also just going to go ahead and have a Captain America: The Winter Soldier thread

Now that you mention it, there was something slightly off about the way they looked. Scarjo was all washed out

Because she is an alien, iirc.

One more thing: nobody remembers Captain America's close friendship with Bucky Barnes from the first film. Literally - no one.

The close friendship that is celebrated in a major display in a national museum?

I just saw this. Obviously it's a minor pleasure at best, but I wasn't bored.

I remembered Bucky, Josh!

I could watch Robert Redford read the phone book tbh

thought this was much much better than it had to be, and def better than the first one

• Mackie steals it
• the washedoutness was good and right and appropriate to the paranoid-thriller throwback genre. see also: redford's wide tie.
• namechecks: Batroc Zee Leaper! Steven Strange!
• Brubaker cameo!
• Winter Soldier subplot completely immaterial to major arc but that plus lost-in-time hero gave it just enough emotional ballast to overcome the Dark World who gives a fuck problem

Teaser was okay, bring on the next. Love more and more that each [non-X, non-Spider] Marvel pic is an issue in the big story. It's a highwire act and they're pulling it off well enough that I'm not about to complain. Bring on Guardians for humorous interlude.

excited to see this. sf chronicle savaged it predictably, I don't think MIck Lasalle appreciates superhero films though. if this is better than the first one I'm particularly excited.

I don't think it was better than the first one -- saw it this afternoon. I have to finish up a zine but will come back later with thoughts.

oh and the epitaph on A CERTAIN PERSON'S gravestone was a little on the nose but I lol'd anyway

gonna see this in the theater, can't be more leaden than Thor 2

Does it have anything as stupid in it as Captain America staying on the plane for convenient freezing purposes even though there was a glaringly obvious out?

going by this, he seems to have a fetish for going down with the ship

Every single of the dozens of bad guys that sneak into SHIELD looks like a swarthy villain from Die Hard, and no one notices?

They worked there! There was nothing unusual about them being there!

[New hero] just happens to have a file with his secret program sitting around his apartment?

Don't recall anyone on screen ever saying "secret."

They manage to secretly build basically three Death Stars right under Washington, DC?

It was SHIELD headquarters! It was a program approved by the Secretary of Defense! (In this universe - as established by The Avengers - the USA is obviously a signatory to and member of something called the World Security Council that has UN-like powers and more.) It wasn't a secret, its purpose was obscured by the bad guy!

The secret base in New Jersey is a long elevator ride down , but they climb right out of the rubble?

"Maybe" on this one.

No idea how they're going to explain away the presence of Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch in a world without mutants without messing up fan conception of this whole thing. Going to have to start mutating the canon in major ways.

Thought it was pretty obvious they had been experimented on by Hydra just like everyone else in this version of the Marvel Universe, with some combination of Hydra technology and some derivation of the super-solider serum that also created the Red Skull, the Hulk, et al. On-screen dialogue refers to "volunteers," i.e. Test subjects.

One more thing: nobody remembers Captain America's close friendship with Bucky Barnes from the first film. Literally - no one.

Do you mean in-universe or in the audience? Because neither of those is even remotely true.

You are bad at watching movies.

Thoroughly enjoyed this, but have to admit that after seeing them shutting down streets and filming this around town last year, it was a little jarring to see how it was cut together. I fell victim a couple of times to both "hey, that geography is impossible" and "oh, hey, it's the library/this building/that street!"

(A great example of "movie geography" - The beginning and end of Nick Fury's car chase are right around the corner from each other on the same block IRL. )

(And also a car chase taking place in "Washington, DC" has a clearly visible sign for OH-6/OH-322, which is Superior Ave. in downtown Cleveland.)

The more I ponder this film, the more I like it. It's a good chunk of CMU* exposition moving towards Avengers 2, but also not bad as an espionage and political paranoia thriller. I still think Cap 1 was the better film by a slim margin.

oh and the epitaph on A CERTAIN PERSON'S gravestone was a little on the nose but I lol'd anyway
― resulting post (rogermexico.), Friday, April 4, 2014 11:41 PM (Yesterday)

I got a good cackle out that.

Mackie as Sam Wilson was really good, and they caught the mid-70s Cap-Falcon cameraderie so perfectly from the very start that I wish he was going to be in the Avengers films as well as Cap films, but I understand not wanting to put too many ingredients in the soup.

*Cinematic Marvel Universe -- Rascally Roy

going to the 10 a.m. show. Ta!

SPOILERS!

Thought this was okay, but a bit too predictable... And not just because everyone who's read recent Captain America comics knew the biggest plot twist from the movie title alone, but because every other plot turn was so easy to guess as well... Of course the Black Widow isn't gonna turn out to be a traitor (you gotta think of future Marvel movies). Of course Nick Fury's death was faked (though at least they didn't use a Life Model Decoy). Of course the Robert Redford "patriotic" politician is gonna turn out to be the Big Bad (who else could it have been?). Of course in the final battle between Cap and the Winter Soldier the latter's memory would come back and he'd spare Cap. And so on... Given that this movie tried to be more of a spy thriller than a superhero romp, I wish they'd put more effort into the script, because the premise of straight-arrow Cap taking down corrupted SHIELD had a lot of promise. Basically the only plot turn that wasn't immediately guessable was Zola living inside a vaccum tube computer, and that was one of the coolest parts of the movie.

I wasn't super impressed by the action pieces either, they were professionally done, but not particularly innovative. The only really cool part one was Nick Fury driving through Washington and running away from HYDRA, the climax with Winter Soldier appearing on the middle of the road was hella intense. The final battle, on the other hand, was merely a variation of the typical Bond movie "infiltrate the bad guy's lair and plant a bomb there" finale, so it was hard to get super excited about it. A smaller scale one-on-one fight between just Cap and Buck would've worked better, because the psychological aspect of that battle at least made it a bit more interesting than your typical action movie fireworks.

Basically what I think saved this movie from being utterly mediocre was the character work. Cap has always been a blandish character, and thus it's hard for an actor to make him interesting, but I thought Chris Evans reached a decent balance between boy scout idealism and post-War On Terror doubt. And this was the first time I found Scarlett Johansson's Black Widow to have some intrigue in her, her "atone for my dark past" character motivation actually made sense in this context. Also, I really liked that they didn't add any token romance between her and Cap, but instead she was matchmaking him with Sharon Carter (i.e. his canon love interest in the comics). And the guy playing Falcon was of course excellent, give him a movie of his own already!

Oh yeah, and I was really disappointed they didn't give Batroc ze Leaper a comedy French accent and a waxed moustache. They missed a chance there. In general I'm not fond of how Marvel movies have toned down and grittified so many classic villains (possibly following the lead of the Nolan Batman movies). Supervillains should be larger than life, not these washed-colour scowlers.

i was totally pleased with batroc. his savate style was just "french" enough for a wink in the CMU.

I dunno... If you're gonna make him a generic mook whose only connection to the original character is that he kicks a lot, why call him Batroc in the first place?

I mean, the reason the comic book Batroc is memorable is because he's so (intentionally) corny and over-the-top. Take that away, and it could be anyone.

I mean, the reason the comic book Batroc is memorable a shitty character is because he's so (intentionally) corny and over-the-top.

My favorite of the Marvel films to date: clean, a couple good crackling exchanges between ScarJo and the Cap'n, and some tension. Shrewd Toby Jones and Garry Shandling cameos. Good of Robert Redford to whore out his poached-salmon face to play a colorless bureaucrat who never raises his voice. The movie wants to have its cake and eat it too (the big bad world those awesome SHIELD toys made has to be destroyed...so that another acronym can take its place) but any movie that makes Chris Evans interesting to watch for once deserves a medal.

and yeah Batroc the Leaper! I only know his name from the Marvel board game issued in the seventies (through which I also learned MODOK).

Do you mean in-universe or in the audience? Because neither of those is even remotely true.

I mean not from the comics, from the first movie. Obv. comic nerds know almost every soapy beat of these things. I just meant as a major character from the first CA movie.

I'm not bad at watching movies, btw. I was trying to watch the movie from the perspective of someone unfamiliar with the decades-old stories, just in the context of the previous (9?) films.

I should say I really like all these movies, at least a little. But I thought this one pretty perfunctory. I think all the positive reviews are related to the Real World themes, but as a superhero movie it was pretty eh.

The first section of the first film was about Steve being 4F and his friend Bucky shipping out. The entire reason Captain America went into combat and ducked out of the USO show was because his friend was behind enemy lines captured. Did you watch the first movie?

Also, whatever review or comment I read saying the title was a misnomer because the Winter Soldier character is barely present has no idea wtf a "winter soldier" is. Hint: it's not just Bucky

in other words Bucky done gone

think I'm gonna see this today. didn't care for the first one but the trailer looked positively dope oh fuck the dog I was watching just moved out of view brb

I was trying to watch the movie from the perspective of someone unfamiliar with the decades-old stories, just in the context of the previous (9?) films.

Actually, I think there's an advantage to having very little familiarity with Marvel storylines. I have no idea who any of the non-famous characters are (Quicksilver? Scarlet Witch? Batroc? Sharon?) so when they're introduced I can just take them as they're presented to me. Which maybe makes it easier to not quibble with how they're presented? I suppose that isn't true for all Marvel-ignorant viewers.

I'm not bad at watching movies, btw. I was trying to watch the movie from the perspective of someone unfamiliar with the decades-old stories, just in the context of the previous (9?) films.

i'm unfamiliar with the decades-old stories and i didn't have a problem with this at all, i remember bucky because i remember the first movie

anyway the marvin gaye montage at the end was the best

and there was "ah! abed cameo!" but more importantly DC PIERSON CAMEO

Well, maybe it did not help that I saw the first movie three years and, what, three Marvel movies ago, and have not seen a minute of it since. I liked it, too, iirc. So no, I didn't remember Bucky playing a big role. Obviously I know the mythology from the comics - I didn't have to ask who Thanos was after the Avengers, either - but I felt the drama between Cap and Winter Soldier in this was as perfunctory as the rest of it.

Am I correct that Quicksilver at least will be appearing in next X-Men movie, as a mutant, played by a different actor?

Every single of the dozens of bad guys that sneak into SHIELD looks like a swarthy villain from Die Hard, and no one notices?

They worked there! There was nothing unusual about them being there!

Yeah, I'm sorry, no, every single one of the bad SHIELD agents just happened to be sweaty and dark and full-stubbled. I thought it was comical, actually. Though it was an easy way to tell the two sides apart!

I think first Captain America movie is still on netflix if you need more Bucky

Am I correct that Quicksilver at least will be appearing in next X-Men movie, as a mutant, played by a different actor?

― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, April 5, 2014

yes. it is what it is.

You know, at the rate they're adding characters, I'm honestly surprised the second Avengers movie is itself not a two-parter. More villains, more heroes, each with tricky backstories - Baron Von whomever, Ultron, the Vision, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, plus everyone from the first movie, all pushing things toward a Thanos movie ... but no Hank Pym in this, though Hank Pym later, and one assumes/hopes Doctor Strange shows up, with room for at third Thor and Captain America, and Guardians of the Galaxy, and yet no Fantastic Four or X-Men in this universe. It's getting so convoluted.

and apparently Steve Strange will bring Midge Urge with him

Midge Ure? Isn't that Thor's hammer?

JIC i'm usually with you on the movie stuff but in this case i feel a switch to decaf may be beneficial

i sort of want to see this but i've heard the action sequences are horribly done which makes me REALLY not want to see this. also, i don't like scarjo.

untrue re the action sequences ime but hey if that's what you heard

I counted about 5 1/2 action set-pieces, and I thought the last one (the big climactic one) was the only one that could have used a lot of tightening up.

No one in this movie has any fancy powers so the action is pretty grounded and coherent. Lots of hand to hand

iirc wesley morris (who is usually otm) complained in his review about the blocking and lack of establishing shots and i expected going in to be annoyed but imo their approach captured in a visceral way the notion of physical struggle between superhumanly strong, fast, and skilled combatants.

I really enjoyed the first one. I can't wait to watch it tomorrow.

The only fight that worked for me was CA vs. Batroc; the rest were cut to bits, but that's just 'cause they gotta work with what they've got and Chris Evans is never gonna be Tony Jaa. I was also left cold by the climax; the hunting-Nick Fury sequence was way more interesting than the big three-helicarriers bit. Basically, the more grounded the movie was, the better I liked it. Plotwise, it was interesting while still being geared toward 10-year-old boys ill-equipped to handle the philosophical rigors of, say, Person of Interest. A couple of decent bits of normal human behavior; I liked CA's little notebook where he writes down all the 20th Century pop culture he needs to catch up on, and the soldier-bro interaction between him and Falcon in general was fun.

this was awesome!!! much darker than the first, but not in a 'brooding bleak' way. Nice body count, too.

Johanssen actually wrote some of those snappy lines

I guess she figured she couldn't do any worse than the actual screenwriters.

this was appallingly stupid and inept.

Thank you.

darraghmac hates America

one of his best qualities

jaysus the glare of the three magi all at once

http://wp.streetwise.co/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/hocus-pocus.jpeg

"ello, we're maggie"

I had heard going in that this was arguably the best Marvel film to date, and it's hard for me to disagree. It's very good as an action film, above average as a paranoid thriller type homage, though still probably a bit overstated on that point in terms of what actually is happening in the story. Again the casting is really key; Chris Evans is good in the role but more crucially he's extremely likable in a part that could be a lot more boring and not very interesting, this extremely good and righteous moral hero who doesn't have much if anything in the way of dark shading. It could fall completely flat, cf any post-Christopher Reeve Superman, for example. But it's been executed really well in both of the CapAm films I've seen.

It does remind me to a certain extent of The Dark Knight, in a lot of it seems to be taking from genre thrillers rather than superhero films, but it's not nearly as morose and the Hydra plot is more interestingly diabolical.

this is however another Marvel film in which the climax involves large craft blasting away high in the sky and eventually falling slowly to the ground in a smoking ruin while people battle onboard and try to escape before it crashes....

apart from the brief appearance of Toby Jones, I snored through this

Well but what did you think of the 3.5 minutes you saw of the film?

pretty good!

it was just one of those things where the stakes seemed nonexistent and the "conspiracy" pretty obvious

If anyone, three or four more Marvel movies down the line, remembers a single solitary detail from this movie with any affection, I'll ... no, that will not even remotely happen. This is placeholder serialized franchise filmmaking at its most useless.

― Eric H., Sunday, April 6, 2014 12:11 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Posts that didn't age well

" this is however another Marvel film in which the climax involves large craft blasting away high in the sky and eventually falling slowly to the ground in a smoking ruin while people battle onboard and try to escape before it crashes...."

I think this has happened now in every Marvel movie since.

I haven't seen Endgame yet, but out of the 12 movies between Winter Soldier and it, it happens in 3: Guardians of the Galaxy, Age of Ultron, and Homecoming.