HIS DARK MATERIALS

However, I wouldn't compare them to the H.P. tales - I think that _HDM_ is meant for a more mature audience, and the stories are infinitely more complex. While the H.P. story line is becoming increasingly complex and addresses more issues, the stories still make me think of fifth- and sixth-grade student readers, whereas I think of seventh- and eight-grades as being the starting points for _HDM_ (which is the same range for The Lord of the Rings in my mind, though The Hobbit works with younger little ones.

Why eight?

HDM is very pompous, portentous, but full of excellent tales which do try and push the envelope (ick) for children's fiction. He's really made an effort, and while it all gets a bit up its own arse, it's pretty damn good reading.

I assume you're able to get in there already, surely.

Is anyone going to buy/read Lyra's Oxford?

("for the Dads")

I thought the third was disappointing, but I don't know how it couldn't have been. Pullman was throwing his never ever-wider with every book (staring out in our world at the beginning of Knife was a great shock, and the dust = dark matter stuff was good too). But the third kept having to add more and more concepts, and then characters to explain concepts, to close all the doors it had opened (ha ha). Oh here's xx swooping in to explain what needs to happen next. Felt a little rickedy. Lots of compelling locales/events (land of the dead esp) but the overall shape was a little diffuse.

death of decrepit unhealthy pope-like god: not even a little narrator announcement 'and thus, they killed god' it's not even mentioned later, by anyone, 'uhh, d'you know what you did back there?'

Mary Malone's story of her childhood love and then leaving her faith was terrific, but otherwise I felt some of the NO GOD GEDDIT stuff near the end was a little too telegraphed, a little to SUCK ON THAT, CS LEWIS.

Does anyone know this other thread or is it all in my head?

Narnia nd Fairy Tales
Alan Garner: C or D?
Susan Cooper: C or D?
Northern Lights
His Dark Materials

possibly not

(withdrawn god = kabbalah!)

15 (the twelve was just a rough estimate)

My thoughts on finishing amber spyglass by the way is that it is a perfectly english ending, and therefore crap. Down with catholicism up with anglicanism (same structure without as many rigid sexual hangups) and meanwhile growing up means getting over adventure and becoming a boring scholar.

That reminds me of the thread I keep thinking I imagined, where mark s came up with an intriguing new concept of history and time.

http://www.spikemagazine.com/0602amberspyglass.htm

Great. Philip Pullman appears to have turned into Terry Pratchett without the sense of humour.

Church of Englanders protesting about the oppression by religion = just fucking pathetic, to be honest.

in that case -- as my memory of the book is v spotty (i suspect bcz flaws in book but also a long time since i read it) -- the TV show handles this with rather more clarity even when their motivation is intensely conflicted (towards lyra, towards one another). with her especially -- more thx to ruth wilson than philip pullman maybe? -- we have learned always to read everything she does thru a "things not as they seem" filter. metatron is amusingly rude abt her to her face ("you are a cess-pit of moral filth") but she is NOT AT ALL BOTHERED and her face just says "i know you are but what am i"

Really enjoyed the whole series of this. The Amber Spyglass was prob my least favourite of the books and I did wonder how some things could possibly work on screen, but they pulled it off. Both young leads loads better in the last season. Not a spoiler, but the visuals for the physical battle in heaven and plunging fall were absolutely stunning.