CHRIS BROWN

the way this has played out in public is not rihanna's fault. this

a recent story I saw where 40% of high school students polled(male AND female) said she probably "deserved it"

is a bigger cultural problem, not something that rihanna could magically make go away by leaving chris brown. i mean, i hope to god she leaves him, too, but i think people who get all righteous about what the victims should do in these situations have no idea what they're talking about.

xposts okay jon, i see what you're saying.

I think you're looking at different subsets of "everyone" there.

I think you're looking at different subsets of "everyone" there.

― Wes HI DEREson (HI DERE), Thursday, March 5, 2009 4:18 PM (1 second ago) Bookmark

no no no not this one again - at least a day off from the politics of "everyone"

Yeah, I'm certainly not speaking from the point of knowing how she should be reacting, my original post was worded badly. I'll just be really disappointed if she does get back together with him and it all kinda gets swept under the rug. Because, silly or not and like it or not, she is a role model and this will certainly make an impact on how some girls may treat a potentially abusive relationship.

hey now 1 of my best friends is everyone

hahaha point taken

Lots of real people think they should not get back together.

has everyone heard of kevin smith?

who?

she is a role model and this will certainly make an impact on how some girls may treat a potentially abusive relationship.

okay but shouldn't this line go, "chris brown is a role model and shouldn't have beaten anybody up"? i think there's a real tendency to get all into what victims of domestic violence (and rape, for that matter) should be doing to get themselves out of/avoid those situations but it always reads to me as a displacement--they're not the problem. it's harder to deal with what to do about victimizers, i know; but their behavior should be viewed as the source of the fucked-up attitudes we're talking about.

that was horribly put; sorry, i got heated.

Of course! I thought that part kind of went without saying though.

like, rihanna owes it to herself and her well-being to leave this asshole, but lets not put it on her if some young girl who loves "Umbrella" gets beaten by her boyfriend.

xpost well, i just think the way these conversations go is frustrating.

I guess I just wish she'd be very public about "fuck that guy and what he did", which is of course ridiculous to expect after all she's been through. Not blaming her in the least, just wishing it had played out in a slightly different way.

i know you know this, but if you're in a relationship where you get beaten like that you are in engaged in a daily erosion of your sense of self-worth. she can't be a rad action hero right now--she's going to need to recover.

Yeah...I think most people are working from the premise that regardless of how it started, how he handles the aftermath, or what happens to him as a result, CB is pretty squarely the 'bad guy' here and people are little less concerned about what message he sends as a role model now that he's, uh, nobody's role model. And ultimately everything that happens from here on out (whether they get back together or he goes to jail or his career is damaged beyond repair) rests on what she does and says now, which is why we're speculating on her actions and not his.

^
tbomb

i know you know this, but if you're in a relationship where you get beaten like that you are in engaged in a daily erosion of your sense of self-worth. she can't be a rad action hero right now--she's going to need to recover.

― horseshoe, Thursday, March 5, 2009 5:30 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

^^ 1 thing thats impt to remember is that its easy to cast this like the first & only time it happened which makes it seem odd that she not immediately condemning him--but unfortunately theres no reason to assume that it hadnt been a regular occurrence, maybe not as serious. and if thats the case--if in the past hed been abusive and the police WERENT called and it WASNT the grammies and he had apologized or what have you and she came back--it isnt that bizarre to see why its not an immediate cut-off reaction from her--its just that its public for the first time

i'm not entirely sure that he's nobody's role model. i read a quote by ne-yo somewhere defending him (i realize that they're friends and i do sympathize with ne-yo's position somewhat, but the language he used seemed to suggest that even if, as alleged, rihanna's injuries were at cb's hands, "we still don't know the whole story," which wtf?) i think attitudes like that are more characteristic of a culture where a bunch of people might think the victim of domestic violence deserved it than a victimized person not being sure if she's worth saving.

xpost

Didn't I see somewhere that Kanye defended him as well?

There were a lot of guys saying this, largely I think because many of them are thinking "oh shit, the squeaky-clean poster boy superstar just threw the 'angry nigger' tag on his shoulders, how do we stop that".

Kanye doesn't count, he just made an album about strangling girlfriends

yeah, Dan, i believe that that's likely part of the reason why ne-yo said what he did, but it still strikes me as an irresponsible statement vis-a-vis domestic violence.

xpost

"And ultimately everything that happens from here on out (whether they get back together or he goes to jail or his career is damaged beyond repair) rests on what she does and says now, which is why we're speculating on her actions and not his."

Except it doesn't. His career can still recover even if she doesn't get back together with him or forgive him publically or whatever. Fans tolerate the most awful shit.

yeah, Dan, i believe that that's likely part of the reason why ne-yo said what he did, but it still strikes me as an irresponsible statement vis-a-vis domestic violence.

You'll have no disagreement from me on that.

i hope jay-z has a hit out on him soon.

Not to get into the debate of comparing the crimes of the two, but R Kelly has certainly escaped the taint of some pretty indefensible shit with his career intact.

maybe, Alex (although I kinda doubt it). but the chance of CB ever having a hit again (or, say, not going to jail) would be 100x greater if Rihanna is back with him and publicly forgives him, etc.

R. Kelly, in his utterly mediocre defense, at least had the advantage of being with willing partners (even though he should still be in jail).

Uh did you read the thing above? I think her forgiving him is going to hurt her. It's not really going to help him.

the nature of CB's image and fanbase has at least much to do with why the R. Kelly comparison has no practical applications as the nature of the crime

Yeah, I agree with that, too.

i think it can hurt her AND help him but it's all kind of hard to predict

Okay, thats why I added my disclaimer beforehand, he was just the first high-profile R&B star I pulled out that was accused of some pretty repugnant shit and escaped with a mostly intact career.

(xpost)

True. I would just say that as a general rule domestic abuse is not a career ender. It might be in Brown's case though. Obv the fact that the victim is at least as famous as he is makes it somewhat different than oh lets say James Brown or whomever.

That is an xp.

I wouldn't say R. Kelly's career is "mostly intact"; to my (admittedly limited) knowledge, his sales have decreased dramatically since the allegations, turning him back into a niche act rather than a crossover (although lol I wonder how much of that was because after 1000 installments of "Trapped in the Closet", people started going "wau okay, he is seriously ill and we shouldn't encourage this").

I have no evidence to back this argument up so I won't be investing in defending it; it's an impression I've formed that is likely incorrect.

yeah dan's otm - after the trial wrapped his career has been nill, and it's not like the label buried him

R. Kelly definitely went a little down in album sales and is more an R&B star than a pop star but he still has had such an insane run of hits since then (particularly 03-05 at the height of the controversy) that you can't really say it slowed him down. I think the quiet around his career lately has less to do with the trial than the fact that "Hairbraider" was no "Ignition."

Double Up sold 1.4 million copies and debuted at number one, boy I'd love to have a "nil career" like that.

the trial Jordan was referring to was June of last year

My mistake, I thought Double Up was out after the trial. But really, the court of public opinion weighed in long before his trial ever actually happened.

Anyway, way too long spent on a tossed off comparison.

While R. Kelly has a career (sex crimes don't hurt your rep as much when you're a self-professed sex fiend), it sure put the kibosh on that Celine Dion crossover shit, U Saved Me or no.

maybe, Alex (although I kinda doubt it). but the chance of CB ever having a hit again (or, say, not going to jail) would be 100x greater if Rihanna is back with him and publicly forgives him, etc.

while this is true, even then I can't see him getting away with much more than a chorus on a rap hit, i.e. Ja Rule's "Thug Lovin' (feat. Bobby Brown)." All that "ooh girl i wuv you forever and ever" shit is out the window.

everyone vote for CHRIS BROWN for the Nickelodeon Kids' CHoice Awards for "Favorite Male Singer"!!!!

http://www.nick.com/kids-choice-awards/vote.jhtml?categoryVote=10

i don't know, it'll be interesting to see what the public memory span is on this

I mean yeah R. Kelly can still have a Top 20 hit with Young Jeezy if he wants, but the dude used to be able to get on shit like the Space Jam soundtrack.

Will the 2008 Fave Male Singer have "Exclusive" ownership over the category again in '09?

I think it is pretty safe to say that Chris Brown will not have the same career he has now when this is "over".

also chris brown and rihanna are robots as far as we know personality-wise - they weren't talk show staples before this shit. It's a lot easier for a guy to say "hey i put my thing somewhere i shouldn't have" than "hey i shouldn't have brutalized my famous girlfriend" and it's not like he's got that Hugh Grant charm in the first place. No reason to assume he was destined for icon status anyway.

chris brown always seemed kinda boring anyway IMO.