Britpop : Time For Reevaluation?

Ah, you missed out a question mark, which does make a difference and is what I was meaning.

But, fair point.

Can you remember where the R. Young article was, Tom? I'd like to read what he had to say. A brief google failed to turn anything up. No doubt his lambasting had the zeal of the convert.

Ummmm, I think it was in a review about some book about indie music, a history of indie music or sumthin' ... it was from 2006 or thereabouts, didn't strike me as his finest moment

xpost - I think The PG:Singles Club is better, but it's definitely worth a read. Back in the day (say 97 or so), it took me about a month to realise that David Kohl, Brem X Jones, and Gillen were one and the same…

I'm not sure I understand the significance of 'like me' in this discussion...

Appreciate that Jarvis's lyric could be interpreted a number of ways. I know, also, how much of a cop-out this might sounds, but I'm often wary of over-analysing lyrical minutiae in pop songs because it's likely that a songwriter can only do so much as the song allows. Writing a song is different from writing an opinion piece or even poetry because you're constrained by factors like metre, length, rhyming scheme and what simply sounds best when rolling off the tongue or belted out in a chorus, so it's not like all songwriters deserve to have their work scrutinised every which way. All too often you have to make concessions.

*might sound

What I mean is, it's unlikely Jarvis sat down one day and said 'I want to write a song about class and sex tourism', wrote out a load of lyrics detailing his exact succinct thoughts on the subject and then wrote a tune around it. It's probably the other way round, and writing smart lyrics like this is tough enough as it is without having to consider ambiguous and implicit meanings that may or may not be construed from outside interpretation. You can do your best, but no matter what you're going to be open to having them picked apart when written down.

aiui the 'like me' question in this thread turns on whether Jarvis is saying that he is a Common Person, or whether he's effectively quoting the Greek girl back at herself with a raised eyebrow of amusement, confusion or disbelief ('You think I'm a common person? well, let me explain…'). (obvs the latter imo)

I'm often wary of over-analysing lyrical minutiae

NOT ME

I'm often wary of over-analysing lyrical minutiae
NOT ME
But she didn't understand, she just smiled and held my hand

Lyrics are designed to be sung anyhow. The way a lyric is sung can change the whole meaning of the song. I actually prefer Bill Shatner and Joe Jackson's interpretation of 'Common People' because I feel Jarvis mutters a lot of the lyrics and it wasn't until I heard the Shatters version that I even understood the all the words.

But… he doesn't have to consider the outside interpretations. He just has to write the lyrics: they may be part-defined by the tune, by the rhymes, by accident - but selecting or intuiting something that feels right or funny, that fits, he makes a thing complicated, probably beyond his conscious intentions (and that's leaving aside the band's part in it all). We sit here and argue about it; we build new meanings and relate it to our lives in fresh ways; eventually we get sacked when the network admin realises how much time we're spending reading ILM at work.

Jarvis published his lyrics in a nice Faber & Faber volume, so they must be meant to be taken somewhat seriously. Here's his brief note on Common People from that book:

http://i.imgur.com/8WoRZys.png

Always find it interesting that, although they seem to be the act most people like out of it, they were eventuallychamstrung with the Britpop label - unlike Blur and Oasis. If you plot a timeline theres no big act more synonymous with the rise and fall of Britpop.

Best Pulp album is well after Britpop imo

Yeah, but people really started to jump off the bus at that point. Help the Aged was successful but their staying power declined. Unlike Blur and Oasis, crappy Be Here Now or not

It's interesting that nowadays Britpop is firmly defined as Blur/Oasis and others. It's easy to imagine a 1990s without Oasis, which would then mean (surely?) no Shed Seven, no Cast etc., at least not under the Britpop umbrella.

The Select union jack cover, in spring 1993, long before anyone had heard of Oasis, had Suede, St Etienne, Denim, Pulp and the Auteurs on the cover. Most of these are not even particularly guitar-y, and they're barely rock. The middle three especially were definitely onto something similar - that I very much liked at the time - and it's weird that history has bracketed them with Cast and Northern Uproar.

The Britpop Now BBC programme in 1995 still didn't have any of that straightforward northern guitar rock: Blur, Elastica, The Boo Radleys, PJ Harvey, Menswe@r, Echobelly, Gene, Supergrass, Sleeper, Marion, Powder, Pulp. Quite a bit of shit, right enough, but PJ Harvey!

OK so on a micro level britpop ws nearly something soecial/inclusive? Shit. St Et ws my fav band in those days, one of them now

I'd argue that it's impossible to imagine the (mid-to-late) '90s without Oasis.

http://www.literatura.hu/irok/szimbol/images/Stefan-George.jpg

I always felt like "Common People" was a pretty direct critique on how art students/rock kids/etc. worship the working class and do so in a patronizing way that embraces and justifies their own nihilism. Basically dressing up self-indulgent 20s hedonism as something profound and authentic because the lower classes do this. Nobody in the club drinking/dancing/screwing is really lower class, it's just full of these entitled elitists judging each other.

The best part of 'Common People' for me is the part they actually edited out of the single version!

Pretty sure theres an entire thread devoted to analysing the lyrics of "Common People" in excruciating detail

why not do it in this thread that is so worthwhile buoyant and inspiring

even more so, now you've made your contribution :P

1) Oasis - Roll With It
2) Blur Country House
3) Ocean Colour Scene - Day We Caught The Train
4) Dodgy - Good Enough
5) Kula Shaker - Hey Dude
6) Cast - Live The Dream
7) Powder - Afrodisiac
8) Supernaturals- Smile
9) Catatonia - Mulder & Scully
10) Space Feat Cerys - The Ballad Of Tom Jones
11) The Divine Comedy - Something for the Weekend
12) My Life Story - 12 Reasons Why I Love Her
13) Sleeper - Inbetweener
14) Lightning Seeds - 3 Lions
15) Babybird - You’re Gorgeous.
16) Bluetones - Cut Some Rug
17) Reef - Place Your Hands.
18) Shed Seven - Dolphin.
19) Longpigs - She Said.
20) Catch - Bingo.
21) Embrace - All You Good Good People.
22) The Levellers - What A Beautiful Day
23) Jocasta - Change Me
24) Nilon Bombers - Superstar
25) Ether - Best Friend
26) Mainstream - Step Right Up
27) Midget - All Fall Down
28)18 Wheeler - Crabs
29) Robbie Williams - Angels.
30) The Verve - Lucky Man
31) Manic Street Preachers - The Everlasting
32) Suede - Head Music
33) Thurman - English Tea
34) Northern Uproar - Town
35) Menswe@r - Stardust
36)Smokin' Mojo Filters - Come Together
37) Ruth - I Don't Know
38) The Seahorses - Ypu Can Talk To Me
39) Republica - Drop \\dead Gorgeous
40) Rialto - Monday Morning 5.19
41) Travis - More Than Us
42) Stereophonics - More Life in a Tramp's Vest
43) Hurricane #1 - Only the Strongest Will Survive
44) The Charlatans - How High
45) Puressence - This Feeling
46) Feeder - Buck Rogers
47) Terrorvision - Tequila.

47 of the shittest songs of the era. One song per band max. Anything else to be added?

― ۩, Tuesday, April 29, 2014 1:22 AM (16 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I'm looking over this list again, and I think there's worse songs by some of these bands. I definitely don't think 'Lucky Man' deserves to be on this list, and I like 'Inbetweener'. Sorry!

dancing drinking & screwing are all highly enjoyable activities what the hell else would you even want to do, hooray for being poor

is my takeaway

I'm looking over this list again, and I think there's worse songs by some of these bands.

― Toni Braxton-Hicks (Turrican)

Agreed.

Blur - Top Man/ Mr Robinson's Quango
Oasis - All Around the World
Cast - Guiding Star
My Life Story - Strumpet
Divine Comedy - Shouldn't be on the list..oh ok I've Been to a Marvelous Party
Sleeper - Nice Guy Eddie
Menswe@r - We Love You
Shed Seven - Bully Boy
Kula Shaker - Crispian Reading From The Mahabharata
Feeder - High
The Bluetones - Autophilia (Or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love My Car)
The Charlatans - Tough one, did they have any terrible songs in the 90s? How High definitely isn't one.

Robbie Williams - Strong

feeder - high got added in its place remember
http://open.spotify.com/user/pfunkboy/playlist/0y0gMIOGyKaqj70K3eEprx

Mr Robinson's Quango has to be Blur's worst song, surely?

i would defend the bluetones on the whole. they get a bad rap.

you couldn't make it up

first album was decent anyway

I'd argue that it's impossible to imagine the (mid-to-late) '90s without Oasis.

wish i'd been around to get in on this

Oh, gees, All Around the World. Heard it again recently, it's just abysmal. I love the story that they had written it before DefMay, but set it aside until they could get the budget to do it properly. And then this was the best they could do...

Like, in the Hollywood-biopic, we begin with young Liam and Noel demoing that song as kids, and Noel going: 'one day, we will finish this, and this will be our legacy'. And the final scene has him sitting in the dark, post-bender, switching between the demo and the recording, crying over the loss of innocence and squandering of promise.

Except that I can't imagine All Around the World wasn't shit to begin with. Still.

as good a place as any to show this again

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfNqyjZcleI

i would defend the bluetones on the whole. they get a bad rap.

― 1 pONO 3v3Ry+h1n G!!!1 (dog latin), Tuesday, April 29, 2014 7:13 PM (51 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I honestly don't mind their first couple of albums (their second album especially), but that song that Kitchen Person mentioned ('Autophilia') really is incredibly, incredibly corny.

The Bluetones were dreadful except for "Slight Return"

Mr Robinson's Quango has to be Blur's worst song, surely?

― 1 pONO 3v3Ry+h1n G!!!1 (dog latin), Tuesday, April 29, 2014 7:12 PM (55 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Hmm. If we're talking about stuff that went onto the albums, then 'Top Man' is definitely far, far worse for me. But if we factor the B-sides into the equation, jesus...

trouble in the message centre ugh

The Bluetones were dreadful except for "Slight Return"

― everyday sheeple (Michael B), Tuesday, April 29, 2014 8:08 PM (50 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

'If...' is better than 'Slight Return', for one. As are some of the album tracks like 'Ames', 'U.T.A.', 'The Jub-Jub Bird'...

trouble in the message centre ugh

― everyday sheeple (Michael B), Tuesday, April 29, 2014 8:11 PM (42 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

God, no! That's one of my highlights of Parklife alongside 'Badhead', 'London Loves' and 'Clover Over Dover'!

Wow, Trouble in the Message Centre is my favourite Blur song.

Really? I always felt it was a bad Gary Numan rip

Bluetones songs I quite enjoy.

Slight Return
Bluetonic
Driftwood
Carnt Be Trusted
Putting Out Fires
My Neighbour's House
Emily's Pine
Zorro
Broken Starr
Last of the Great Navigators
If...
Down at the Reservoir

That's probably double the amount of songs I like by Oasis.

Really? I always felt it was a bad Gary Numan rip

― everyday sheeple (Michael B)

I've always loved the new wave feel of it. Also it's one of their songs that sounds nothing like any of their others in any way.

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/music/news/a567596/damon-albarn-country-house-and-roll-with-it-were-both-st.html

roll with it really is the worst oasis from their glory years.

If by The Bluetones is a very good song indeed

the music press did really lose the run of themselves in the latter stages of the Britpop era. heres the NME review of "the great escape".

http://www.vblurpage.com/articles/albums/escape_nme.htm

there was another review in MM ridiculously overestimating the album, calling it a classic pop record and comparing it to ABC's "The Lexicon of Love"

The Great Escape isn't a perfect album, but it's definitely not a bad one in my opinion. Just needs a couple of the lesser songs shaving off it.