Disney animated features: The rappel à l'ordre (1989-1994)

Darkwing became a favorite of my roommates and I in late undergrad years. That and Animaniacs.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/5af65785b3163ab26156e3ea6ca1840d/tumblr_msca2woFGH1sh28k6o1_400.gif

Ariel having to lose her voice to morph into a different form is cool. There's a vague psychoanalytic kind of logic about it.

i loved the disney afternoon as a kid, pre-teenage years. darkwing duck, talespin, BONKERS, gooftroop, the aladdin series.. all great imo. never got into the lion king tv series but liked the movie well enough.

Disney animated features 1991-2000 poll
A Poll New World: Disney Animated Films of the 90s

don't remember ducktales anymore. would probably go for little mermaid for the music

― k3vin k., Wednesday, March 12, 2014 11:31 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Oops - didn't even think to look for other polls on this one, sorry guys. Still think it's worth doing since it kind of continues the rolling discussion from the other threads maybe? Also it's been fun to have these in such small chunks I think...more discussion on each movie.

re: the cutoff - not really 'quality' based for me, just familiarity really - although I do feel like, Hercules aside, the second half of the decade maybe goes for more "grown-up" or teen oriented, more human characters, slightly darker tones visually (and maybe thematically?). This one is a "which is my favorite" poll, and the next one will be "which of these should I finally watch"?

re: DuckTales and the Treasure of the Golden Suns TV special/opening arc: yes yes yes. El Capitan forever.

Lion King as feline Hamlet, with JTT as the prince of Denmark, enemies beware.

"I've never seen a mighty king with quite so little hair" is a friggin gross line.

little mermaid i kinda sorta resent because it's so completely eclipsed andersen's (admittedly kind of fucked-up) story. i think most of the changes made in other, older disney movies are defensible (i doubt many ppl would argue that snow white should have ended with the queen being forced to dance herself to death in red-hot shoes), and i doubt anyone wanted to see poor ariel commit suicide, but the distance between the tone of the source material and the tone of the movie is really kind of incredible here.

TLM boasts the most enduring songs. My four-year-old niece has seen all these but will hum "Under the Sea" and AHHHH-AHHHH-AHHHH AHHH-AHHH-AHHH KEEP SINGING!!! all day.

I was going to say: not even Disney stamped out the sexual undertones in Hunchback, in which the priest by the fireplace sings a song celebrating/cursing his lust.

I don't think comparing it to source material is a fair argument no matter what angle you go for. They could make a tragedy into a romcom and it would be irrelevant to the quality of the movie, no exceptions.

in other words

http://25.media.tumblr.com/e6751ffda7821ae0d1e7e1c24f7ecf75/tumblr_mj8jrh39n61rfduvxo1_500.gif

you're right, i prob wouldn't care if i actually liked little mermaid (pinocchio isn't anything like the book, and iirc neither is bambi), but i kind of hate it. 'fake broadway musical' is my least favorite type of disney film.

fox and the hound is very different from the book

ha, speaking of broadway musicals, my sister is obsessed with howard ashman, so little mermaid is a clear favorite of hers. she made me watch a dvd featurette where howard ashman gives a presentation to the other disney guys about how musicals are structured and how the little mermaid's songs map onto that structure, and it was actually pretty interesting. he talks about how difficult ursula's song was to pull off because it's both expository and motivating a huge plot-turning change, and you risk the audience's suspension of disbelief when you're doing so much in such a short amount of time. like i mentioned earlier, i liked the montage in beauty and the beast where belle and the beast grew closer, and it turns out that was scored by an ashman song too ('something more').

always thought that despite the usurping uncle, timon + pumbaa make lion king functionally more henry iv than hamlet. wish he banished them at the end.

iirc disney only started claiming that lion king was based on hamlet after ppl started pointing out this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kimba_the_White_Lion#The_Lion_King_controversy

haha i never read this part:

Matthew Broderick has said that when he was hired as the voice of Simba in The Lion King, he presumed the project was related to Kimba the White Lion. "I thought he meant Kimba, who was a white lion in a cartoon when I was a little kid," said Broderick. "So I kept telling everybody I was going to play Kimba. I didn't really know anything about it, but I didn't really care."

Not sure how I'm voting really. Beauty & the Beast is the one that I would for sure never allow a child to watch if I had any say in it - I mean it is explicit training in some of the most dangerous ideas loose in our society, papered over with the idea that it's somehow progressive because Beauty is clever, misunderstood and (initially) 'independent.' Really it should be pulled from the shelves like Song of the South, or at least retroactively re-rated R or something. Lion King almost as noxious but at least it lacks this fig leaf.

Little Mermaid may actually be the most defensible of the 'big' ones, insofar as the giving-up-of-legs is framed as a bad call, but difficult listening hour is sooooo OTM that it would be so much better if the plot weren't about a man, but just Ariel's curiosity about the wider world. It could even be something like Kiki's Delivery Service, where the conflicts and emotional drama grow directly out of the disappointments, misunderstandings and terrors of stepping out into this wider world. The relationships with the sisters could be prioritized - she misses them, they misinterpret her surface adventure as a signal that she doesn't need/love them, etc. etc. Maybe she makes a best friend on the surface and that friendship is pulled apart/jeopardized by the ~world that doesn't understand~ (see Fox & the Hound). Basically, what if it were a Miyazaki movie and not a Broadway/Disney number? Because the animation is there, the songwriting is there...oh well.

Kinda tempted to vote DuckTales, which I did see in the theater, packed into the neighbors' station wagon, but remember not even slightly. It'd be an honorary vote for the TV show, which was great and I think kind of universally agreed upon (at the first grade lunch table) as the best thing on TV or at least on par with Ninja Turtles. I haven't seen Rescuers Down Under, but when I finish the first one I could give it a spin - it's the only one of this batch available on Netflix, and I'd be interested to see how the Rescuers concept plays with, I believe, a bigger budget and updated technology - first film to use the "CAPS" system of computer-inking and coloring the hand-drawn cels.

it would be so much better if the plot weren't about a man, but just Ariel's curiosity about the wider world. ... Maybe she makes a best friend on the surface and that friendship is pulled apart/jeopardized by the ~world that doesn't understand~ (see Fox & the Hound). Basically, what if it were a Miyazaki movie and not a Broadway/Disney number?

haha doc casino you're basically describing ponyo!

haha, maybe i should skip the unheralded rescuers sequel and finally watch ponyo..

I voted Beauty because the ballroom scene made me feel like I was watching The Future Of Animation

Incidentally, if Wiki is to be trusted, both Rescuers Down Under and the DuckTales flick were experiments whose box-office disappointment confirmed the "all blockbusters" approach. But this again is where I think Katzenberg's fiat has to be thought of in the same terms as Walt's; some other person might have said, "ehh, pretty good returns for being a sequel to a movie no current kids have seen, up against Home Alone, and with an Australian theme that's already lost its shine." Granted, I'm not sure how different this world would be - more films about adventurous mice? - but still.

first entry in teal&orange.xls you were correct

I'd almost vote for B&TB because Angela Lansbury.

i voted beauty + the beast and i'm curious if detractors (particularly doc casino) feel the same way about the original source material as they do about the film? i ask bc fairy tales in general contain all kinds of dodgy stuff

the famous katzenberg letter, he begins to discuss rescuers down under some starting on pg 15

Uh, saw the 4 big ones. A friend had Beauty & The Beast on laserdisc, so we watched that a whole bunch of times until he got TERMINATOR 2 and omg bye-bye stupid foofy wannabeast. Gaston song is amazing though! Remember seeing a clip from The Little Mermaid at some sort of Apple conference thing where they were showing off this amazing new thing QUICKTIME and they had the Under the Sea scene shown at the size of a postage stamp. No idea why I was there. Same presentation showed off the amazing NEWTON!

Actually, this is the era I've seen the most of, since the Norwegian TV channel didn't show Disney movies when I was a kid and the video stores didn't have 'em either. I do recall seeing Pinocchio at a birthday party, but that's about it for the earlier movies. Great big pop cultural gap, that.

Anyhoo, here's some important additional data to aid you in your selection:

Little Mermaid = “Homer, that’s your solution to everything, to move under the sea"

The Lion King = “The circle of KNIFE”

Beauty & The Beast = "Like my loafers / Former gophers / it was that, or skin my chauffeurs / But a greyhound fur tuxedo would be best"

The only thing I remember about the Rescuers sequel aside from John Candy was Ebert's outrage over the racial coding of the villain.

xpost

The Little Mermaid definitely inspired the best Simpsons joke, yes.

i voted beauty + the beast and i'm curious if detractors (particularly doc casino) feel the same way about the original source material as they do about the film? i ask bc fairy tales in general contain all kinds of dodgy stuff

― Mordy , Wednesday, March 12, 2014 6:46 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Haven't read the fairy tale in ages but the plot outline to me seems like basically the same idea and presumably it was very 'functional' in medieval German villages: something for mother (or dad) to tell kids to explain why daddy seems to fly into violent rages, smash things, make mommy cry - and how he really is a great man and father underneath, so don't worry if the fellow we set you up to marry seems to do those same things. So... why make a movie of this in 1991, for children, again?

Bookmarking the Katzenberg letter for later viewing...

aladdin takes this because it's great and the sega game was also great

i never played the games to the lion king, littlest mermaid or beauty and the beast but they're all pretty great too tbh

special notice to the lino king for being the only disney movie where the released songs were actually better performed than the ones in the movie itself

re: B&TB - Ha, wow, shows how much I know - it's a French fairy tale, not German! Hmm. Maybe I should read more of the plot. Forgot that it has more of a class narrative to it.

the lino king

I can't remember the specifics of the Disney movie but in the fairy tale the Beast isn't angry or violent. Quite the opposite

aladdin is so fucking shit

it's like I rubbed a lamp and a galaxy of shit came out stank of shit and didn't shut up

xpost: eh, the basic idea of 'beauty and the beast' is very old and has a lot of equivalents in greek, norse, arthurian et al mythology. basically all of the stuff that ppl are objecting to (the beast's abusiveness) was added for the film and wasn't really a point in any of the original stories.

did u see aladdin wins i think if you see the disney one it's actually great just check

not falling for that one again

dammit

i just need to hustle three more rentals and i get a free swatch with robin williams voiced alarm

Yeah, based on Wiki y'all are right, the fairy tale really is a different beast altogether. Not sure I'd care for that movie much either, mind you, but for different reasons.

the voyage through the flooded town in ponyo is one of my favorite kid-adventure things ever. boats tied to the houses floating above them like balloons. the dark journey into the canopy. your hometown made strange.

many xps.

I thought B&TB was about preparing young wives for dealing with their prospective husbands' bestial sexual urges

xxxxp

how very ilxy

Like "here's like "here's a guy who's a sweet gentleman, btw he has huge hairy balls and is into anal, learn to deal with it"

xp

the cartoon "JEM" did a version of B&TB from which Disney borrowed imo

http://www.veoh.com/watch/v170555943KNX7643

Everything was pseudo-downhill after that for them, no?

Hard to choose among these, but leaning towards Beauty and the Beast for reasons other people have already mentioned:
- The Gaston song. Sometimes when I make eggs the line 'and now that I'm grown I eat five dozen eggs so I'm roughly the size of a barge' plays in my head.
- It spawned one of the greatest Simpsons parodies ever.
- It has a sort of darkness that most modern Disney films don't.
- Belle is a top notch Disney woman (hesitating to use the phrase 'princess') (she's weird and bookish and ignores the advances of men who aren't good enough for her. A+)

I have fond memories of Aladdin and the Lion King too (and their respective Sega Genesis games, as someone else mentioned, even though the levels didn't really have anything to do with the movie storylines half the time); Little Mermaid is good fun.

Does anyone else remember in the mid-90s when there was a thing around how the priest in the Little Mermaid gets a boner and the leaves in the Lion King spelled out 'sex' and the Genie told Aladdin to take off his clothes (or something)?

the cartoon "JEM" did a version of B&TB from which Disney borrowed imo

truly outrageous!

These movies are literally the most pointless thing ever.

This is from a few years ago. I knew about the Lion King ripping off Kimba The White Lion but didn't know about the extent and assholery of it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfJvKIDS9n8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1YHXnlJWI4

just tried to give the DuckTales movie a whirl since we've got a free trial of D+ to goof around with and OOF, had to bail like two minutes in as the middle eastern stereotypes piled up. maybe it gets better later but i regret throwing it a token vote here if indeed i did so.

Racial stereotypes in a Disney movie???! Oh my stars and garters

i mean this is a major beef of mine with plenty of their stuff, cf. Aladdin. just didn't know to expect it in this one, jeez.

designed lights for a junior prod of TLK opening tonight, tried to brecht it up as much as i could lol. the lionesses have a "hunting song" that ends w them bringing down an an antelope and feeding on it in a circle upstage (tossing plastic bones away etc); i hit them with a blood-red strobe and black out everything else for a few seconds before simba runs in like "hi mom!!" and lights return to normal daylight for mom turning around wiping her mouth; later when simba witnesses his father's murder it happens in the same blackout and the same strobe. more like the circle of death

and yet nothing i could think of or do could ever stand against the power of my own pale 1/1000th onstage imitation of

i did watch the opening scene of TLK on youtube recently and i wont lie it still gave me chills. you can just coast after an opening that good.

pure hi-tech propaganda. i argued for gaston upthread as most effective villain of this era (stand by this) but a huge point in scar's favor is the cut from the climactic timpani hit sealing off the monarchist ecstasy of this opening directly to scar relishing the first spoken line of both movie and show: "life's not fair, is it?"