Marvel Comics blabbery

mmm pretty seemed fun

I really like East of West. It's one of the few comics I'm reading month to month anymore.

lol 1985

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Br9h7WFCcAEo1fl.jpg

poor Groo :(

Groo back issues are hard to come by!

I dunno if I have any anymore but that was a great book.

sales must have turned around at some point cuz it had a pretty long run (120 issues?!). I have fond memories of the storylines with his dog, who was even stupider than he was.

yo man, Hama GI Joe was dope can't argue with that
i remember picking up Groo into the late 80s, it went forever

these numbers are from may 85... groo's first marvel issue was march that year.

ah that explains it

and yeah, groo was excellent.

Looks as if Groo was the second-highest selling Epic title after the flagship anthology. That's not too shabby, really.

It's hard to imagine Marvel making so much of their bread off of adaptated properties nowadays. Everybody but them seems to have cornered that particular market of late.

Was the New Universe the first time Marvel attempted the alternate, self-contained universe of titles gambit...? Was there any precedent of a similar approach from DC? (DC was pretty explicit about the separate universes, but they didn't have entire titles devoted to alternate universes, did they? At least not until Vertigo?)

I think Marvel (copying 2000 AD and other sort of indie lines) was ahead of DC with Epic and OGNS and whatnot

Kirby's Fourth World?

that included Superman/Jimmy Olsen

Epic and OGNS titles weren't related to each other tho. What I mean is something like Ultimates or New Universe, where there was a series of titles that were related to one another, but totally separate from the "regular" continuity.

like, DC didn't have a bunch of Earth-2 titles (right?)

There was All-Star Squadron and that's about it for Earth-2 ongoings.

It was the first line produced by Marvel Comics utilizing a pre-conceived shared universe concept.

I have a whole short box of nothing but groo. Can't even get at it rn (lol nyc) but I'm gonna wallow in them again someday.

yeah, groo was awesome

i loved groo as a kid. a bit sad that the collections available on amazon are a tad pricey.

Those figures are for postal subscriptions only, rather than newstand or comic book store sales

Collections were only ever four issues too iirc, they could have gotten the whole series out if Evanier had switched to fat 12-issue tomes

sales must have turned around at some point

subscription figures aren't necessarily exactly proportionate with newstand and direct sales anyway

i remember picking up Groo into the late 80s, it went forever

it's still going, the last series was in 2010 (and there's a Groo Vs Conan that was due in 2011, but Sergio's illness knocked it off track [and Sakai's family troubles probably aren't helping him speed through it rn])

Looks as if Groo was the second-highest selling Epic title after the flagship anthology. That's not too shabby, really.

can't possibly believe the Heavy Metal knockoff magazine sold more than Elektra

Was the New Universe the first time Marvel attempted the alternate, self-contained universe of titles gambit...? Was there any precedent of a similar approach from DC? (DC was pretty explicit about the separate universes, but they didn't have entire titles devoted to alternate universes, did they? At least not until Vertigo?)

Vertigo wasn't an alternate universe, it was a bunch of DCU and otherwise self-contained books

Essential-style, phonebook Groo volumes wld be a winner, no?

Think Conan v Groo is finally coming out this year.

There was All-Star Squadron and that's about it for Earth-2 ongoings.

Before that there was an All Star Comics, also featuring the Earth-2 heroes, but since 'Flash of Two Worlds' DC have never exactly resisted crossovers between the two universes.

Groo was the first American-style comic I read after a childhood of Tintin and Asterix and The Beano. Anecdotally - it felt like Mad and Groo were much more widely read than the superhero books - maybe a UK thing? There were copies in every newsagent - plus (anecdotally again) it was never just boys who read them.

Groo was always tough to find in my area (NY), never seemed that popular around here. Probably because of the times (late 80s/early 90s). I was often surprised when I was able to find a copy

I think I got into Mad magazine as a kid before most comics but never saw Groo on a newsstand and hardly ever in a comics shop.

Groo was dead easy to find in the UK, but I always suspected we mainly got the leftover comics that hadn't sold in the US

Nah. For quite a while, Marvel US would swap a 15 cent (or whatever) front cover price plate for a 10p cover price place at the end of a run of 'colour' comics, so the Marvel titles in newsagents etc were produced specifically for the UK market, although certain titles (eg The Avengers) that had British Marvel equivalents were 'non-distributed' (ie you could only get them as imports.)

http://www.comics.org/issue/1057795/cover/4/

By the time that the cover price included both a US and UK price, comics were distributed to UK specialist shops just a couple of days after they went on sale in America, so not 'leftovers' either.

paper is heavy, I would imagine shipping comics overseas was at the bottom of their list of strategies

really? woah, I always imagined when I was reading Marvel obsessively (86-88) that they were imports... thanks for clearing that up, Ward.

As a kid, I was always fascinated with Marvel comics from the UK whenever some neighborhood kids got their hands on one (usually Action Force, IIRC). Those larger comics with the different paper stock felt like alien artifacts. Even later, non-tabloid stuff like Knights of Pendragon looked so much different from what I was used to (which was largely due to what I think might've been a completely different color process than what was standard in most US Marvel books at the time).

I have mixed feelings on Kieron Gillen's recent Iron Man run, but using a couple Marvel UK characters (Death's Head and Dark Angel) was kind of entertaining

Stevie, I hope you won't mind if I make things a little clearer, still

The small, colour Marvel comics were always technically 'imports', in that they were printed and published in America. When Marvel comics were first imported to the UK, they would have a cents price on them and over that t UK price stamp, normally bearing a T&P insignia, which stood for the British distributors Thorpe and Porter Lrd. The comics were brought over to this country by sea mail.

At some point in the early 1970s, Marvel in America began to print a certain amount of their color comics with a UK pence price, rather than a cents price. This was done at the end of the printing process, a simple matter of swapping a printing plate, but it meant that UK pence copies traditionally have had shittier printing, more colour mis-alignment etc, which may have contributed to your impression that these comics were somehow 'leftovers'. They are generally deemed less collectible than the 'real' cents comics. But they were American Marvels, printed and published in the US and imported here.

Not every American Marvel title was officially distributed in the UK (these comics are known in British collector circles as 'ND' - not distributed - comics.) When the British Marvel titles kicked off in the 1970s, reprinting the American comics in larger size, black and white (or two colour) weekly editions, lots of the series featured in these UK Marvel titles - Spider-Man, Hulk, Avengers etc - were removed from UK distribution, so as not to distract from the UK sales, or confuse readers with stories from vastly different time periods. The only way for a UK reader to acquire these ND comics would be to subscribe, visit America, order them via a mail order dealer either at home or in America, or buy them from one a dedicated comic book store, like Dark They Were and Golden Eyed in London. Distribution of the Marvel Comics with British prices was always extremely patchy, but there's no evidence that any particular titles were 'dumped' on the UK market.

Again, at some point in the 1980s, Marvel began to print only one version of their American colour comics, with both an American and British (and Canadian) price on the front. These titles would be imported in large quantities by air to UK comic shops, typically going on sale just a couple of days after they went on sale in America. Or you could wait a month or so and buy pretty much every Marvel or DC as a slightly cheaper (cover) price, sea-freighted and officially distributed to newsagents and even comic shops.

Looking at a gallery of Groo covers, it seems that the first one with a joint US/UK price was issue 16, cover dated June 1986:

http://www.coverbrowser.com/image/groo-the-wanderer/16-1.jpg

Thanks for that, Ward. I could read ultra-granular comics minutia like that all day long.

Seconded. And I'm pretty sure I had that Groo!

Really interesting! I just finished the Sean Howe so am definitely in minutia mode. Follow-up question: when did DC/Marvel stuff start disappearing from UK newsagents? I stopped buying (for the first time) round Death of Superman time - I think they were still on the shelves then.

Just noticed by a friend on Twitter and reposted to Facebook:

"Disney owns marvel.
Marvel owns Thor.
Thor is the son of a king.
Thor is now female.
Thor is now a Disney princess."

it goes all the way to the top mannnnnnnn

Good idea I guess then

Marvel Unlimited is doing a month for $0.99 during Comic-Con, I'll get in on this
http://marvel.com/mu

No ALL-NEW DOOP available, what a waste.

If only for the sake of people that might read the title and have no context for it whatsoever, I love that there's a comic called All-New Doop.

I'll probably eventually get on the Marvel Unlimited train, but not until it gets a helluva lot closer to actually being Unlimited. For the time being, I'm content to stupidly spend all of my money in the futile attempt of getting physical copies of everything I want.

reminds me, I need to catch up on All-New Doop, I'm a bit behind

Read some older Dark Wolverine issues. Man, it's infuriating - so many crossovers, every issue continues directly into another series, and there's no way to just go to the correct book without hunting it down. Netflix this ain't.

I haven't used the service at all, but if Marvel's oft-nonsensical methodology with respect to physical collections is any kind of a barometer, I can only imagine that reading the more recent hyperinterconnected stuff is a total nightmare.

How is the new Nightcrawler run from Chris Claremont?

I would love to give him the benefit of the doubt given that he is 90% of the reason why I read comic books today but, after the 90s, I'll be damned if I'm ever reading another new Claremont book.

The new Nightcrawler is readable. It's not good by any means, but compared to DC, readable counts as a win.

Veitch wasn’t great, but he was waaaay better than what came afterwards. The idea of Nancy Collins ST sounds good, but nope. The idea of teenage ST daughter sounds good, but nooooope.

Yes, both of those runs were terrible. Not-so-secretly love the Wheeler run, though.

Veitch run is great, Millar run frequently approaches competency.

about the Hickman bit?

he did the x-men thing for a couple years. exiting seemed planned, he was just setting up a much different status quo

the ultimate thingy seems less like a secret wars continuation than a backdoor way to return to his ultimate universe master plan imo


in other Marvel news, is that spider-man plot cycle they’re going through right now as bad as it seems? barely checked it out but it seems like “well, we have to explain the crazy shit that started the flash-forward in time status quo and just made up something”

the internet theory is that they intended to kill off MJ and chickened out at the last minute leading to some weird, but pro-corporate synergy choices.

The Spencer run had some similar meddling, seemed like they were finally about to undo the One More Day thing and then... nothing, run ended. Also had a crazy super retcon finale arc that was very strange. Followed by an odd stop-gap year with Ben Reilly returning temporarily ("Beyond")

I'm ride or die for the Millar Swamp Thing, which is not challenging Moore for the best Swamp Thing, but is definitely the best Millar.

Yeah the last Spider-Man run is not good. It’s like Spider-Man is Marvel’s Superman, they’re always breaking the status quo for no particular reason, perpetually whiffing it

I still haven’t read Moore’s run. I really should…

Oh man, it's the best.

I was not very pleased w/the last Spider-Woman series (though I bought all the trades), but I am pleased to see a new one (with different creative team) is coming: https://www.fandompost.com/2023/08/08/marvel-comics-sets-new-spider-woman-solo-series/

Jess is my favorite character, fwiw

Can anyone recommend a good 1980s Spider-Man run for a boring January evening? I know (and enjoy) the early 90s DeMatteis run — is there anything else like that?

I’m mildly intrigued by this

https://leagueofcomicgeeks.com/comic/4373093/avengers-twilight-1

But is the Dream?

Chip-written alternate reality? I'll give it a shot at some point

Disappointed at the lack of shiny vampires.

Zdarsky's career is so weirdly split between fun stuff and glum journeyman product. I like his Batman run right now, it's very silly but very readable. The first issue of Twilight was fine, but everyone's read a billion of these things by now and this one isn't anything special.

(FWIW the Cliff Chiang Catwoman miniseries from last year was a actually pretty fun, original take on "what if superheroes but dystopia and they're old so their back hurts")

since I enjoy reading random stuff on Marvel Unlimited, I started reading through the original Alpha Flight series from 1983. John Byrne might be a notorious shithead, but he could at least do a little X-Men style Canadian spinoff that had some interesting, if very dated by 2024 standards, moments

I guess it was subtle for the time since people weren’t looking for obvious tells, but any summary (see Wikipedia) that tries to say it took a while for the series to hint about Northstar’s sexuality is… wrong

I’ve been cracking up because every time he shows up there’s some obvious “hey did you know this guy is gay? he’s gay!” setup

I've always found Byrne to be vastly overrated. Most of his art is just so static, and there is a bland sameness that he brings to everything. I consider him the anti-Kirby.

I did enjoy the Doomsday +1 book he did for Charlton very early in his career.

yeah, I wouldn't say he's good per se compared to my favorites, but I think he's generally cohesive/consistent

with the whole Marvel Unlimited deal I've tackled a pretty broad swath of comics and tapped out more than a few times. so, I'm putting that caveat on my comments

When I was a kid in the 80s, I found Marvel Comics annoying because they had too many captions compared to DC.

That is probably... not true, but it's how it seemed at the time.

Anyway - I was reminded as I'm rereading Byrne's Superman run, for the first time since the UK reprints came out in the early 90s. They seem way more zippy and readable than his Marvel comics (although possibly more hacky - and his Superman is a real prude!)

I think the Marvel Method often leads to overwriting - scripters trying to fill every available space on the finished artwork. Claremont never could resist a lengthy thought balloon or two. Once Byrne wrote full scripts for himself, he could let more of the artwork do the talking.

I do think it's a shame that the thought balloon has pretty much vanished from modern comics storytelling, tho - it's one of comics most distinctive literary devices!

Claremont never could resist a lengthy thought balloon or two.

Orzechowski's lettering is so nice, it's probably hard to resist...

Claremont having a little catchphrase to describe the powers of each individual character, and the fact it was deployed about once per issue, makes you start to go a little insane after a while. I guess that in theory this would make it easier to start reading a comic at any point during the run, but it also makes a certain portion of each issue this background framework

Steve Gerber could go on at length like nobody's business.

I mean, all these Marvel writers are taking their cues from Stan the Man, who overwrote like crazy as a way of asserting himself on the product (and lol at the 'story' credit on this one):

https://www.comicsbookcase.com/features-archive/daredevil-comic-1966

https://i.imgur.com/LOYDFzn.jpg

How will you know that some real shit is going down if Betsy isn’t talking about the focused totality of her psychic powers?

LOL at Foggy already scheming about Karen.

xp lmao

Stan did have a flair for titles.

I may be alone in this but I think Claremont and Ann Nocenti are two of the better over-writers in comics. They can be purple and weird but they're very readable. Gerber, on the other hand...

Meanwhile I'm also rereading Milligan's Shade and some of those Vertigo titles are just as bad as Marvel.

... how would you be alone in liking Claremont in Nocenti, they're fairly beloved

I mean, it's a cliche that they're both a bit prolix. But I don't really see that - I think they're some of comics better sentence writers, i.e. wordy but easy to read. So often, reading comics feels like wading through sludge, and I don't get that with them.

I think it's relative. Compared to Alan Moore or some later writers, maybe they read as corny. But compared to the writing in most of the mainstream comics at the time they were on another level. Definitely soapy and wordy, but they helped bring more nuanced emotions into superhero books.

Well Nocenti is really a post-Claremont writer - she’s at the very tail end of the ‘overwriting’ era, a Shooter writer (whereas Claremont is very much a Roy Thomas writer).

Steve Gerber a million times better than either of them, of course.