Quick! Should I see Vivian Girls tonight?

(Which, if you're young and everyone's listening to Arcade Fire or Death Cab or something, might make sense.)

^^ strawman.

interesting you mention slumber party - i think they suffer from similar problems to the VGs in that their sound is more important to their appeal than their songs (although i think their songs, particularly on their debut, are 100x better than VG). they were probably never huge because they're older and for some reason anything matthew smith is involved in gets ignored by everybody

Do you mean older in the sense that the average age of the members is higher, or older in the sense that murky, low-key indiepop bands were less likely to break out into the indie mainstream at the turn of the century than they are in 2009? I agree with the latter (& will have to give it more thought), but I have no idea how much the first part is true or how relevant that would be in terms of fame.

"their sound is more important to their appeal" is basically spot-on w/r/t Slumber Party. There are always people like me who tend to fall head over heels for reverb-drenched janglepop with woozy, Kendra Smith-ish vocals. But of course if they weren't capable of writing one good song, then they'd only be a very passing obsession for me. As it is, I've only been listening to them for maybe a year, but it seems like they were never really the Next Big Thing even when they were at the peak of their popularity.

i kinda jokingly meant the former wrt 'older' but the latter as you state it does seem more accurate. there were opportunities there (particuarly with the poptones connection) that never went anywhere and their buzz was minimal at best. psychy stuff still seems very limited in 'coolness' these days unless there's a garage edge to it

or a punk edge. It's funny how the girl-group-pop-meets-punk formula is still help as a bit of a novelty or at least a quirky, gimmicky selling point in reviews (unscientific googling here). To be fair, I guess it's vaguely useful to describe the Vivian Girls as a cross between The Ramones and The Shangri-Las when you're dealing with a wide audience that doesn't necessarily know JAMC or Black Tambourine. The garage pop label might leave readers scratching their heads regardless of how accurate it is, and coming straight out and labelling them "pop-punk" would prompt unwanted parallels to Green Day and their mainstream ilk. Eh, if the description helps hip them to the kidz, then why not?

fuck, I hit the submit button too early by accident; meant to post this fwiw:

or a punk edge. It's funny how the girl-group-pop-meets-punk formula is still held up as a bit of a novelty or at least a quirky, gimmicky selling point in reviews (unscientific googling here). To be fair, I guess it's vaguely useful to describe the Vivian Girls as a cross between The Ramones and The Shangri-Las when you're dealing with a wide audience that doesn't necessarily know JAMC or Black Tambourine. Coming straight out and labelling them "pop-punk" would prompt parallels to Green Day and their mainstream ilk, and that doesn't conjure up as much mystique as positing a *strange* *new* *exciting* mash-up of '66 pop and '77 punk. Eh, if the description helps hip them to the kidz, then who cares (except me) if it's a little stale?

the garage label does get invoked a lot by the press in VG reviews, so ignore the garage bit in that last post, at any rate

Straw men are usually for attacking, Ian! But my point there was just that in terms of overall trends, certain sorts of shambly/modest indiepop haven't been hugely visible over the past several years -- what's been more popular has been more ambitious and often shinier -- so it makes sense to me the bands along these lines might grab some people's attention.

Also, unregistered, I would totally not expect the Indie Pop List to be "less excited" about things that sound a lot like old indie pop, not in the least. The dynamic of that audience is not really like that.

I'm convinced that the VGs are Tiger Trap or Go Sailor time-warped 10 years ahead into WebTwoPointOhLand -- thanks to those good-for-nothing villains at the Legion Of Doom.

OMG SUPERFRIENDS, GET US OUT OF THIS 'BLOGOSPHERE'!

fair enough xp. I guess I don't understand the audience well enough to be able to make those kind of sweeping statements without coming across as a little clueless. Whether I'd like to understand it is another question entirely :P

It's a little depressing that there's such a high demand in that scene to recapture the spirit of 1994, but it's no worse, to be fair, than the even larger audiences who turn to Kings of Leon and the White Stripes as the second coming of the classic rock era greats. Sometimes a revival manages to be more ambitious/exciting/explosive than the original movement that inspires it; the fact that this is a very rare occurrence isn't necessarily reason enough to discredit retro-fetishism entirely.

(throw in a few more entirelys there if you want)

This is pretty otm, but it doesn't explain why the Vivian Girls have such a strong nationwide following w/ hardcore indiepop fans who do realize that the music is more-or-less old hat. If you lurk on the indiepop list & read the year-end poll, you'll see people gushing over them with very little backlash. This is (presumably) a crowd who followed Black Tambourine 20 years ago and Slumber Party 10 years ago, so you'd expect a little less excitement from those parts.

The easy answer, I guess, is that twee lifestylists are happy to gush over any new act that reminds them of the Golden Age of Indiepop, and they're slow to turn their noses up at any music that comes out of their own fuzz-pop ghetto, regardless of its (un)originality. If the concerts are fun and the crowds are friendly, then it's easy to be a little forgiving and noncritical about the music as long as its reasonably fun and intimate (I'll give the VG's that much credit, at least...)

For me, the answer is that I like a handful of Vivian Girl's songs. A lot. And look, I like innovation and experiment in art, but I can also appreciate stuff that has a comfortable feel and/or grooves and/or has great hooks and/or compelling songwriting and/or wonderful technique or some other admirable quality (so long as it isn't a steady diet of total pastiche).

My case against them basically boils down to "they're nothing new, and I don't get much enjoyment out of their songwriting, groove, texture, hooks." I'm not trying to indict all music that doesn't break a lot of new ground (if that's the way you interpreted the quoted post), and fwiw I'm pretty sure I like Slumber Party for all the same reasons you like the Vivian Girls. If I happen to dislike a particular band, I tend to dwell on points like unoriginality, even if they're no more or less innovative than x artist that I'm absolutely in love with.

No worries. Nothing wrong with your feeling at all (obv.).

Actually, your post got me to wondering what -- these days -- is innovative/groundbreaking in rock, anyway? I mean, would the F---k Buttons (pretty/abrasive), Radiohead (rock/electronics (circa Kid-A)), Animal Collective (as eMusic just described them: psychedelic '60s pop + Jamaican dub + Grateful Dead bootlegs + Terry Riley +mesmeric German techno), M.I.A., The Advisory Circle qualify? I dunno. I feel like are easily dismissed, maybe because they have an audience/buzz. If not them, that's fine, but then who? I'd say maybe The Books, The Bug, Burial and some other stuff, but that's not really rock (neither is M.I.A., but I feel like she could qualify).

I dunno...I was thrilled by the Vivian Girls when they first came out, and I'm one of those people who raved over Slumber Party* and Black Tambourine, and the Aislers Set too. Months later, I find myself only listening to that one Vivian Girls song - you know, the one by the ex-member - whereas I can still turn on Psychedelicate or my old Pam Berry 7" singles and enjoy them as music (as opposed to "sound").

To push this post further off topic: Slumber Party put out a great CD, Musik, in 2006 that got completely lost in the shuffle. Completely different lineup and a 180 away from the JMC-distorto old sound.

Never heard the bands you mentioned (except Black Tambourine, who I just discovered). But I'm heading to eMusic with those names now, to check 'em out.

(Sorry for incoherence; posting and parenting are hard to do at the same time. Must go now and turn on Mighty B).

the first two aislers set albums are fantastic. i think all the SP albums are there too - i might go and get 'muzik' myself since it's the only one of theirs i don't have

I debated buying a $4 copy of SP's third album last month, but I passed it up in favor of a more budget-friendly Jimmy Somerville comp. I can vouch for the fantasticness of their debut and Psychedelicate, and now I'm pretty curious about Musik.

But my point there was just that in terms of overall trends, certain sorts of shambly/modest indiepop haven't been hugely visible over the past several years

Visible to me and visible to you are slightly different things, and I understand what you're saying, but there's no reason the Vivian Girls should be bigger right now than, say, Cause Co Motion, or some other lo-fi brooklyn indie pop band.

I am going go not post on this thread anymore, because part of my new year's resolution is to be less of a hater. And I admit I might give these ladies more of a chance if I didn't know them when they were playing screeching weasel covers in my friend's apartment.

why they get so much press: huge fat fucken titties

we've established that i think

sad truth, only one of them is cuet since fr4nki3 left the band.

xcvnfxngjkds i know i said i would stop the hating.

http://bestmessageboardever.com/uploads/monthly_06_2008/post-2636-1212621923.jpg

katy's cans

nsfw

(´・ω・)つ(・(・

@___@

lard a'mercy

I find myself only listening to that one Vivian Girls song - you know, the one by the ex-member

Which one is that? Is it "Where Do You Run?"?

Good god, this thread

i've had the phrase 'kickball cansy' in my head all day thanks to this thread

This is pretty otm, but it doesn't explain why the Vivian Girls have such a strong nationwide following w/ hardcore indiepop fans who do realize that the music is more-or-less old hat. If you lurk on the indiepop list & read the year-end poll, you'll see people gushing over them with very little backlash. This is (presumably) a crowd who followed Black Tambourine 20 years ago and Slumber Party 10 years ago, so you'd expect a little less excitement from those parts.

Even ten years ago the indiepop list had the same split... posters liked C86 bands and they liked the 90s bands that were inspired by those same C86 bands. And there were people posting the exact same observation you are on the list as well, except they were asking why all the fuss about Black Tambourine!

Putting aside the somewhat subjective claim that the C86 bands were actually better, the advantage of the contemporary bands was that their records were easier to get a hold of and you could maybe see them perform live. And as others have noted, the concept of "old hat" doesn't really map onto indie pop aesthetics.

As for the strong nationwide following... they don't have that. They get press because they're young and they're cute and they put out a record they're happy to give interviews about. It doesn't take much more than that. Operating out of NYC probably helps a lot as well.

if they encourage kids to get into early/ier slumberland albums then their existence isn't a total waste

the new single is reeeeeeally good imo

minute plus instrumental outro = good idea!

is that "when i'm gone"? it is pretty good.

(´・ω・)つ(・(・

I am on board with the Vivian Girls.

xp lol is that boobs or something?

it's kneading tits

looks like a butt, to be fair, but it's the best we got

Finally listened to the new album and IMO if you love Black Tambourine, Tiger Trap, Slumber Party etc etc etc and you don't like this there is something wrong with your ears.

mentioned this a bit on the other thread but yeah i think the 2nd album is ridiculously better than the first. also they were pretty darn tight live

there is a new song available through lol polyvinyl.

it's clean and midtempo with lots of harmony i.e. it's v. boring :(

xpost
nsfw pic rip

Such an angsty thread. Those 2nd and 3rd records were pretty solid. Mostly. The world could do with more Vivian Girls songs than we ended up getting.

Wow, I was the last poster on this thread.

Anyway, they're back, and I've not seen any mention of it here. This sounds kinda promising.

https://youtu.be/OYwmrOCAd_s

Yeah, we have tickets for SF

here for this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oUWoj6KXpM

yes

The whole album sounds nice and dense. Possibly similar to Everything Goes Wrong in that it may take a few listens to absorb the finer details.