What do you think of MTV Teen Mom Farrah Abraham's first single?

but isn't reality tv just outsider acting

If it's on TV it is not outsider, it is monoculture.

It's kind of like when you had critics saying the blurry action scenes in Transformers 3 was a brilliant work of abstract art.

okay but her music is not on tv so

'outsider' means unschooled if not mentally ill

like, gw bush is an outsider painter

and he was president!!

point is it's a pretty dumm and fraught term

"outsider" is also often used with a shade of "fails to achieve what it sets out to achieve but accidentally achieves something else great"

it's kind of a condescending term in that way, but honestly it's hard to imagine listening to farrah abraham in a way not slightly tainted by condescension.

adam bruneau = the board's Allan Bloom

"but honestly it's hard to imagine listening to farrah abraham in a way not slightly tainted by condescension."

what if you find value in the sounds she makes and the emotions she conveys

condescension is underrated

Yeah i thought 'outsider art' meant 'Someone who is living outside of society'. Shut-ins, hermits, etc.

Applying it to W or Farrah seems to invoke a different meaning, more to do with kitsch or ironic appropriation (and including condescension).

Her music is pretty interesting tho, I have to admit. Like if a more boring version of Ed Wood had been given Michael Bay's budgets.

I'm like 98% sure I've already had this convo w/ you but the idea that authentic outsider artists (lol) aren't subject to kitsch or ironic appropriation or condescension is just baffling to me

Ok punching holes in whatever dumb arguments are making is fine, and I admit I'm trolling a little. Still, how 'outsider' can you be when your first single is premiered on http://www.intouchweekly.com?

You seem to have a weirdly rigid idea of what constitutes "outside" society adam

Surely it's possible to feel like an outsider or express outsiderdom even while ostensibly being part of mainstream society? Especially if you're someone who's experienced the kind of life trauma and weirdness FA has?

'outsider' is a slippery concept, obviously superstars & heads of state &c. often feel separated & isolated, kanye feels persecuted or w/e, but expressing that is different from being removed from mainstream aesthetic discourse

Like if a more boring version of Ed Wood had been given Michael Bay's budgets.

if she's going to be like any version of Ed Wood then surely she meets some reasonable definition of 'outsider'? I'm sure anyone who wanted to be a pop star and had a reasonable budget or backing could get some jobbing producer (e.g. anyone above ARK Music Factory standards) and make something that did a passable if probably not very interesting job of being pop music. That FA seems to have deviated from that easy path somewhat is notable at least.

But Ed Wood didn't have his own syndicated show and flock of gossip magazines eating up everything he said did he?

But yeah y'all have some good points to make and yeah my idea of 'outsider artist' does seem to clash w the regularly accepted parameters. Just seems like someone doing something really pedestrian and mainstream but utterly failing, rather than bringing anything unique to the table other than a complete lack of talent. But it doesn't really matter that much to me so I'll shut up about it.

I doubt it's THAT easy -- I imagine most jobbing producers would prefer not to work with reality stars, hence most reality stars getting fairly fifth-string producers

(I kind of like to think of "outsider artist" in terms of "will this shit still exist in 30 years or is it doomed to be ephemeral" but that's also a re-interpretation)

there's plenty of ultra-mainstream crap that is forgotten immediately tho

I like imagining that "the dude who runs the audio recording facility closest to Art Institute of Ft. Lauderdale" is the Michael Bay of pop music! Would like to know if this guy actually produced the whole album, though.

there's definitely something in the term about slippage between intent and effect. i think what we mean an artist who has some aesthetic power but it's not what was intended. or the intent is really opaque.

one of my favorite local art exhibits of the past few years was a bunch of work done as part of art therapy for people with really profound mental illness or disability. there's almost no way to talk about it w/o terms that slide into condescension, i guess. but just on a formal level these artists happened upon (see? "happened upon") ways of working or repeating things that were really affecting. and maybe they wouldn't have been so powerful had i not known the story; there's no way of knowing.

W/ Farrah Abraham "outsider" is an easy way to avoid using the phrase "experimental artist," which she (also?) is. It might hedge against agency/intentionality (probably not wrongly, but who knows?). It's a bit of a game of not quite this ("experimental musician") but definitely not that ("pop star"). I really don't understand how anyone could listen to "MTDE" and think, "oh man, listen to all these failed pop songs!"

I figure that "My Teenage Dream Ended" sounds very much like what she was intending it to sound like. I think she was messing around and through ambiguous means ended up with something great, and that any accidental greatness isn't any more or less accidental than anyone else's greatness.

CelebURty -CelebURty --CelebURty

is there some deep meaning behind her spelling it this way in the video description's lyrics? anyway i am really enjoying this

i figured it was just "U R a celebrity"?

I am singing this new song constantly.

xp oh of course! farrah is always operating a level ahead of me when it comes to wordplay and such (only just realized that fla, in addition to obv being her initials, refers to "the sunshine state" itself)

i've also been playing this song more than i thought i would initially

rubbing shoulders with fatman scoop in the latest series of celebrity big brother
praying for a collab

I particularly loved when it was her shot to fire the canon and she jumped up singing "I like balls, I like balls"

Off-topic but I am fully on-board with a Celebrity Big Brother starring Farrah, Scoop, Tile Tequila, Janice Dicking on and Jenny Jameson

*Dickinson, what an unfortunate autocorrect

man this album is really fucking something

yeah

I want her next album to be a straight cover of
http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/smurfs/images/d/dc/Father_Abraham_In_Smurfland.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110830210200

i don't want to tie eeeeeverything to trump but someone needs to theorize the creative power of stupidity

i can only put so much in a post

i still have a burned copy of this in my car

"After Prom" the parts where they have overdubs of her frantically whispering "don't tell don't tell don't tell don't tell don't tell don't let it get out" is crazy

With Out This Ring... still a jam

i miss that! ring

Well here's a deep cut come to life

http://www.thefader.com/2017/11/21/farrah-abraham-album-producer-interview

she sang it to a metronome!

fuck me, this album is already six years old???

She made another song two years after the album - it's slightly more normal, but she still has no idea what the words "rhythm" or "rhyme scheme" mean.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h53AzPEdku0

Farrah Abraham HATES Joan Didion and thinks you should buy HER OWN book over Slouching Towards Bethlehem. She has suddenly become our most fearess critic. https://t.co/Y2BeQZnfs3 pic.twitter.com/ge6hzCme4t

— Who? Weekly (@whoweekly) March 6, 2019

looool

lol

i actually tried reading my teenage dream ended! couldn't finish it