debating with you because you seem to be incapable to taking on any other view..

But you do exactly what you accused LJ of doing..."How can you possibly thinking I'm sexist, when I use sexist language like 'sausage party' and 'dick move'...and then carry on doing exactly that...

Terms like that are actually offensive to me..and I'd personally you rather didn't use them tbh

― Sausage Party (Bob Six), Sunday, June 1, 2014 3:24 AM Bookmark

lololol "MISANDRY!" sit the fuck down dudebrah

It's not Savage who said that! Someone else in response to him.

I think an important aspect of this, in terms of the reactions and responses of people like Justin Bond and Annie Sprinkle, is that previously, for decades, they viewed themselves and trans people as part of the same marginalized community. Trannyshack has been around for almost 20 years, and people are now saying that the usage is offensive. And yes, language changes, and marginalized people have every right to think and re-think the language they want applied to them. However, there are plenty of people who are conservative about language, or just get set in their ways, whether it's appropriate terms for oppressed peoples or the oxford comma.

― sarahell, Sunday, June 1, 2014 3:24 AM Bookmark

Yeah, ime there's a ton of disconnect between different generations of LGBTQ people. A fair amount of older people under that umbrella abhor the word "queer" to this day but define themselves in terms the younger generation find passe or offensive. I just had a work meeting the other day (my day job is working with LGBTQ youth) where we discussed the possibility of abandoning the use of umbrella acronyms altogether because the teenagers we're trying to reach just simply aren't responding to that type of language.

yeah while queer is tossed or hurled around with great currency and intended positivity some people find it v offensive

Well I don't bother arguing/debating with you because you seem to be incapable to taking on any other view..

But you do exactly what you accused LJ of doing..."How can you possibly thinking I'm sexist, when I use sexist language like 'sausage party' and 'dick move'...and then carry on doing exactly that...

Terms like that are actually offensive to me..and I'd personally you rather didn't use them tbh

― Sausage Party (Bob Six), Sunday, June 1, 2014 3:24 AM Bookmark

lololol "MISANDRY!" sit the fuck down dudebrah

― pugger pugger (benson) (The Reverend), Sunday, June 1, 2014 5:37 AM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

looking for favorite button

rlv.zcache.com/chocolate_smiley_face_i_really_love_chocolate_button-rf2af6cd3bdaf45129626fdbe9fbcd20c_x7j3i_8byvr_512.jpg

http://s17.postimg.org/65vb30c5r/chocolate_smiley_face_i_really_love_chocolate_bu.jpg

It's not Savage who said that! Someone else in response to him.

― pugger pugger (benson) (The Reverend), Sunday, June 1, 2014 10:37 AM (4 hours ago)

Yeah, I know. But reading (albeit sound) comments threads about Savage generally requires paying attention to Savage, which is something i try to avoid.

Terms like that are actually offensive to me..and I'd personally you rather didn't use them tbh

― Sausage Party (Bob Six), Sunday, June 1, 2014 6:24 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lol dude shut the fuck up

*Awed by the adult conversation*

Will watch and learn

it's always a good look to disrupt a thread with petty and infantile 'misandry' whines and then sit back with a patronizing Alfred E. Neuman grin on your face when you get called on it.

it is, quite possibly, a 'dick move' in fact

:D

Burning ears. Anyway, I've long accepted that petulantly attacking BB with the r-word in response to a not-unreasonable check-yr-ableism was a profound dick move, and regret it enough to ensure I never do such a classless thing again. Bob, you have no business picking fights on this of all threads, and neither do I, even if I look dashedly good in drag if I may say so myself (cis drag 'tourism' versus trans identity tho etc)

sistren and brethren, please