HILL STREET BLUES

rapidly aging TV drama, 365 days every year. :p

who's dead besides Kiel Martin, Rene Enriquez, Robert Prosky and Michael Conrad?

i can't think of another show w/ tv where you can point more clearly to before and after, real year zero stuff

Twin Peaks

but I was too young for this and never watched it. also I hate cop shows so

I don't think I ever watched a cop show before this one cept for Barney Miller, and none after cept the first year of NYPDB.

i still think of Jeffrey Tambor primarily as the crossdressing judge

tambor will always be hank kingsley to me

and twin peaks had an impact but nothing comparable to hill st blues. i mean the sopranos changed tv more than twin peaks.

Sopranos wouldn't have happened without Twin Peaks, is the thing.

but before Twin Peaks there's basically nothing similar.

sopranos happens because of oz which happens because of homicide which happens because of hill st blues. twin peaks has x-files and you can point at stuff where it's impact is still felt (true detective) but it's radius is pretty short. er is still on the air and isn't any different if twin peaks happens or not. st elsewhere doesn't happen period w/o hill st blues.

I've never heard David Chase extol the virtues of Oz, Homicide or HSB or cite them as a direct influence, nor am I aware of him drawing on the personnel that made those shows to make Sopranos. You may be sort of right from a network perspective (ie what they thought would make money) but aesthetically "Sopranos is Twin Peaks set in New Jersey", and the whole thing of having long-form, multi-season story arcs that track across a community of characters and are equal parts horror/comedy/existential meditations gtfo with any cop show predating TP on those counts

That NY Times oral history touches on that the show was developed by NBC's comedy wing as an "hour-long Barney Miller." Someone in the article also says it ended up being the funniest show on television, which immediately made me think of The Sopranos as well.

Mamet wrote an episode late in the series called "Wasted Weekend" that's as good as anything he's written.

chase has literally said oz is what made him think he could do the sopranos on tv (or 'not tv'). also if this - the whole thing of having long-form, multi-season story arcs that track across a community of characters and are equal parts horror/comedy/existential meditations - is yr big 'innovation' for twin peaks ALOT of shows did it prior (w/ hill st blues being the first non-soap, 'serious, quality' tv drama.

lol at twin peaks 'multi-season' arc, show was on barely more than a year and first season only had 8 episodes.

guys, "nobody" watched Twin Peaks once the murder was solved

HSB was equally influenced, as described by stuff like "The Police Tapes" and Altman, bringing that aesthetic to "cop soaps" like "Naked City," rebelling against the slick hero cops of the '70s like Kojak/Baretta/Mannix.

TV before 1980 just sucked so hard, huh guys

almost started this thread the other day. watching this show with my parents as a kid was a formative experience - just the possibility that any character could possibly die at any point was so shocking to me. Loved it to death, along with its hospital analogue, st elsewhere. they have much of both series for free streaming in the UK, and the shows still stand up.

hill st is so grimy, too, set in some fantasy city that seems to combine the worst of nyc, la and chicago.

(as described in the NYT piece) xp

yeah whatever the season splitting was weird in TP was weird let's not act like it had a regular broadcast schedule

and it's not just the formal structure, it's also the aesthetic - the design, the artsy dream sequences, the callbacks to previous episodes. Feel like TP elevated and exploited this stuff more than its predecessors, it feels and looks like a definite turning point to me.

xp

TV before 1980 just sucked so hard, huh guys

well there was the Twilight Zone. and Dennis Potter. and the Prisoner. I've heard the Tonight Show was funny once.

such a great great show and i can't think of another show w/ tv where you can point more clearly to before and after, real year zero stuff. it's been surpassed and alot of it has ended up turning into cliche in the years since (thx to, among many others, dick wolf, whose l&o was basically a pre-hill street cop show refashioned to a post-hill street landscape) but i don't think the gap between hill st blues and the sopranos/the wire/deadwood/etc is as big as one might think, esp considering this show is over thirty years old and tv drama ages faster than tv comedy. off the top of my head i'd have it seventh, behind homicide, ahead of the shield. also, w/ cheers, the classic example of a show getting horrible ratings the first season, getting acclaim/emmys, and then becoming a huge smash the rest of its run. plus that theme.

― balls, Tuesday, May 6, 2014

so otm. at least with television, it's really hard to compare shows outside of their era, at least in certain categories. it's hard to overstate the impact of hill street blues on tv dramas in the late 70s. there was a grit and intensity to it that i can't remember in earlier shows (which tended to show police as steely-eyed, square-jawed tough guys fighting against the forces of evil). i'd say hill street blues opened the door for nypd blue, which was, early in its run, as gritty, or even tougher-minded, than hill street blues was, and courageously featured a central character that was as flawed as any up to that point in time. anyway, a totally classic show. glad there's a thread about it.

sorry; maybe it was early 80s. at my advanced age, the mind tends to wander.

yeah its run almost overlapped exactly with the Reagan Administration (or at least RR was politically expired by '87).

It was also the first cop series, I think, in which the chief was transparently the worst person on earth and there was no getting rid of him. (unless they did in the last season, i don't remember)

i always loved the quiet scenes between furillo and his lawyer lady at the end of the show. they were often taking a bath together, right? that was pretty unheard of back then, for tv.

yeah they kind of slight columbo as an example of corny pre-hill st drama and it made me wince. i did like how the hill st guys kinda dismissed their innovating multi-episode arcs as just ripping off dallas. looking at recent tv ratings also it's funny that most of the actually successful shows generally are updates of pre-hill st dramas, be it a present day take on a nbc mystery movie show or a slightly smarter take on a mark vii limited show. the biggest one is literally a donald bellisario show. considering how many buzz shows now live on 'omg what just happened/omg what will happen next' energy there's an argument to be made that dallas is the most important early 80s tv drama in terms of 2014, esp if you suspect (as i do) that the 'golden age' of tv is just about over. twin peaks falls into that dallas event spoiler fodder tv, but it was (obv) markedly better. there's also a level of obsession sparking that starts w/ twin peaks, i could see an argument for it being the first internet drama w/ x-files cementing this mode of nerdiness and lost as its zenith/nadir. this is it's biggest influence though not it's most positive. in terms of quality adult narrative drama tv might be (or might've been recently rather) better than american film but in terms of style and design movies have had a considerable leg up. most of the few attempts by tv to bridge this gap have come from shows w/ heavy debts to twin peaks (true detective, hannibal) but again in the nearly quarter century since twin peaks you count all the examples of show that have attempted to rise to that challenge on one hand. so when i say twin peaks influence is limited it's not an indictment of the show, it's an indictment of tv. regarding older tv dramas it's curious that the ones that hold up are the ones that fit most into pre-tv genre fiction boxes, sci-fi (twlight zone, star trek) and detective (columbo, rockford files).

i have yet to make it in with this yet just because of its oldness. old tv just seem so slowwwwwwww. a year or two ago i tried to re-watch some e.r. just to compare my impression of hospital-workplace dramas to crime-workplace dramas and i didn't have the patience to stick with it (and i will watch the shit out of ten years worth of tv show if i can tolerate leaving it running). and that was mid-90s.

(it's not that i think it's irredeemable—i just need to get used to the rhythm and pace.)

i think it must have something to do with the pace of incidents. watching lou grant even the hostage-taking episode seems kind of leisurely, space for chatter between co-workers, little double takes when out from lunch, etc. material included more for amusement or anecdotal value, where later-era tv will press a lot harder on deriving gag value from those, or the ironic/realistic/horrifying equivalents. making every bit keep the momentum of the episode constant, and constant across most episodes.

Totally forgot about Lou Grant, which from memory does seem like a one-hour dramedy predecessor to HSB, scruffy jaded supporting characters and all.

Lou Grant, the Iranian cinema of late '70s TV

xp

haha!

i hate watching things that are too fast and incident-rich, unless it's farce

Lou Grant, the Iranian cinema of late '70s TV - genuine lol at this

Trinidad Silva, who played Jesus the gang leader, died in a car crash in '88.

Chief Daniels is still around, and it's funny to see he appeared on nearly all the anti-HSB precedents: The FBI, Mannix, Cannon, Police Woman etc.

Among the regular cast i guess the biggest careers were Haid and Betty Thomas, both of whom directed a ton of TV and a few features.

betty thomas has turned into a perfectly adequate comedy director. i'm not going to go so far as to call her 'underrated' (to be clear, she's a hack for sure) but she's made alot of perfectly watchable movies that really had no right to be watchable (private parts, the brady bunch movie). 28 days the best sandra bullock performance pre-gravity.

I know she has a Second City background

Ken Olin was a regular for what, a year before thirtysomething

yeah his character was the gambling addict who got killed i think

I only saw the pilot in reruns mid-series, but now i remember Hill and Renko getting blown away in the last scene.

Yeah, they rewrote/retconned that pretty swiftly iirc.

Lou Grant still feels preachy/spoon-feedy in a way Hill Street mostly avoided.

Am i right in thinking daniel j travanti's failure to transition from HSB to anything bigger was a matter of some serious bitterness on his part? I really like him as Furillo, but I seem to remember my parents thinking he was pretty wooden.

Michael Conrad was golden throughout.

His character is sort of where the de-sitcommed Barney Miller parallel comes in, he was the solid center amid the nuts and/or obstacles. I seem to remeber him relying on the even, soft-spoken-determination thing in all Furillo's "big" scenes.

chicken joke Bochco discussed as reason for this episode in NYT

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8EXTzNMOzg

The Police Tapes, as mentioned in the NYTimes piece. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gz_X4b4f0Lg

this was pretty big in the UK too, it was in a plum slot on Channel 4 on a Saturday night around 9 or 10pm for years.

what i remember from this show, faint memories, was ed marinaro's character getting shot and nearly dying at one point, and then a few seasons later he just got unexpectedly blown away in a pretty violent manner and his body was just left on the street (implicitly) for hours while they were dealing with the crime scene, and it was just so grim and final.

and i really like the unnamed city aspect of it, which i've liked in a lot of cinema and tv before (seven, miller's crossing, etc.)

i wonder what the most recent (non-shitty) cop show not to name its city was

(also non-canadian)

"Judas H. Priest, man!"

would be fine if everyone who worked for TMZ were consumed by fire
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdO3cTQgNhI

Hi I am watching Hill Street Blues for the first time and we've just finished s4.

I love it so much. I always loved the theme song even when I was a kid but it was just one of those 'grown up shows' that passed me by.
Anyway there's been some great storylines, I have a huge crush on Washington, I hated JD from the moment he appeared on screen and I'm kinda happy he's not in it much now, I love Bates especially since she made Sgt and took over roll call. I loved Esterhaus so much but words cannot describe how much I haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaated his girlfriend Grace. God she skeeved me out. I love Furrillo almost all the time except when he's an idiot w/r/t eveyr woman in his life. I felt so bad for Fay's character for the first x amount of seasons that they just boxed her in as the hysterical ex wife.

Jesus Martinez aka Trinidad Silva is a blessing, such a great screen presence!!

It's kinda surprising for a show that's as big of a sausagefest as it is that they do a pretty good job of showing how much of a heel some of these guys can be towards the women in their life. I don't like that the women's side of the story doesn't get examined too often but by the same token they're not as tossed off as you'd expect. the guys often come out looking like douchebags -- ie the storyline when Linda Hamilton plays coffey's girlfiend and she gets raped and coffey goes cold on her because he 'doesn't know how to feel about it'. Horrifying. But I was impressed that they didn't try to resolve it, or have her forgive him, she just gets to be well fuck you then idiot and they never cross paths again.

I love it so much. I always loved the theme song even when I was a kid but it was just one of those 'grown up shows' that passed me by.

alltime best, most perfectly written tv theme song

I hated JD from the moment he appeared on screen and I'm kinda happy he's not in it much now

PVMIC for me, but when I was watching the first two seasons on the old DVDs, JD always gave me Glenn Frey vibes.

LOL totally

er

i mean

well, yeah

Love the theme song so much.

I keep trying to watch this show but can't seem to get fully locked onto it somehow, although I like what I've seen. Maybe it's time to try again. I absolutely love Davenport and Furillo as a couple, though - it's so great that instead of centering around some slow-burning marriage-plot romance between two people who have to be kept apart for as long as possible, this show gives us an actual adult relationship and lets us watch it evolve.

Recently watched the first two series, I remember it as a youngster but it was a bit too grown up to make much impact beyond Renko and Belker's more demonstrative acting roles. But man, it's so great, There's what 6/7 series? Does it cool off? Everything's so grubby, dirty, ppl are mostly all angry, sweaty and unshaven all the time.

7 seasons

i just started s5 and it has kept the same pace/look/feel the entire time

s5 looks a tiny bit more polished

Where does HSB stream currently? My dad and I used to watch it religiously...

I seem to recall later seasons getting bogged down in some long-running political subplot involving the DA shouting at Furillo a lot. Or did he and the missus end up on different sides? Anyway it got a bit dull.
Spinal Tap watch: Charles Levin's 'Eddie Gregg' character (one of Mick Belker's many nemeses) also played the record store owner of the failed signing session.

i think this show got a bit overshadowed by Bochco's subsequent success w/NYPD Blue, which lasted longer and was even more successful in terms of awards season BS, but HSB is better. i watched it a decent amount as a kid, it was on when i was in elementary school. i enjoyed that it was seemingly set in a close approximation of Chicago, based on just some of the atmosphere and the police vehicles. everyone did seem a little worn down and more blue-collar and a bit more real. the violence was occasionally pretty shocking.

it still engaged in some ridiculousness, like when David Caruso was the leader of an Irish street gang. It was more The Warriors than The Wire on some occasions, really.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cth4KAXWEAAKGED.jpg

Dennis Franz's Sal Benedetto + Norman Buntz characters > NYPD Blue, sorry for challops

entire series currently streaming on Hulu

apparently Bochko leaves during or after s5

i watched first ep of s5 last night
Robert Prosky joins the cast as roll call sgt so my excitement about Blake coming into her own on roll call was shortlived :/

also their “it’s a hot one out there” summer makeup is usually pretty extra but it’s waaaay ott in this first ep - i said to clay they’re so sweaty & damp that it looks like the station moved to Indonesia over the break. All they need are linen suits & slow ceiling fans & it’s The Year of Living Dangerously

also there’s a new detective whose name i cant remember & of course furillo has already gone on a date with her. dude just shits where he eats left right & center.. he’s still tangled up w joyce even though they’re separated & i think fay is still hot for him too.
wild.

morbs otm. i dunno that it’s even challops - Sal Bendetto was an amazingly realized slimeball. that arc was so good!!

and he almost got Washington killed >:(

weird how no one noticed Benedetto and Buntz bore a resemblance to one another.

i think in the Prosky era David Mamet wrote an episode, maybe 'consulted' on more

although it was more common on sitcoms, the same guest actors usta show up playing diff characters fairly often on series

i love it, i think the Law and Orders did and still do it constantly.

yeah Edward James Olmos played a tenant in a slumlord building & then later showed up as a judge in a different season. i kinda love that

so many great guest stars in general though
Alfré Woodard had an amazing run as the mother of a kid who got shot. She got an emmy for it (her first iirc)

Oh and Jonathan Banks got a 2 parter as a homeless guy with multiple personality disorder suspected of murder. He looked SO young i didnt recognize him at first

Jonathan Banks is also one of the detectives that gets capped in the beginning of the first 48 Hrs film.

I have never heard of Jonathan Banks, so I guessed it was a Prestige TV thing

yep

it still engaged in some ridiculousness, like when David Caruso was the leader of an Irish street gang. It was more The Warriors than The Wire on some occasions, really.

lol i watched an episode last night and nearly shared a similar image. were there actual irish gangs that dressed like they fell off a box of lucky charms?

hill street was so much better than NYPD Blue it's ridiculous.

i think in the Prosky era David Mamet wrote an episode, maybe 'consulted' on more

Yep, A Wasted Weekend.”

Nutty IMDB Trivia About Veronica Hamel:

In 1972 she and her then husband became the new owners of Marilyn Monroe's Brentwood home. They hired a contractor to replace the roof and remodel the house, and the contractor discovered a sophisticated eavesdropping and telephone tapping system that covered every room in the house. The components were not commercially available in 1962, but were--in the words of a retired Justice Department official--"standard FBI issue." This discovery lent further support to claims of conspiracy theorists that Marilyn had been under surveillance by the Kennedys and the Mafia. The new owners spent $100,000 to remove the bugging devices from the house.

whoah!

Decades is showing a smattering of episodes this weekend. They're currently in the midst of a Season 3 arc about a black man getting killed in custody (by a racist biker in the next holding cell BTW), and holy shit they could have shot this yesterday.

Also LaRue has been perving on a 16 year-old played by Ally Sheedy.

yeah that was super gross

This show is streaming for free on Channel 4 in the UK. I dip in and out, having watched most of it as a kid when it first ran, and it rarely feels dated. I mean, the fashions, etc, have changed, but its hard edge remains an acme of a certain kind of TV.

They've skipped ahead to S7, and they just ran the Mamet episode, which lives up to reputation. It's so Mamet they brought back Lindsey Crouse and gave her some great scenes with Dennis Franz! Only needed a bunch of gratuitous swears and a Rickey Jay or William H. Macy cameo to achieve Full Mamet.

love franz in HSB, buntz was a great shady piece of work

Robert Prosky (with a full monologue in that Mamet episode) was the original Shelley Levene (Jack Lemmon’s role) in Glengarry on Broadway.

Oh yeah, I was just looking him up and found this started by Morbs: RIP Mamet regular / character actor Robert Prosky

prosky is a legend <3

Is that him in the second Gremlins movie, as the guy who introduces horror flicks on TV?

Yes it is!