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Personal attacks are usually the last resort of a flailing intellect or mark an attempt to press someone's buttons - since Jules was both attempting to rip Melissa up AND had no idea what he was talking about, I guess he qualifies in both depts. But you know, the problem here is that with someting as personal as music it is very hard on both sides to separate criticism of the material from criticism of the consumer. It's a hard trap to avoid falling into I reckon... But it can be fun too, to jump in there I suppose.

Jules: "Get your head checked melissa" constitutes personal attack with intent. But what's this claptrap about banning the guy??? Tell me that's a fucking joke. I thought what he said was valid ranting.

And right-on Mark P - you are on the money.

Roger Fascist, Thursday, 22 August 2002 11:19 (twenty-one years ago) link

''irony = julio's stance as radiohead hata being JUST as cliched and as ho hum as he wants (hopes?) the new songs to be.''

yeah. I've heard everything they've done up to this and when I saw the descriptions it just reminded of the past. Irony indeed.

''its one thing to be convinced that radiohead are inauthentic or overrated; its another entirely to pounce like a wolf on anybody else who sees something in them, especially when the crux of that fan-music connection is one borne out of vulnerability.''

i did not intend to 'pounce'. I didn't know it was borne out of some 'vulnerability'.

''he (or anyone else) can take the sadness, confusion, anger, fear and deride it, mock it, HATE it all he wants.''

I love or hate a lot of music with nothing in between, which is unfortunate sometimes.

melissa- hope you accept my apologies.

''"Get your head checked melissa" constitutes personal attack with intent.''

yeah, and I apologised for that.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 22 August 2002 11:23 (twenty-one years ago) link

People should be able to discuss whoever they like without twats like him with no interest in what they're talking about pouncing on them, and there's little point in a board where people can't.

So yeah, deleting ILM would probably be a much more satisfactory solution than baring people. Don't tempt me.

Graham (graham), Thursday, 22 August 2002 11:28 (twenty-one years ago) link

So........does anyone want to hear my thoughts on the rest of the new songs i heard in Lisbon?

Leigh, Thursday, 22 August 2002 11:36 (twenty-one years ago) link

Yes.

Graham (graham), Thursday, 22 August 2002 11:37 (twenty-one years ago) link

Jesus nu-ilm is Logans Run....

Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 22 August 2002 11:41 (twenty-one years ago) link

You mean we have to be nice on new-ILM? I want out!

Genuinely, though, he's apologised, and I don't think his attack was that vicious in the first place (although I understand Melissa's upset at being told to "get her head checked"). Kiss and make up, folks.

weasel diesel (K1l14n), Thursday, 22 August 2002 11:41 (twenty-one years ago) link

great...nu-ILM is the nu-nanny state.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 22 August 2002 11:48 (twenty-one years ago) link

What's so difficult about being civil to each other?

DELETE FROM boards WHERE boardid='2';

Finger on the fucking enter key.

Graham (graham), Thursday, 22 August 2002 11:54 (twenty-one years ago) link

Some of the songs are surprisingly dissapointing -- Up On The Ladder, Go To Sleep, Wicked Child... 2+2=5 is alright but sounds like a 1995 b-side.

Punch Up At A Wedding is wonderful, however. Yorke seems to have perfected his knack for singing nasty, horrible lyrics while sounding all sweetness and light. "I don't know why you bother / nothing's ever good enough for you / ... / you've come here just to start a fight."

I don't think anyone's going to be surprised about the lyrical content of the songs -- it's still confusion, loss, despair, anger and so on. Scatterbrain and Sail To The Moon do show an unexpected tender side, almost. Wolf From The Door features a stream of consciousness rant full of non sequiturs which is geniunely unsettling.

I imagine the studio versions will be significantly different, though.

Clive, Thursday, 22 August 2002 11:55 (twenty-one years ago) link

Punch up at a wedding - one of the shagging songs, a slow burner with some funky piano and bass action from thom and colin.

Lift - a very old song, was supposed to be on Ok Computer, Ed's soaring backing vox on the chorus have been chopped and it's been slowed down quite a bit, not as good as the old version, although you may hear my high pitched squeaking on the bootlegs from the 1st night in Lisbon.

Wolf from the door - thom could be heard mumbling 'ooh baby, baby, baby...' over the middle eight, i guess he hadn't bothered to write lyrics before they played it, there was reference to Stepford Wives though.

Stand up, Sit Down - most like the Kid A/Amnesiac stuff, lots of analogue synth action from Jonny and vocal harmonies from Ed - speeds up towards the end with 'little raindrops' repeated over and over again.

I didn't get to hear the other new stuff cos i had to come home.

Didn't realise how crap i was at describing the new stuff until i posted this, you live and learn i suppose.


The band seemed the most happy and relaxed i'd ever seen them, a friend who has seen them more than 50 times seemed to concur.

It'll remain to be seen whether they'll manage to lay them down in 2 weeks as planned, something tells me the March 2003 release date may be pushed back.

Leigh, Thursday, 22 August 2002 11:57 (twenty-one years ago) link

This is silly, I think there's good reason why I've never seen anyone threaten to delete ILM in the year or so since I found it despite WAY WORSE threads than this and far more contenious arguments. Aside from whatever you think about me personally Graham don't escalate the situation, if you're going to moderate at least follow the example that was set by people who actually use ILM....

Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 22 August 2002 11:58 (twenty-one years ago) link

And I can be the most sanctimonious of them all...

DG (D_To_The_G), Thursday, 22 August 2002 12:07 (twenty-one years ago) link

The only reason I don't use it is because it's so fucking rub, and the only reason I haven't done anything about it is because I think it's beyond redemption. There are loads of people whose contributions I would like to read, but most of them have been pushed out by how annoying this place has become.

Graham (graham), Thursday, 22 August 2002 12:08 (twenty-one years ago) link

''What's so difficult about being civil to each other?''

I didn't think I was being vicious. I was actually trying to discuss some of the things around the music that was being described. why was [x] song the 'angriest' what made it angry in the first place. Sure, I didn't hear the music but there is the music and then there is the 'matter' that surrounds it. and i have heard radiohead...

also, are there a set of chords which make music mournful and why do they keep doing it over and over...

I was honestly curious about some of these descriptions and just trying to get some discussion but I think the way i put things in a bad way and i accept that.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 22 August 2002 12:09 (twenty-one years ago) link

Melissa..thanks for the descriptions.. I appreciate them..and thought them insightful....

Julio- I wish the fleas of a 1000 reindeer nestle in your genitals

that is all.

insectifly, Thursday, 22 August 2002 12:09 (twenty-one years ago) link

A comment on Kate's comment -- if they're playing the songs live to a paying audience, then I would no longer call the songs "works in progress." If people are paying money to hear them they better be done, I say.

I appreciated your descriptions, Mel. It's helpful because I know a little about your taste & have seen some of your writing so I have an idea where you're coming from. Where would you place these new songs in the context of the last three albums? Is there a place where they "fit," in terms of production, mood, etc?

Mark (MarkR), Thursday, 22 August 2002 12:10 (twenty-one years ago) link

what's so difficult about being civil to each other


Yeah I wonder!!!!

Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 22 August 2002 12:18 (twenty-one years ago) link

Most fit rather well with the jazzier excursions on Amnesiac. They're a bit more full-blooded, though. The songs I don't really like harken back to The Bends a bit more. Some of the songs do seem the slightest bit too straightforward. And they are definitely works in progress. Some literally changed from night to night. I hope they spice up some of the songs with unusual production/arrangements.

Melissa W (Melissa W), Thursday, 22 August 2002 12:18 (twenty-one years ago) link

At any rate, it was really nice to hear your descriptions Melissa.

Nicole (Nicole), Thursday, 22 August 2002 12:20 (twenty-one years ago) link

the new stuff seems to be a consolidation of all the post pablo honey stuff, although i can't really make firm comparisons between it and any of the old stuff. There's a warmth in the new material that's been lacking from their previous work. They seem to be in a much happier place just now. It's if they've been afraid of relaxing before in fear of it all collapsing, now they've to and it shows positively in the music.

Leigh, Thursday, 22 August 2002 12:23 (twenty-one years ago) link

Julio's not the only Radiohead hater here. But otherwise I'll keep my mouth shut.

Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Thursday, 22 August 2002 12:25 (twenty-one years ago) link

oops, looks like i haven't been paying enough attention to what i'm posting, my last sentence should have read 'now they've learned how to' - doh!

Leigh, Thursday, 22 August 2002 12:25 (twenty-one years ago) link

Thanks, Nicole. :)

Melissa W (Melissa W), Thursday, 22 August 2002 12:29 (twenty-one years ago) link

Apart from the few songs which verge on Pablo Honey-esque rockers, they feel like a straightforward progression (or refinement or something) from Kid A/Amnesiac. The band's claim of less computers/less studio trickery will be impossible to verify until the album is out -- the Kid A songs live featured reasonably standard arrangements.

Lyrically it's the same ground as the previous two; oblique, cryptic phrases, dealing with some vague non-specific dread. You know.

Clive, Thursday, 22 August 2002 12:29 (twenty-one years ago) link

They're recording it in L.A...who knows, it could come out sounding like the Eagles or CSNY.

Leigh, Thursday, 22 August 2002 12:38 (twenty-one years ago) link

We can but hope.

Andrew L (Andrew L), Thursday, 22 August 2002 12:53 (twenty-one years ago) link

''Julio- I wish the fleas of a 1000 reindeer nestle in your genitals

that is all.''

heh. forget about being nice and civil for now. Posting under our own names would be a start...

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 22 August 2002 13:45 (twenty-one years ago) link

Thanks for posting the song descriptions, Melissa. I'd try to download them, but the album versions of the _Kid A_ songs were so different from the preview versions I heard that I don't feel like bothering.

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 22 August 2002 13:51 (twenty-one years ago) link

"heh. forget about being nice and civil for now. Posting under our own names would be a start..."

uh this is my real name.. as much of one as you need to know- would posting 'Paul' be any more informative?.. and it was all in fun really... well, mostly at least.

insectifly, Thursday, 22 August 2002 14:51 (twenty-one years ago) link

(Please God spare us from another real name/psuedonym debate...)

deX! (Dan Perry), Thursday, 22 August 2002 15:17 (twenty-one years ago) link

Too late. (And to Melissa = yay. I enjoyed your takes very much -- and Leigh's too! :-) )

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 22 August 2002 15:29 (twenty-one years ago) link

Melissa, did u request candle in the wind?

naked as sin, Thursday, 22 August 2002 17:37 (twenty-one years ago) link

Mel descriptions = good. Tempting me to download unreleased songs = bad. Julio = obviously pulling mel's internet pigtails because he is in lurve.

b=n=w (bnw), Thursday, 22 August 2002 18:04 (twenty-one years ago) link

''Julio = obviously pulling mel's internet pigtails because he is in lurve.''

that would be 'indie' love then (lurve is too 'black' and therefore not allowed heh). Indie love= I slap her but I do not tell I'm in love with her (because i do not know how).

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 22 August 2002 19:45 (twenty-one years ago) link

Does this mean I won't be able to set up that "Who's the biggest wanker on ILM?" thread I'd been planning? Curse these new rules!

weasel diesel (K1l14n), Thursday, 22 August 2002 21:16 (twenty-one years ago) link

Melissa, did u request candle in the wind?

As far as my friends and I can determine, this request came from a girl that we refer to as "asscrack girl". Her real name has yet to be determined.

Melissa W (Melissa W), Thursday, 22 August 2002 22:55 (twenty-one years ago) link

that is to say her face looks like an asscrack or...?

naked as sin, Thursday, 22 August 2002 23:40 (twenty-one years ago) link

No, her face was remarkably moose-like. But, every night, she wore ill-fitting jeans that exposed her to the world.

Melissa W (Melissa W), Thursday, 22 August 2002 23:50 (twenty-one years ago) link

''Does this mean I won't be able to set up that "Who's the biggest wanker on ILM?" thread I'd been planning? Curse these new rules!''

if you did such thing I might actually come out on top after yesterday. Though ppl don't like doomie I think.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 23 August 2002 07:15 (twenty-one years ago) link

But, every night, she wore ill-fitting jeans that exposed her to the world.

Melissa's been hanging with J-Lo, kewl.

Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Friday, 23 August 2002 12:10 (twenty-one years ago) link

yes she has been 'influenced' by J-Lo.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 23 August 2002 12:18 (twenty-one years ago) link

90

Melissa W (Melissa W), Friday, 23 August 2002 22:14 (twenty-one years ago) link

"Go To Sleep" actually sounds a bit like it could have been on Murray Street.

Melissa W (Melissa W), Saturday, 24 August 2002 01:08 (twenty-one years ago) link

i really don't appreciate the 'delete ILM' stuff

ron (ron), Saturday, 24 August 2002 02:59 (twenty-one years ago) link

Graham - ILM and ILX worked as well as they did because it was an open secret that we couldn't ban people, and so the community mostly moderated itself, i.e. everyone would call Julio (or whoever) an asshole and he would say sorry. By having 'cops' with actual power (rather than rarely deleting threads) that gets lost (i.e. people think why should I say anything, I'm not a moderator) AND it lets people play the big rebel man by going on about nanny states etc etc. (i.e. it gives them a censorship straw-man to argue about rather than making them defend themselves).

In other words what I'm asking is please don't threaten to delete anything, and please don't delete anything either unless it falls into the (pretty tight) guidelines you know about as a moderator. People should be civil on web boards because they want to be not because they're told to be.

Tom (Groke), Saturday, 24 August 2002 08:42 (twenty-one years ago) link

Oh yeah FWIW I agree that Julio was being an arsehole and that if Mel felt hurt by it it's his fault not hers. And FWIW I agree with Jody Beth about the songs - Radiohead are interesting cos of what they do to their songs, more than because of the songs themselves.

Tom (Groke), Saturday, 24 August 2002 08:47 (twenty-one years ago) link

Radiohead are interesting cos of what they do to their songs, more than because of the songs themselves.

I actually sort of agree, though I do think that the songs themselves are good too.

Melissa W (Melissa W), Saturday, 24 August 2002 08:58 (twenty-one years ago) link

ilm is way better than ile

david h (david h), Saturday, 24 August 2002 09:03 (twenty-one years ago) link

(is that yr real e-mail address melissa?)

david h (david h), Saturday, 24 August 2002 09:04 (twenty-one years ago) link

always valuable to learn who an obscure young vocalist like this Yorke fellow "brings to mind"

Evans on Hammond (evol j), Monday, 12 February 2024 19:20 (two months ago) link

Again, why?

Davey D, Monday, 12 February 2024 19:24 (two months ago) link


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