this last guy I argued with claimed that getting some of these diseases like measles was a normal part of childhood and it strengthened your immune system to have measles and beat it rather than never getting it, and dismissed those that died from measles as part of natural selection, ie "kids are gonna die choking on a Snickers bar, whatyagonnado?"
― Neanderthal, Friday, 14 March 2014 16:07 (ten years ago) link
there's no science whatsoever behind the "staggered vaccine" idea, and there are at least minor drawbacks to it.
― james franco tur(oll)ing test (Hurting 2), Friday, 14 March 2014 16:08 (ten years ago) link
I'm pretty sure the "middle ground" is benefiting from herd immunity while doing your damnedest to selfishly undermine it.
― Orson Wellies (in orbit), Friday, 14 March 2014 16:10 (ten years ago) link
Tell it to someone who does it.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 14 March 2014 16:14 (ten years ago) link
dismissed those that died from measles as part of natural selection, ie "kids are gonna die choking on a Snickers bar, whatyagonnado?
I've always found this view to be abhorrent but now that I have a kid, this gives me the rage.
― carl agatha, Friday, 14 March 2014 16:15 (ten years ago) link
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/03/13/thanks-anti-vaxxers-you-just-brought-back-measles-in-nyc.html
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 14 March 2014 16:17 (ten years ago) link
Why not just send your kid outside without clothes and feed him only one meal a day -- good for the immune system! Natural selection will eliminate the weak among us anyway.
― james franco tur(oll)ing test (Hurting 2), Friday, 14 March 2014 16:17 (ten years ago) link
http://img.wonkette.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/tomjerry.jpg
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 14 March 2014 16:22 (ten years ago) link
Really we should be injecting kids with the Ebola or Marburg virus. Toughen 'em right up.
― bi-polar uncle (its OK-he's dead) (Phil D.), Friday, 14 March 2014 16:25 (ten years ago) link
people used to have more kids, if jonny got measles or suzy got kicked by a cow you had four more, so it's cool
― have a nice blood (mh), Friday, 14 March 2014 16:44 (ten years ago) link
jeez suzy got kicked by a cow??
― christmas candy bar (al leong), Friday, 14 March 2014 16:52 (ten years ago) link
not our suzy, I think
― have a nice blood (mh), Friday, 14 March 2014 18:08 (ten years ago) link
I dunno if this'd actually work but anti-bad-science writer/doctor Ben Goldacre has a book called 'Bad Pharma: How Drug Companies Mislead Doctors and Harm Patients' which sounds right up the street of these kind of people but is totally pro-science, just analysing how the system is actually broken and can be fixed (by better use of/more open science, I assume) (I haven't actually read it)so maybe it could be a mind-changing portal, although I expect he slags off snake-oil woo in the first paragraph so mileage may vary.
― kinder, Friday, 14 March 2014 18:24 (ten years ago) link
IIRC vaccines aren't even that profitable for big pharma
― james franco tur(oll)ing test (Hurting 2), Friday, 14 March 2014 18:40 (ten years ago) link
big pharma IS super shady and greedy and probably totally has the govt in their pockets... it just doesn't change the fact that an insane amount of children used to die of diseases that we've made virtually extinct through vaccinations.
i guess next they'll be telling us that hardly anyone ever died from measles or polio or whatever and that it's some big governmental coverup of history.
― just1n3, Friday, 14 March 2014 18:42 (ten years ago) link
yeah what I was getting at is if anti-vaxxer types started reading the book with a false sense of security it might learn them something?
― kinder, Friday, 14 March 2014 18:43 (ten years ago) link
yeah they're really not. they're probably the least shady concern for big pharma
― gbx, Friday, 14 March 2014 18:53 (ten years ago) link
Mental health medications probably the biggest moneymaker. They don't even really have to work right, since everyone has different chemistry.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Friday, 14 March 2014 18:58 (ten years ago) link
have to assume that these "don't trust BIG PHARM" types are equally suspicious of all other large capitalist industries and shun them accordingly
― pings can only get wetter (Noodle Vague), Friday, 14 March 2014 19:00 (ten years ago) link
Well considering how often a lot of them insist that we are literally being POISONED by one of the safest food supplies man has ever known
― james franco tur(oll)ing test (Hurting 2), Friday, 14 March 2014 19:02 (ten years ago) link
these people are beyond science and reason
― rhyme heals all goons (m bison), Friday, 14 March 2014 19:53 (ten years ago) link
I felt like a bit of an asshole for my reply to this person last night (something like "can't wait for all of the people you and your kid will infect") but it genuinely pisses me off because this is a difference of opinion that manages to fuck over other people.
― Neanderthal, Friday, 14 March 2014 20:03 (ten years ago) link
that's kind of the sad punchline. people try to reason or use scientific explanations to debunk ideas rooted in a lack of interest in science and reason.
I recommend engaging logical fallacies. For instance: - Find an example of a conspiracy advocate who had their kids vaccinated. If they did it, there might be a reason! - I don't know anyone with measles but these vaccinations have to have some purpose and a lot of otherwise intelligent (or influential) people have received them. Do you think maybe they're actually protection against chemtrails?
― have a nice blood (mh), Friday, 14 March 2014 20:06 (ten years ago) link
― rhyme heals all goons (m bison), Friday, March 14, 2014 3:53 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
unfortunately you are actually otm:
http://m.pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2014/02/25/peds.2013-2365.abstract
― k3vin k., Friday, 14 March 2014 20:48 (ten years ago) link
Oh Kristin http://defamer.gawker.com/reality-star-idiot-kristin-cavallari-refuses-to-vacci-1544086342
― get up in this twerk cypher (sunny successor), Friday, 14 March 2014 21:51 (ten years ago) link
"Listen, to each their own," she said. "I understand both sides of it. I've read too many books about autism and there's some scary statistics out there. It's our personal choice, and, you know, if you're really concerned about your kid get them vaccinated."
Read too many books, eh? I knew it.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 14 March 2014 22:21 (ten years ago) link
didn't know they made popup books about vaccination
― Neanderthal, Friday, 14 March 2014 22:22 (ten years ago) link
stupid two sides to every issue idea is ruining the world
― sent from my butt (harbl), Friday, 14 March 2014 22:22 (ten years ago) link
http://sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/i/to-read-too-many-books-is-harmful.png
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 14 March 2014 22:23 (ten years ago) link
Wow, sorry. That's big.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 14 March 2014 22:24 (ten years ago) link
keep calm and read too many books about autism
― sent from my butt (harbl), Friday, 14 March 2014 22:24 (ten years ago) link
she's trying to come off all "don't be judgey" except these choices don't just fuck your own kids, they fuck a whole lot of people's kids, kids who don't have the luxury of choosing vaccination. seriously, fuck these people.
was kinda shocked recently to find out my MIL is somewhat of an anti-vaxxer (she was play therapist for autistic kids for years). really had to bite my tongue, but didn't do a very good job of it.
― just1n3, Friday, 14 March 2014 23:30 (ten years ago) link
welcome to the age of pseudoscience
― Neanderthal, Friday, 14 March 2014 23:33 (ten years ago) link
As opposed to the age of no pseudoscience?
― tsrobodo, Saturday, 15 March 2014 00:49 (ten years ago) link
its an endless age
― Neanderthal, Saturday, 15 March 2014 00:49 (ten years ago) link
Someone with a young daughter was going to get her vacced for HPV with Gardasil, and then saw the scam article that says IT'S DANGEROUS and of course immediately believed it. I sent her the Snopes entry on the subject and her response was, "It's good to hear both sides, I want all the information to make decisions for my child." NO. NO IT IS NOT GOOD, THERE ARE NOT TWO SIDES JESUS CHRIST
― Orson Wellies (in orbit), Saturday, 15 March 2014 13:46 (ten years ago) link
"information"
― pings can only get wetter (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 15 March 2014 13:49 (ten years ago) link
some people lack the basic faculties to differentiate between sources like a respected medical journal and, say, aintitcoolnews.com (#lorax)
― Neanderthal, Saturday, 15 March 2014 13:56 (ten years ago) link
It's someone I really don't want to alienate bc it would disturb other important relationships, but oh my god.
― Orson Wellies (in orbit), Saturday, 15 March 2014 14:06 (ten years ago) link
yeah it's hard to tread lightly in these cases when it's friends or family. serious question - what's the demographic for the anti-vaxx community? if there is a definitive one.
― Neanderthal, Saturday, 15 March 2014 14:13 (ten years ago) link
Perpetuating this stupidity doesn't require people to be ANTI-vax, it only requires them to enjoy play-acting at being thoughtful and rational by "weighing" the "pros and cons" on "both sides."
― Orson Wellies (in orbit), Saturday, 15 March 2014 14:16 (ten years ago) link
I think it makes people feel smart to say they're doing that, right?
― Orson Wellies (in orbit), Saturday, 15 March 2014 14:17 (ten years ago) link
I'm guessing it's alien to me as part of my anxiety includes OCD tendencies so whenever I do the 'weighing the pros and cons' that involves me reading 3000 articles which by then makes me well aware of the quackery on the other side.
― Neanderthal, Saturday, 15 March 2014 14:20 (ten years ago) link
― Kiarostami bag (milo z), Saturday, 15 March 2014 15:39 (ten years ago) link
I was mad when I wrote that. Really I believe that if someone's behavior seems nonsensical it's just because you don't understand their motivations. This is not really about whether or not the vaccine is secretly harmful, it's about something else (or elses). Most obviously in this case parents' understandable reluctance to deal with the idea of their child as a sexual person at age 12.
― Orson Wellies (in orbit), Saturday, 15 March 2014 15:52 (ten years ago) link
serious question - what's the demographic for the anti-vaxx community? if there is a definitive one.
Hippies and wannabe "attachment parents". Try the forums @ Mothering.com, they eat you alive if you even mention vaccinations.
― franny glass, Saturday, 15 March 2014 15:54 (ten years ago) link
yeah i always tell myself that the left's antiscience idiocy (vaccines, gmos) isn't nearly as harmful as the right's but the gap isn't as large as i'd like. i guess the left's antiscience is rooted in something far more anodyne and vaguely right (corporations are always evil and should not be trusted, govt is controlled by coroporations) than the right's antiscience is (corporations are always good, government is anti-business, b-b-but the bible, general misogyny and racism).
― balls, Saturday, 15 March 2014 16:34 (ten years ago) link
The Left's antiscience idiocy is as harmful cos the right isn't going to care about the poor at any rate and if the left abandons them for essential oils and spa days then the poor are really sh*t out of luck.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Saturday, 15 March 2014 16:48 (ten years ago) link
the return of diseases that were targets for eradication and were nearly regionally eradicated a few years ago and the labeling or even banning of gmos don't compare to anti-enviromental regulation, anti-alternative energy research funding, anti-science research funding in general, or inaction on global warming imo
― balls, Saturday, 15 March 2014 16:58 (ten years ago) link
https://scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t1.0-9/1455032_288122684677356_1539879744_n.jpg
― how's life, Wednesday, 26 March 2014 12:15 (ten years ago) link