Armond White:"Can Jay-Z and Diddy save hip hop?"

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The Kanye video isn't just T&A. And I'm pretty sure Jay never raps "let me reintroduce myself"

he does rap it, but it's "allow me to" and it's in the second interlude/psa. i haven't seen the 99 problems video yet; but i know at least parts of this interlude were mixed into the dirt off my shoulder video so i guess anything's possible.

andrew s (andrew s), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 02:52 (nineteen years ago) link

I read this thread as "Can, Jay-Z and Diddy save hip hop." Heh.

Laszlo Kovacs (Laszlo Kovacs), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 04:20 (nineteen years ago) link

http://www.furious.com/perfect/graphics/can1.jpg
gerades outta Deutschland

Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 05:20 (nineteen years ago) link

Lights in the city went dark, then all the ghetto folk began to glow like images in a thermal x-ray. Their phosphorescence symbolized life-force, a misunderstood (often misrepresented) energy.



I wonder if Hova lectured the director about the importance of misunderstood life-force during the filming of "Dirt Off Your Shoulder."

Erick (Imbroglio), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 05:58 (nineteen years ago) link

he actually can be an ok movie critic sometimes, i have to admit

amateur!st (amateurist), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 06:42 (nineteen years ago) link

haha when?

Matos W.K. (M Matos), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 07:44 (nineteen years ago) link

He may be over the top and largely wrong, but you have to admit that's a well written piece.

djdee2005, Wednesday, 12 May 2004 07:56 (nineteen years ago) link

he's made such an exercise of wringing every bit of MEANING out of "99 problems" (and "dirt off your shoulder", sheesh), you'd think he'd have more trouble dismissing every other bit of hiphop that doesn't see the music video as a minor branch of independant cinema.

m. (mitchlnw), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 08:25 (nineteen years ago) link

over the top + largely wrong = not well written (unless you mean "he wrote complete sentences and punctuated them correctly" = well written, which is wrong, too)

Matos W.K. (M Matos), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 08:26 (nineteen years ago) link

I mean he made his points, defended them well and used good examples.

I think he's wrong and that his compliments towards the video were over the top.
i don't see how that precludes it being a well-written piece.

djdee2005, Wednesday, 12 May 2004 08:28 (nineteen years ago) link

(sp = independent)(sorry, its a bugbear)

m. (mitchlnw), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 08:30 (nineteen years ago) link

actually, I'm being kneejerk. AW has written very well about lots of things--his piece on the Lovin' Spoonful's "Summer in the City" a couple years ago put his overblown tendencies to excellent use. I just think he's being shortsighted here, and that his good points ("Most hiphop videos don't document New York so much as portray its mean-streets myth") are outgunned by his not-so-good ones (see Strongo upthread)

Matos W.K. (M Matos), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 08:31 (nineteen years ago) link

the logic is sort of like "the Roots are so much better than the rest of hip-hop because they take rock values (live instrumentation rather than samples and turntables) and transpose them to hip-hop!" and I like "99 Problems" fine, but I didn't think I was seeing anything all that out of the ordinary for a hip-hop vid.

Matos W.K. (M Matos), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 08:35 (nineteen years ago) link

... then all the ghetto folk began to glow like images in a thermal x-ray. Their phosphorescence symbolized life-force, a misunderstood (often misrepresented) energy.

this is pretty funny.

m. (mitchlnw), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 08:41 (nineteen years ago) link

who knew predator vision had such emancipatory promise?

m. (mitchlnw), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 08:44 (nineteen years ago) link

reminds me of


http://images.google.ie/images?q=tbn:dce0zKbAxUcJ:www.timelinestudios.com/images

Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 08:44 (nineteen years ago) link

Ronan now that you've figured out how to post pictures you're just going nuts, aren't you?

Al (sitcom), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 08:45 (nineteen years ago) link

yes! but that actually did remind me of that!

Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 08:46 (nineteen years ago) link

how!?

Al (sitcom), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 08:47 (nineteen years ago) link

is that what you think Armond White looks like?

Al (sitcom), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 08:47 (nineteen years ago) link

I agree with Matos. White makes some good points about other hip-hop videos, and about the Making The Band show, but they're overshadowed by his usual misplaced hyperbole. (When determining the size of the salt-boulder you're gonna need to take his opinions with, remember that he's a paid-up member of the Church of Tupac, too.)

Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 10:08 (nineteen years ago) link

well that's odd considering that by basic tone of the article you'd think he'd not realized that hip-hop slipped out of new york's sole custodianship some time around 1985.

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 10:42 (nineteen years ago) link

I just think he's being shortsighted here, and that his good points ("Most hiphop videos don't document New York so much as portray its mean-streets myth") are outgunned by his not-so-good ones (see Strongo upthread)

i don't see how this video doesn't contribute to the "mean-streets myth," even if it does so with presumably greater verisimilitude (or wider lenses or whatever)

s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:09 (nineteen years ago) link

>well that's odd considering that by basic tone of the article you'd think he'd not realized that hip-hop slipped out of new york's sole custodianship some time around 1985.

The article is about how New York is portrayed through rap. Your statement has nothing to do with the article as it exists, everything to do with your rather rabid defensiveness w/r/t current hip-hop, and betrays near-total ignorance of White, who may well be insane, but is a smart guy nonetheless.

Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:14 (nineteen years ago) link

Hiphop's brick wall of stereotypes about the city and its inhabitants was erected by the culture itself. And because it's lucrative, those cliches got repeated. Stigmatization is perpetuated every time you see a music video by Lil Jon & the East Side Boyz, Juvenile, Bonecrusher or Nelly that reinforces banalities about the way black people live. In All Fall Down, even director Chris Milk ignores Kayne West's introspection ("We're all self-conscious, I'm just the first to admit it") for t&a.

none of his comparisons are from anywhere close to nyc, smart guy.

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:16 (nineteen years ago) link

except for nasty nas.

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:16 (nineteen years ago) link

i mean, if he wanted to discuss 50 or the new mobb deep video or even the new ROOTS video (for chrissakes), that'd be one thing. but comparing the "ha" or "country grammar" videos to "99 problems" as an example of its conversely realistic portrayal of life in nyc (yeah, sure) is a bit flawed, to say the least.

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:19 (nineteen years ago) link

or "all falls down"!

s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:20 (nineteen years ago) link

chi-town raise up

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:21 (nineteen years ago) link

it portrays the harsh realities of airport life

s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:21 (nineteen years ago) link

little bitches be squirtin your $600 shirt with mustard! that shit don't come out even with pre-treater!

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:22 (nineteen years ago) link

I actually like his movie reviews. I mean he doesn't shy away from letting you know how he really feels. Also, they tend to be pretty memorable. I think I see his "overblown tendencies" as strong emotional resposes. Not what you usually get with movie reviews, i guess unless you count "hated it" or "loved it."

danh, Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:23 (nineteen years ago) link

You miss his point. He's saying that hip-hop cliches w/r/t life in NYC have metastasized into cliches about black city life in general, no matter what city it is. And the "All Fall Down" thing is about fixating on Stacey Dash's ass instead of, I don't know, dramatizing Kanye West's angst or something. I think he's wrong (crunk, among its many other flaws, is totally not city-based music), but that's the point he's making.

Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:23 (nineteen years ago) link

an INTERESTING tack to take irt the "99 problems" video may have been how out of place it feels BECAUSE nyc is no longer the standard back drop for rap videos. even though, you know, it's not much more than the "ill street blues" video crossed with "closer".

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:24 (nineteen years ago) link

xpost: oh, okay it's just typical nyc chauvinism then, mea culpa.

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:25 (nineteen years ago) link

(the current state of rap vids owes way more to compton than nyc anyway.)

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:25 (nineteen years ago) link

you know, ass-fixation and angst aren't mutually inseparable

(xp)

s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:26 (nineteen years ago) link

(which was my point above about tupac all along x-post)

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:28 (nineteen years ago) link

How exactly do you hit a brick wall with imagery? Is the "lyrical content" driven by greed or are the lyrics rapped by "greed-driven" narrators? Setting White's argument aside, this is some terrible writing.

Keith Harris (kharris1128), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:30 (nineteen years ago) link


xpost: oh, okay it's just typical nyc chauvinism then, mea culpa.

Haha! (This had in fact crossed my mind but I decided to wait on saying it...)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:32 (nineteen years ago) link

i thought ass-fixation and angst were the same thing?

gareth (gareth), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:44 (nineteen years ago) link

I keep thinking the guy's called 'Almond'. It makes his full name sound like an ice cream flavour.

Barima (Barima), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:50 (nineteen years ago) link

Astoundingly bad. I particularly like this line:

"It was not a great day for the race when the entertainment industrial complex took on the artisanal productions of urban youth, eventually taking over their dreams."

Right, because it's fine to let urban youth dream of being celebrated for their talents, so long as they have no chance of actually making any money out of it.

Dave M. (rotten03), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 14:54 (nineteen years ago) link

I agree with Matos.
-- Phil Freeman (newyorkisno...), May 12th, 2004.

first time for everything, right Phil?! ;-)

Matos W.K. (M Matos), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 22:25 (nineteen years ago) link

but Romanek himself summed up the cliches back in '91 when musing on a concept for De La Soul's Ring, Ring, Ring (Hey, Hey, Hey). Chicago-born Romanek lamented, "All rap music videos look the same. They're all shot against a brick wall."

I used to watch rap videos all the time in 1991 and I don't remember them all looking the same at all. I remember pink cadillacs flying in front of the moon, another car ploughing into a burning cross, Queen Latifah knocking giant chess pieces off a board, and scenes shot in Egypt.

Rockist Scientist, Wednesday, 12 May 2004 22:38 (nineteen years ago) link

when I say terrible film critic, I mean TERRIBLE


Sideburns, ducktails, money, blood and sex–that’s the satirical surface of 3000 Miles to Graceland. Underneath is a pretty fair assessment of American ambition gone wrong. Kevin Costner plays Murphy, a sociopath obsessed with Elvis Presley who rounds up a gang to rob a Las Vegas casino during an Elvis imitators’ convention. If the symbolism’s bloated, so is the idolatry that Costner and director Demian Lichtenstein deride. Presley’s legend haunts the movie as a fat, gaudy, bankrupt ideal that still serves to motivate the disheartened.

Murphy and his partner Michael (Kurt Russell), desert mom Cybil (Courteney Cox) and her ragamuffin son Jesse (David Kaye) aren’t doomed, they’re pathetic, double-crossing each other in ways that suggest the hollowness of life predicated on money; losers who console themselves with the world’s plunder. 3000 Miles’ early climax–the robbery sequence–is the most calamitously violent action scene ever to put a thought in the audience’s mind. Unlike Kubrick’s inexorable fatalism in The Killing, this sequence is just blunt. "As wild and as daring as anything on the American landscape," says a startled tv reporter. (Or else, simply the best contemporary shootout Walter Hill didn’t direct.) Though it’s similar to the kind of pointless bang-bang moviegoers accept as a Saturday Night Special, I vouch for the split-second editing that catches a bullet going through an Elvis cape. And I salute the cut to the exterior that shows a chopper coming to rendezvous with Murphy’s band. Suspended in midair–and time–this image, hovering over the casino, is breathtaking.

The entire movie has the feel of being in moral suspension. Despite the caper plot and bloody intensity, this isn’t a typically cynical neo-noir. That War in Vegas sequence establishes a spangly, neon miasma so that we watch the peacetime story appropriately aghast at the evidence of contemporary dissolution. 3000 Miles tracks pessimistic ex-cons, broken families on the road, boys without role models, casual venality, the familiarity of violence. It’s flashy but it’s also uncanny. The story of Michael’s corruption opposes Murphy’s hopeless corruption (announced in the 3-D credit sequence). It seeks decent, humane gestures (among them, Ice-T keeping thieves’ honor through a spectacular sacrifice) and, with a sense of topsy-turvy grace, moves toward light. Michael, Cybil and Jesse sail off into uncertain political waters just like the characters in Peckinpah’s The Killer Elite. If critics mistake 3000 Miles for a Renny Harlin jamboree (or instead, find it inferior to such trash), it will prove how far we’ve fallen, no longer looking for meaning or emotion in action movies.

No actors are more empathetic than Russell and Costner. Both leathery and wizened, they’re surrounded by character types (David Arquette, Bokeem Woodbine, Howie Long and Christian Slater) distinctive enough to sharpen Jesse’s–our entire culture’s–sense of role-model fatigue. That Murphy, with his scorpion belt buckle, was a Nam medic before going bad signals deep distress that might be vague to today’s audience. Still, Lichtenstein, searching for the right, meaningful detail, uses the action genre as a dramatic form expressing the modern generational dilemma–without being lugubrious like Sean Penn’s The Pledge. Lichtenstein and cowriter Richard Recco come up with a saying for our times when Murphy, in a fight, is told, "That’s your criminal right!" The line transcends sarcasm; it bravely discloses a genuine social imbalance–as in such nonpresumptuous action flicks as George Armitage’s Vigilante Force. I fear that 3000 Miles might speed past many people’s heads just as the 70s road-movie alienation of Duets did last fall. These entertaining little movies hint at Americans’ barely articulated desires for a change of priorities and enlightened models of behavior. That overworked, blustery Elvis image (which serves as a conscripted uniform for Murphy’s gang) should provide a wake-up call even to those who share Greil Marcus’ wet dream.

Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 22:38 (nineteen years ago) link

greil marcus' wet dream?

Sym (shmuel), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 22:45 (nineteen years ago) link

I don't want to know.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 22:47 (nineteen years ago) link

you mean you don't share it?

Sym (shmuel), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 22:58 (nineteen years ago) link

That review makes my heart hurt.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 23:02 (nineteen years ago) link

did we ever get this sorted lads

for sale: clown shoes, never worn (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 11 August 2017 08:33 (six years ago) link

somewhere in my hellsite of a flat i have a copy of a new york city sun (from 1992 i guess?) which contains two long articles by armond white (while it lasted he was its critic-in-chief)

1: is a long detailed look at malcolm x the historical figure and malcolm x the movie
2: the other is a long favourable look at morrissey, who AW was very evidently drawn to

given both their subsequent trajectories i think this is both telling and -- to be fair to AW -- perceptive

(the movie came out the exact month of the madstock/union jack controversy, which is where inklings of doubt did begin elsewhere; can't recall if the city sun piece discusses this or predates it; should probably look it out and report back, perhaps a month off-line wd do me good)

mark s, Friday, 11 August 2017 10:45 (six years ago) link


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