― Pashmina (Pashmina), Sunday, 5 October 2003 18:22 (twenty years ago) link
― sundar subramanian (sundar), Monday, 6 October 2003 00:14 (twenty years ago) link
― anthony kyle monday (akmonday), Monday, 6 October 2003 05:27 (twenty years ago) link
― Damian (Damian), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 08:33 (twenty years ago) link
― Øystein Holm-Olsen (Øystein H-O), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 08:45 (twenty years ago) link
Funny how the third phase (after a first "British blues" phase and the second, "classic" phase) of the band hasn't been referred yet. As Rick Wakeman's solo career declined, and Yes were craving for a new breath for their career, Wakeman got back to the fold and Yes penned two (in my opinion) great albums (Going for the One & Tormato), which mixed their standard complex arrangements with a straight-forward rock feeling. Highlights from this phase: Awaken - Parallels - On the Silent Wings of Freedom - Future Times, etc.
Then, the band started breaking up: Anderson quit, and Wakeman followed. Instead of quitting, Squire, Howe and White brought the Buggles (Trevor Horn and Geoff Downes) into the band and created my favourite Yes album ever: DRAMA. Probably the heaviest of all Yes albums, it is chock full of great basslines and guitar riffs. Horn is similar in tone and pitch to Jon Anderson (though he has a Police-era-Sting type accent), while Downes keeps himself away from flashy solos, providing mainly some textures and backgrounds, and the occasional melodic line. Machine Messiah, Does It Really Happen? and Tempus Fugit are the highlights, but all tracks are great.
After this schizoid line-up, Yes broke up for a couple of years, just to be reborn as a art-pop number, leaded by South Africa's own guitar-wankery master Trevor Rabin (who tried to overshadow a returning Jon Anderson both on singing and songwriting fields), and produced by former Yes-man Horn, but that's another story...
― JP Almeida (JP Almeida), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 10:06 (twenty years ago) link
But yeah what I'm really loving is the creaky, grainy darkness of the folky tracks. All those Mellotrons, I love Mellotrons. Did any more-folk-less-prog bands make much use of the Mellotron? I'd love to hear it.
As for In the Court of the Crimson King, the first two tracks are amazing, but as it goes on I like the rest of it less and less...
I want suggestions!
― Steve.n. (sjkirk), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 10:59 (twenty years ago) link
Fwiw I think you started with the right band (Yes) but I'm absolutely positive you'll like Caravan (they evolved from The Wylde Flowers who of course were part of the Canterbury Scene.... may I presume you're familiar with Soft Machine, Gong, Robert Wyatt and Kevin Ayers already?) and King Crimson.
After that I'd suggest you give Camel, Barclay James Harvest, Jethro Tull and Van Der Graaf Generator (Mr. Lydon was a fan of theirs you know!) a try too.
In all instances however I suggest you treat their "post-punk" output with extreme caution....
My personal theory (which naturally I am not prepared to elaborate on, discuss or justify in any way whatsoever) is that pretty much all of the Prog bands unconsciously did everything they could to pave the way and set the stage for the advent of Punk; laying themselves wide open to every bit of shit that was thrown at them in the process; by plunging head-first straight up their own self-indulgent arses at some time between '75 and '79.
Of course this is why fine, noble, intelligent, upstanding young gentlemen like yourself and myself believed all the Punk rhetoric and saw nothing of value in Prog - because by then it really was all a load of old bollocks!
The one exception to this wildly sweeping generalisation that is so hugely and monumentally, glaringly bloody obvious that I can't possibly even attempt to ignore it, is King Crimson ("like Remain in Light with more noodling and even more polyrhythms" isn't too bad description of 1981's "Discipline" and 1982's "Beat" btw, although of course they've gone on somewhere else again since then!)
Oh and there's absolutely nothing wrong with compilations when you're trying these bands out either; that sounds like just another pompous conceit to me (although that might just be a fragment of those old blinkers still stuck in the corner of my eye). In fact I'd specifically recommend:"Where But For Caravan Would I...?""The Compact King Crimson" (or failing that "In The Court Of The Crimson King" AND "Discipline")"Echoes" (Camel) "The Collection" / "Mockingbird" (Barclay James Harvest)"Original Masters" (Jethro Tull)"First Generation" (Van Der Graaf)
― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 11:28 (twenty years ago) link
― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 11:41 (twenty years ago) link
No mellotrons, but if you want the darkest, dankest, proggy folk, you could do worse than investigate the first album by Comushttp://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~rneckmag/comus.html
― NickB (NickB), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 11:49 (twenty years ago) link
Fwiw (I did say I wasn't going to attempt to justify my comments precisely because I knew they'd inevitably lead to this sort of debate!) my belief is that the demise of Prog through auto-asphyxiation and the advent of Punk (in the UK at least) were both direct consequences of the huge bottleneck that seemed to exist at that time between the bands with the dry ice and the flying pigs and who could fill the stadia (the "rock aristocracy" that Dadaismus describes above) and the little guys slogging their way 'round the pub circuit.
The guys at the bottom thought they'd never be able to get to the top (hence the willingness of so many of them to leap aboard the first passing bandwagon that offered a chance for them to break the stalemate and get noticed) and the guys at the top who had no real competition and thought they could do what ever the fuck they liked.
Of those at the top, the Proggers simply happened to be those whose self-indulgence was most obvious and undeniable and this in turn made them the easiest targets!
Hence of course the reason why it was OK for Mr Lydon to wander 'round wearing a Pink Floyd T-shirt with "I hate" written across it whilst singing the praises of Can, Beefheart, "Bitches Brew" and Van Der Graaf Generator!
― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 12:08 (twenty years ago) link
― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 7 October 2003 12:21 (twenty years ago) link
A flawed gem.
― Joe (Joe), Sunday, 12 October 2003 14:42 (twenty years ago) link
Q: "Would the Mahavishnu Orchestra appeal to people who follow prog rock?" A: "For many, yes."
Q: "Is the Mahavishnu Orchestra a 'prog rock' band or a 'fusion' band?"A: "Who cares?"
― Joe (Joe), Sunday, 12 October 2003 14:50 (twenty years ago) link
Not a hard-core Hammill nut, but have heard a few...
Definitely Recommended:A Black Box
Good:Silent Corner...Nadir's Last ChanceFireshipsLoops & Reels
Eh: Chameleon in the Shadow of Night (solidly in the minority here)Out of Water
― Joe (Joe), Sunday, 12 October 2003 14:56 (twenty years ago) link
I agree with you, if you replace the words "suffers badly from..." with "if so much fucking better it hurts because of..." :)
― Joe (Joe), Sunday, 12 October 2003 15:00 (twenty years ago) link
I love 'Inner Mounting Flame', but I still have a bit of a prob. w/ the jazz-rock electric violin on it (at least there's no jazz-flute!)
― Andrew L (Andrew L), Sunday, 12 October 2003 15:04 (twenty years ago) link
― Joe (Joe), Sunday, 12 October 2003 15:08 (twenty years ago) link
Does that song seem to be riffing off of "Mademoiselle Mabry" (off of Miles' Filles de Kilimanjaro), or am I just imagining things?
― Joe (Joe), Sunday, 12 October 2003 15:13 (twenty years ago) link
RelayerTales From Topographic OceansYessongsClose To The EdgeFragile
― Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Sunday, 12 October 2003 16:32 (twenty years ago) link
― JP Almeida (JP Almeida), Sunday, 12 October 2003 18:00 (twenty years ago) link
― Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Sunday, 12 October 2003 18:30 (twenty years ago) link
― JP Almeida (JP Almeida), Sunday, 12 October 2003 19:39 (twenty years ago) link
― dleone (dleone), Sunday, 12 October 2003 21:05 (twenty years ago) link
― Damian (Damian), Sunday, 12 October 2003 22:24 (twenty years ago) link
― Vebga, Sunday, 12 October 2003 22:35 (twenty years ago) link
― Damian (Damian), Sunday, 12 October 2003 22:46 (twenty years ago) link
― Venga, Sunday, 12 October 2003 23:01 (twenty years ago) link
Prog was un-Peel because the man himself felt that groups like Yes, ELP and Deep Purple didn't need what limited exposure the show could offer them (he was presenting Top Gear at the time, I think). The odd thing is, while he wouldn't play Deep Purple, he's perfectly content to play the Datsuns. But I don't want to concern myself with them here.
It's funny how Tales From Topographic Oceans makes Relayer seem as concise as an early Beatles album.
― Damian (Damian), Sunday, 12 October 2003 23:39 (twenty years ago) link
The Yes Album is totally great, Phil - you should definitely pick it up. I can't imagine that you wouldn't like it. It's got Bruford, Squire and Howe, for crying out loud! It has to be good!! "Starship Trooper" and "Yours is No Disgrace" are as "prog" as anything on the follow-up Fragile.
Let's talk about Going For the One! I love that record. The title cut is one of the best songs they ever wrote, and "Wonderous Stories" is classic hippie Anderson.
Has anyone heard that alternate "Gates of Delerium" yet?
― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Monday, 13 October 2003 02:18 (twenty years ago) link
― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Monday, 13 October 2003 02:20 (twenty years ago) link
― gaz (gaz), Monday, 13 October 2003 02:34 (twenty years ago) link
― Damian (Damian), Monday, 13 October 2003 06:58 (twenty years ago) link
― dleone (dleone), Monday, 13 October 2003 10:19 (twenty years ago) link
― Damian (Damian), Monday, 13 October 2003 10:44 (twenty years ago) link
I actually really like "tales from topographic oceans", even though it's really kind of indefensible in a lot of ways - it's overlong and unfocussed in many places, the playing lacks the crispy dynamic feel of their earlier albums, the whole "concept" is a bit flakey, and so on. I don't think the record's actually great in itself, but there are so many great bits on it, that I really enjoy listening to it.
"Going for the One" is pretty cheesy in a lot of places, I think, but the two tracks where they used the swiss cathedral organ ("parallels" and "awaken") I really like. I wish they'd used it a bit more. "Awaken" I love, I think it's the last really great track they did - "Owner of a Lonely Heart" and all that stuff I like just fine, but you don't, like, inhabit the musical landscape like you do w/say "close to the edge". In "Awaken", it's the whole section where the song breaks down to just the harp and pipe organ, then it builds and builds from there that gets me. Put it up on some decent speakers, nice & loud, and it's just fukcing great.
The new yes remasters are really good, I must say. They seem to have proper dynamics, not maximised like the omd and simple minds re's i got recently, the sound is nice & crisp, the bonus cuts aren't great for the most part, but they are generally interesting at least, and the packaging is nice. They made me happy!
― Pashmina (Pashmina), Monday, 13 October 2003 10:58 (twenty years ago) link
No it isn't. Let's see - Neu: songs all on one chord (E usually); all in 4/4 time (no variation allowed); solos (none to speak of); virtuosity and technique (irrelevant). Not really much like Yes then.
― Dadaismus (Dada), Monday, 13 October 2003 11:03 (twenty years ago) link
I have to admit, I really love the sound of the full-fledged pipe organ when it's placed outside of the usual, expected context (church music, etc.). One of my favorite tracks by the Incredible String Band is "Antoine," which is just church organ, violin, and vocals...excellent arrangement.
― Joe (Joe), Monday, 13 October 2003 13:47 (twenty years ago) link
― Damian (Damian), Monday, 13 October 2003 23:12 (twenty years ago) link
On CD it's just called Spheres and only four relatively mellow cuts have been retained.
Prog?
― (Jon L), Monday, 13 October 2003 23:22 (twenty years ago) link
As for prog, what's Over by Peter Hammill like? Of all the stuff he's done, this is what I'm most curious about.
― Damian (Damian), Monday, 13 October 2003 23:44 (twenty years ago) link
That's "Ginasteria," coming soon to a store near you! Be on the lookout for the first single: "Pour Some Melody on Me"!
― Joe (Joe), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 00:03 (twenty years ago) link
― Joe (Joe), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 00:04 (twenty years ago) link
― Damian (Damian), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 00:08 (twenty years ago) link
― Sean (Sean), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 00:11 (twenty years ago) link
― nickn (nickn), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 01:14 (twenty years ago) link
It's pretty good but more of a "song" album than a "prog" album - it's also one of the most miserable, self-obsessed, self-absorbed albums I've ever heard, all about his marriage breaking up
― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 10:01 (twenty years ago) link
― Damian (Damian), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 10:09 (twenty years ago) link
― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 12:12 (twenty years ago) link
― Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 14 October 2003 12:51 (twenty years ago) link
second The Yes Album as a good jumpoff
― the 500 gats of bartholomew thuggins (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 30 January 2012 21:10 (twelve years ago) link
yeah Relayer and CttE are great albums (CttE is slowly becoming one of my favorite prog albums ever) but you kind of have to be into the band in some respect first.
― frogs you are the dumbest asshole (frogbs), Monday, 30 January 2012 21:12 (twelve years ago) link