Eric Dolphy

Don't know if you guys can see that, but it was supposed to be the cover of Ron Carter's Where?, on which Dolphy plays real goodly.

I heard Out to Lunch for the first time last Spring and was disappointed to find it didn't really do anything for me, but I'm loving the shit out of his playing on this. Maybe I'll give it another shot.

Loving the sound of the bass clarinet!

one of my favorite pieces of music film. dolphy's gotta be, what, a few months from death there?

can't really fathom 'Out to Lunch' "not doing anything" to anyone predisposed to like Dolphy ... I mean that's just crazy, it's his masterpiece

well i guess maybe those solo "God Bless the Child" are his masterpiece, but in terms of ALBUMS ...

I know, right? I was surprised too. I need to run by it again.

ah .. it is what it is .. you also might wanna make your way toward that Coltrane 'Europe Tours' box set .. much of which had been bootlegged for a while but finally came out when that Pablo box was released a couple of years ago. Just a fucking insane pairing .. we all know the Village Vanguard LP, but the Europe tour was insanity in its niceness

Will keep an eye out, thanks.

Still saving up for the Seven Steps box, though!

Gah Columbia & your exorbitantly priced 34 disc sets

can't really fathom 'Out to Lunch' "not doing anything" to anyone predisposed to like Dolphy ... I mean that's just crazy, it's his masterpiece

I understand OTL "not doing anything" for a Dolphy fan. I love Dolphy, and before a major CD theft a couple of years ago, I had just about everything he's ever played on. "Out To Lunch" is great, but it's awfully mannered. I understand Blue Note allowed for lots of rehearsal time, and I'm not averse to rehearsing per se, but OTL sounds rehearsed to me, in a way that doesn't serve the music as well as I'd like it to.

I personally much prefer the "Iron Man" and "Conversations" sessions from the previous year, compiled as "Dolphy Sound," featuring Woody Shaw, Bobby Hutcherson, Clifford Jordan, Prince Lasha, Sonny Simmons...

supposedly tony williams lobbied hard to get dolphy in miles' band (in the position later filled by wayne shorter). miles was dead against it, but holy shit, can you imagine?

That would've been crazy.

That rejection would have come before Sam Rivers' short tenure in Davis' band, meaning that Williams must have had a pretty serious mission trying to get Miles with more "out" musicians.

williams loved the avant-garde players. he used to sit in with cecil taylor, bill dixon, and others in the loft above the village vanguard during set breaks when miles' band was playing downstairs. miles wasn't happy about it, especially when williams expressed his preference for, and desire to play with, the more "out" musicians (dixon reportedly advised williams to stick with miles: "i'm not working. cecil's not working. miles is working.")

Lawrence, do you know what the loft above the Vanguard was called? Or what years it was active?

I'm interested in the lofts in NYC (I interviewed Rivers at the former site of Rivbea, Joe Lee Wilson at the former site of Ladies Fort, etc.)...

i think at that time (early/mid 60s) it was known as the Contemporary Center.

http://images.umvd.com/aec/Toenails/84855c8f145c4735a6ad14cab78b638c.jpg

ok that looks awesome

First place I ever heard "Green Dolphin Street."

Yeah, one of teh three great "Out..." Dolphy albums, with "Out There" and "Out To Lunch"!

speaking of "Free Jazz," nobody has mentioned Free Jazz: A Collective Improvisation By The Ornette Coleman Double Quartet

I haven't heard a ton of Dolphy, but love everything I've heard. Ingenuity, Integrity, Soul.

Brian Case once (approvingly) described Dolphy's bass clarinet as "snorting like a happy hippo" which I think entirely apt.

I attended a Cecil Taylor workshop a year or two ago where he talked about the sole time he played with Dolphy, in a loft on 14th street. CT admitted that he was not able to figure out what Dolphy was doing, and therefore not able to play with him effectively.

...This confounded me and my expectations.

In a way, I can see what Cecil means. Dolphy often made big harmonic/melodic leaps, whereas someone like Jimmy Lyons stayed within certain harmonic regions for longer periods.

I agree with you, Sarax3, considering Lyons plus some of CT's other reed-playing sidemen of the era. Lyons was definitely of a Charlie Parker mold, Shepp was awfully blues-based, and Ayler, though clearly steeped in his own conception, didn't exactly have an impenetrable system.

It makes sense that two artists with such developed and unique methods of playing and composing may have trouble being compatible.

Still, when I think of the skill, imagination, and vitality of both artists, I easily imagine them finding common ground. (Hence, the confounding...)

Curious how Dolphy seemed to fit into the music of that other renegade/revolutionary pianist Little Richard fairly comfortably (have a look at the horn section the next time you watch The Girl Can't Help It - there he is, complete with trademark goatee).

Also his successful spell with Chico Hamilton probably indicated that more space was an advantage for him - note how on Out To Lunch he uses Bobby Hutcherson's vibes instead of piano.

Dingbod--that's insane!

Are we sure?

I've never heard of Dolphy with Little Richard, I can only find a blog entry mentioning it, and if memory serves, the Simosko bio/disco makes no mention. I even tooled around on Youtube, to no avail...

He's definitely on there, though.

I remember watching the film as a kid on Saturday afternoon BBC2 and my dad pointed him out (first on the left?) and it was definitely him. Dolphy's presence was confirmed in the NME about ten years later.

Neat!

Is the sound on the RVG edition of Out to Lunch significantly better than the original issue CD (which I have)? Some of those RVG's can be a bit hit and miss. I'm in Tokyo right now so perhaps I should consider picking up one of the Japanese edtions...

I think the sound might be why I was so turned off by it the first time!

It was my first RVG and I was horrified. Then I realized it was a trend, but I haven't gone back to OTL since.

yeah, we had the RVG discussion on one or two other threads. Short version: avoid them

thanks for the advice :)

fwiw it took me a while to realize. it was totally "doth my ears deceive me?" b/c I knew RVG had engineered so many originally great-sounding records. I think it was the Maiden Voyage that pushed me over the edge, but I only felt sure of my opinion once I realized that others were experiencing the same

some of the RVG's that i've heard have been a bit on the bright side. and an overly 'bright' sounding OTL would be too tiring for my ears.

Charles Mingus said, "Usually, when a man dies, you remember—or you say you remember—only the good things about him. With Eric, that's all you could remember. I don't remember any drags he did to anybody. The man was absolutely without a need to hurt".

buy everything you see with his name on it.

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, July 14, 2005 6:34 PM (7 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

DOLPHY PO5:

At the Five Spot vol. 1 w/Booker Little
Coltrane - Ole
Mingus Town Hall 1964
Out There
Coltrane - Village Vanguard

Dolphy was the first jazz musician whose soloing I instinctively responded to, and remains foremost for me...

Out To Lunch! was recorded 50 years ago today, the same day Ali beat Liston in Miami for the Heavyweight Championship.

Just picked up Out There over the weekend for my first ever dip into his solo work. I'm excited.

Out There is incredible - one of our house's most played LPs. The cello / bass combo is something more people should have done.

otm. Ron Carter's Where? has a similar lineup: Carter, Duvivier, Dolphy, but with Charlie Persip and Mal Waldron.

i'm still waiting for more cello/guitar recs!

http://ecmreviews.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/improvisations-for-cello-and-guitar1.jpg

I kinda don't like Eric's solo on the "Out There" title cut very much - he keeps playing that one dipsy-doodle lick over and over for several bars at a time, like he's killing time while thinking of what to play next. Maybe it wouldn't sound that way if Haynes/Duvivier weren't so committed to 4/4, I dunno...

But yeah, still a very cool-sounding lineup in total.

thissss
https://vimeo.com/105420482

Woah.

did any other jazz musicians ever get into the bass clarinet? or did they just stay away from it because dolphy was so amazing.

that's the track that got me into him, love it

did any other jazz musicians ever get into the bass clarinet?

Byard Lancaster has some stunning moments on Bill Dixon's Intents and Purposes. And Harry Carney, John Gilmore, and Peter Brötzmann have all used it at one time or another, but none as their primary instrument.

cool, will have to seek those out... i really like the sound dolphy gets out of it! was listening to "spiritual" from coltrane's village vanguard box yesterday too, so good.

Bennie Maupin on Bitches Brew!

oh yeah that's right! guess maupin breaks it out w/ hancocka bit too.

two of the best purchases I've made this year were two double LP reissues from the early 70's, one just called Dolphy which includes Out There and Outward Bound, and another called Copenhagen Concert which is vols 1 and 3 of Live in Europe. On Prestige, they sound amazing and can be found for bargain prices (I paid $10 a piece). You don't get the cool original artwork but you do get some liner notes.

i have that same Copenhagen Concert 2xLP. it's awesome and sounds so good