PONO - Where Music Lives

there's a bulge in your pocket. from the PONO, that is.

bone-o amirite

can you listen to wavs on your ipod?

I listen to FLACs on my Android. It's fine.

You can listen to .WAVs on Apple devices, but they take up alot of room; FLACs which are smaller but equally good sounding aren't supported; instead Apple's proprietary Apple Lossless serves a similar function.

I still don't know who they think they're aiming this at. Casual listeners aren't gonna shell out $400 to listen to Pono on the subway, and serious audiophiles already listen to the many high-resolution digital options out there (SACD, HDTracks, etc.).

Their promo shots of the device show untagged artists on the screen. They're not doing a good job.

This was already discussed here:

Awesome Audiophile Snake Oil

So this only played Dire Straits and Bob Dylan?

Whoops, and I see Eyeball Kicks already mentioned that.

(xpost)

Neil Young is involved in this, it's aimed at his fans.

March 10, 2014 - (Burbank, CA.) - PonoMusic is a revolutionary movement conceived and founded by Neil Young. Our mission is to bring the highest-quality digital music to discerning, passionate consumers, who wish to experience music the way the artists intended, with emotion, detail and power intact. "It's about the music, real music. We want to move digital music into the 21st century and PonoMusic does exactly that. We couldn't be more excited about bringing PonoMusic to the market," said Neil Young, founder and chairman of PonoMusic.

PonoMusic and Ayre have collaborated their ideas to achieve their goal -- to make the power and majesty of music available to everybody. "We are absolutely thrilled to be a part of this project. We will always be grateful to Neil Young for changing the landscape of recorded music," said Charlie Hansen, CEO of Ayre Acoustics (www.ayre.com).

there's pretty much no way Neil Young has very good ears is the thing, he has been playing music real loud for decades

this thing would have a much better chance of succeeding if it didn't have such a stupid name

i don't want to go back to having to carry both a phone and a player in my pocket at the same time. especially if it looks a bit like a car battery

In Shakey he admitted to having sustained permanent hearing damage in 1991.

xxp

Poned!

Hey, does anybody remember CODE, the audio standard T-Bone Burnett (and iirc Neil) were pushing 5-6 years ago? Also: how weird is it that it's not Daft Punk/James Murphy types, but old dudes basically committed solely to recording 4-5 guys sawing it out live in a room that are pushing for new standards.

would make more sense if he was trying to market a portable player with "the warmth of vinyl" or something

We'll all be harking back to the 'cold clinicality' of 128kbps MP3 in a few years.

128kpbs MP3s are the lathe-cut 10"s of the future

artisanally compressed ringtones

I only listen to the original master tape in the mastering studio with the mastering engineer while the final master is being cut. Any other listening experience is fundamentally insulting to the very idea of sound itself.

there's pretty much no way Neil Young has very good ears is the thing, he has been playing music real loud for decades

The killer app aspect of the PONO player will no doubt be a volume dial that goes up to 20. You know, to make it louder.

For enough money, maybe you can convince Neil Young to come to your house and listen to your music for you, and better than you, too.

i keep on thinking this thread is about POCO

POCO ON PONO

a man can dream

BONO, ENO, AND YOKO ONO DO GOING LOCO DOWN IN ACAPULCO ON PONO

i think ppl might be a little harsh on this, from the comments in the original computeraudiophile article:

Anyone know of another portable music player with the same features for $399? I don't think the Astel and Kern has these features and it's more money?

Quote Originally Posted by The Computer Audiophile View Post
More info about Ayre's contribution to the PonoPlayer.

1) Ayre's custom designed and implemented digital filter. It is minimum phase, with no unnatural (digital sounding) pre-ringing. All sounds made always have reflections and/or echoes after the initial sound. There is no sound in nature that has any echo or reflection before the sound, which is what conventional linear-phase digital filters do. This is one reason that digital sound has a reputation for sounding "unnatural".

2) All circuitry is zero-feedback. Feedback can only correct an error after it has occurred, which means that it can never correct for all errors. By using proprietary ultra linear circuitry with wide bandwidth and low output impedance, there is no need for unnatural sounding feedback.

3) The DAC chip used is the ESS ES9018, widely recognized in the audio and engineering community as the best sounding DAC chip available today.

4) The output buffer used to drive the headphones is fully discrete so that all individual parameters and circuit values and parts quality can be fully optimized for the absolute finest sound quality. The output impedance is very low so that the Pono Player will deliver perfectly flat frequency response to any headphone made.

so basically it's a really nice digital music player with high quality components at apparently a lower price than competitive players....

i know ILX kind of hates the idea that anything can sound better than anything else, but i've recently invested in a very relatively cheap DAC for my computer/headphones and it's fucking really great in comparison to plugging into the mac headphone jack

I only listen to the original master tape in the mastering studio with the mastering engineer while the final master is being cut. Any other listening experience is fundamentally insulting to the very idea of sound itself.

the thing is, you're joking, but if you listen to the mastered final edits of a record from the tape in a mastering studio, you know for a fact that everything else is not as good & that you're hearing what you're trying to make the one and only time it's going to sound as good as it should

also please spill which DAC did you get for your laptop? if the 30 dollar one is a viable option I'm gettin' it

i got this one (129)
http://www.amazon.com/Nuforce-ICON-UDAC2-BLACK-Headphone-Amplifier-USB/dp/B003Y5FRNS

but now that they've dropped the price and also apparently improved it i'd probably get the Dragonfly if i had it to do over....it's been great but i've had a few overheating issues which kind of annoys me

http://www.amazon.com/AUDIOQUEST-DRAGONFLY-V1-2-USB-DAC/dp/B00H00VLZQ/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1394556451&sr=1-1&keywords=dragonfly+dac

or the old model is now 99

http://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-DragonFly-Digital-Converter-Version/dp/B00882U782/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1394556462&sr=1-2&keywords=dragonfly+dac

did quite a bit of research and these kept coming up

I got a Fiio E17 headphone amp just before Xmas and, yeah, it's definitely better than plugging into the headphone jack.

yeah that was another on my list, you like it alot?

xxp thanks UMS, those look very interesting

Sorry for the silly question, but what's a DAC for and why is it good and should I invest in one?

NuForce uDAC2 rec warmly seconded

Xxxp Yeah, I think it's great. It's not a revelatory difference in sound quality but it's definitely an improvement. Different enough to encourage me to get a new set of headphones a short while later (AKG K550) and together music sounds better than it ever has on my laptop.

the thing is, you're joking, but if you listen to the mastered final edits of a record from the tape in a mastering studio, you know for a fact that everything else is not as good & that you're hearing what you're trying to make the one and only time it's going to sound as good as it should

― (or if you must, "data") (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, March 11, 2014 12:42 PM (16 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I was joking, sure, and I've been on a few mastering sessions, so I definitely know what you mean. But the language used for things like Pono and other Awesome Audiophile Snake Oil can sometimes come across as accusatory and borderline insulting, like, "You like CDs?! You don't even know what music is, idiot!"

Pono makes no sense at the math level

https://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

love that quote in the footnotes: "The Sampling Theorem hasn't been invented to explain how digital audio works, it's the other way around. Digital Audio was invented from the theorem, if you don't believe the theorem then you can't believe in digital audio either!"

the thing that sucks about the audiophile industry and that rhetoric is that it's created this impression that it's all this crazy, ridiculous multi-thousand dollar thing that's not attainable for regular folks when the reality is the opposite! we're in a golden age of affordable great sound equipment....

for a few hundred you could get some great self-powered speakers by a quality manufacturer and an entry level DAC that would knock your socks off! heck for, around 1000 or 1200 you could outfit a great turntable, amp, and speakers! it's really never been easier or cheaper than it is right now and the difference might surprise you...

hell, i'm listening to $30 Monoprice headphones right now at work that would destroy expensive ones from the 80s or 90s...it's insane!

for the price of one of those sets of shithole Beats by Dr. Dre headphones you could have the first-gen Dragonfly DAC or nuForce DAC AND these Monoprice headphones and everything would sound so much better

otm

I bought one of those new NAD D3020, which has a built-in DAC as well as digital-friendly connections (the combo being relatively rare for an amp), suiting my setup, and man, it sounds great.

he said NAD

If I had two of them ...

Two NADs and a PONO.

..make a PORNO?

subway she is a pono

upper mississipi sh@kedown killin it itt, preach!!

dog latin:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital-to-analog_converter

i think there was an even more recent paper that shows that trained listeners, i.e. folks who actually know what they're listening for, can reliably tell the difference between normal and high resolution files:

http://www.stereophile.com/content/simple-everything-appears-simple

none of the candidates for presidents - not even jill stein - is talking about this! wake up people!!!

Under Construction

One of our key infrastructure partners - Omnifone - has recently been acquired by a large company. An impact of this purchase is that all Omnifone’s supply relationships are being terminated, effectively immediately. Omnifone has been the exclusive content provider for PonoMusic.

In early anticipation of this change, some time ago we began, and subsequently concluded, negotiations to move our content provision to 7 Digital, the leading independent music content/services platform. This process of transition is now well underway, but not yet complete. Please rest assured that our contractual relationships with all the major music labels remain fully intact and will transition to our new platform.

During this transition, the ponomusic.com store will be under construction and not available. Our music library will be temporarily suspended for purchases effective July 20th. We ask that you please complete any music purchases you were considering, or wish to make, by Tuesday, July 19th.

Our PonoCommunity will continue as normal and we will keep everyone up to date with our progress.

With our partners at 7 Digital, we will determine the timeframe of this transition. Right now, we believe this transition process will take several weeks to achieve. In the meantime, please stay connected to the site and the community and keep listening to and enjoying the music you have. This transition is our highest priority and will remain so until we are live again and providing our customers with seamless access to music in the highest quality available.

On a positive note, this partnership brings fresh opportunities to improve our overall service. We look forward to having new titles to offer you.

Thank you for your understanding, patience, and support.
The Ponomusic Team.

#PonoInCrisis

#Pray4Pono

Never trust any company with "omni" in its name.

Omnifone totally sounds like a made up corporation from an 80s movie

http://www.omnifone.com/sites/default/files/Hero_3_content-choosing.png

huh ol' cd baby is still going

more like cd older now

it's no The Orchard or Tunecore

i've worked for omnifone since 2004 when it was 5 people. the office closes next week. 8(

Ah sorry that sucks :-(

Pono becoming Xstream (also the name of the streaming service on Empire, so that's promising)

But the pono devices have no network capabilities, how will they stream? Or are they not part of this?

Meanwhile, BBC radio 3 is currently available as a flac stream for lossless listening...

I was behind a Tesla with the license plate PONO today. Couldn't tell if it was Neil (tinted windows) due to lack of hat or sideburns. Maybe just a diehard fan.

http://www.nme.com/news/music/neil-young-record-labels-killed-pono-2243030

Does Tidal stream in CD quality? The pono folks may have just jumped to them.

Looking forward to a concept album about this

30 minute jam with "Save the downloads, save the downloads" as a chorus

The rest of the peddle-stuff-to-audiophiles industry seems to have no problems charging 2-3x higher prices.

so anybody get one

We had one at work - we supplied the files for them - and us going out of business is what caused their website to disappear, never to return 8(

damn!

(collapse is covered a few pages back, July 2016)

Tidal streams at CD quality and it sounds really good

What’s “Qobuz”?: https://www.qobuz.com/us-en/music/streaming/offers

been curious about it sound kinda promising

https://www.techhive.com/article/3340383/qobuz-review.html

shelling out for a nicer headphone setup (with proper, separate DAC and amp and all that) caused me to convert all the lossless files i had kicking around to MP3. Cannot detect a difference. Though nice headphones rule.

We had one at work - we supplied the files for them - and us going out of business is what caused their website to disappear, never to return 8(
― koogs,

more importantly, who got the Pono koogs ?

technically i think the company that bought us out, who i can only legally refer to as "Large Technology Company", would own it as it was a company asset. but i imagine it went home in the pocket of our guy with the golden ears who did all the demos and who was let go by the liquidators a couple of months before they found a buyer.

it was nice enough and the design principles were sound, i think (the shape being what it was because that allowed for proper components and a round battery which is more efficient [citation needed]) but i remember the screen looking terrible.

(neil young visited us once, was shown through the office whilst we were sat there coding. was quite surreal. said golden ears has, i notice, a pic of him and neil as his linked-in photo)

"Large Technology Company" i guess also owns the record collection we bought and did nothing with (every chart single ever, or something. certainly there were a lot of roxette cd singles in the one box i looked at)

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/music-news/11638862/Massive-record-collection-to-be-publicly-exhibited.html

it just sat on the floor of a locked, unused office for a year or so.

(neil young visited us once, was shown through the office whilst we were sat there coding. was quite surreal. said golden ears has, i notice, a pic of him and neil as his linked-in photo)

fancy s/w office visisted by NY is indeed a visual mish mash.

oh, and that story re record collection is just, ummmm, weird.
but hey, your boss had a cool hat to wear.

Tidal streams at CD quality and it sounds really good

Checking it out now (via a trial subscription) -- seems you need to pay $20/mo. for "HiFi" (CD) quality streaming?

That said, the regular ("High") quality Tidal stream does seem to sound slightly better, when played from the desktop app thru my (not great) headphones, than Spotify & YT Music sound. Tidal's audio comes through somewhat quieter than the others, I need to adjust the volume levels to compensate, but there seems to be a little more detail? Idk, maybe it's in my head

Spotify does some level adjusting unless you tell it in settings (advanced?) not to. Also have to manually set Spotify to give you its best quality, iirc

Ah - the best quality that Spotify will let me choose w/out a subscription is "High"... I'm sure "Very High" (Premium only) sounds better. But Tidal's "High" def. beats Spotify's "High" (I just did some 1:1 comparisons).

aside from farting around myself with various services and codecs, this site for live A/B testing is handy.. http://abx.digitalfeed.net

for me it was a total crapshoot for anything over 320kbps

I've now had an opportunity to A/B Spotify at "Very High" quality (by logging in to my wife's account) and Tidal at "High" quality... and I still swear Tidal still sounds. I'm not some Hoffman Forums type; just going by my ears, using R.E.M.'s Out of Time (25th Anniversary Edition) for the test.

*still swear Tidal sounds better

That Qobuz service is going exclusively hi-res, lowering subscription price: https://variety.com/2019/biz/news/qobuz-kicks-mp3s-to-curb-hi-res-audio-1203398479/

Would be interested to do the trial and see if its catalog is even remotely comparable to the major services (especially for new releases).

I decided to do the Qobuz trial, just for kicks. It does sound good -- significantly better than YT Music (my crappy-sounding default) -- but probably not worth the extra $5/mo. over Tidal or Spotify (at least when played over my cheap bluetooth headphones).

The bass in some of these streams is actually boosted a little too much for my taste...

Ooh - there's a switch in the settings to bump up the quality to "Hi-Res 24-Bit / up to 192 kHz" (for supported recordings). Damn, that really does sound good. (You can toggle between the four settings as you play a track, to compare on the fly.)

hold the phones.. Bluetooth? surely it's using LDAC then? I've never bothered with it, but I think any other sort of Bluetooth compression is going to severely limit this lossless experiment

I mean, I can definitely hear the difference between at least the top tier and the lower ones (unless someone with real tech knowledge insists that's not possible, and I'm falling prey to severe power-of-suggestion).

I mean yeah it’s impossible for Bluetooth to reproduce that, it doesn’t have the bandwidth to even do CD quality audio, let alone 24 bit.

You probably can hear a difference though because I strongly suspect the services that offer 24bit audio EQ those streams differently to help you believe it does sound better.

Hmm... yeah, the bass doesn’t seem as jacked; highs & mids sound more clear. Maybe YouTube Music is just really crappily EQ’d(?)

MY PONONO