Rolling Metal Thread 2014

I finally got a chance to see Cynic in person on the 70k cruise. Impeccably played, but the vocals were so tone-deaf. It was unbearable. Masvidal/Reinert/DiGiorgio were spectacular playing the Death to All set, though.

I want to throw out a question but want to clarify I have not formed an opinion on it yet.

Are grown men who love Babymetal the equivalent of bronies?

The first time I heard Babymetal I thought the music was awesome. Now I find some tracks really good, but I see other things going on that seem unrelated to music, and I'm kind of put off by it and don't know if I want to allow myself to go down that metaphorical street in my mind; e.g., are these girls acting as puppets for producers/fat cats who just want to cause a stir and play to guys's strange, sinister fantasy? Or do these girls genuinely love doing this music and are writing their own tunes, choosing their own image, etc.? Does it matter?

Ugh.

Sorry if this post is crap.

Supposedly the new Cynic ain't all that metal anyways.

babymetal makes me want to fucking die

or more specifically that choco whatever, found some older thing that was just kinda novelty meh, but the playing up of the schtick on this new video idk man id rather listen to anything else in the world, even meshuggah

the purists will hate this angle is pretty funny to me, its nothing to do with purists, its completely terrible. its like going up to a hip hop dude and telling him that the reason he doesnt like the vanilla ice live album is because he is a purist not the occams razor of "or wait maybe because it is horrendous"

This was my Facebook Babymetal apologetic post:

So BABYMETAL is a thing. Japanese teen pop meets metal. In this clip, you will find three cute choreographed teenagers squealing about chocolate while a band dressed as skeletons makes like Dethklok. Oddly enough, this doesn't seem that strange to me, mainly because I fell in love with Melt-Banana almost a decade ago (when I saw them support Mr. Bungle) and since then have enjoyed the likes of Peelander-Z and TsuShiMaMiRe, all Japanese bands who have married cute Japanese pop with extreme music. Still, even being somewhat prepared for this evolution, I can't help but giggle - which sucks because giggling is NOT metal at all.

Melt-Banana does really have a lot in common with Babymetal. Like there's guitars and a Japanese girl singing.

Ommygod, so you're saying that I used the term evolution correctly then! Thanks!

Giggling is totally metal http://youtu.be/hCxo6Mmxee0?t=2m12s

ok gridlink rulez

it's weirdly refreshing and light

xp I would argue that you're using the term evolution when you mean devolution, but go nuts!

I don't know about that... One can make the case that Melt Banana to Babymetal is an evolution or a devolution. But to say there's no similarities seems incorrect.

i sure dont see any

You're right. Neither of them ever took Japanese Pop and married it with extreme music.

Or more precisely, took elements of both in much of what they do.

But hey, you like Melt Banana and hate Babymetal, so they obviously have nothing in common!

I don't get the brony comparison.

which Japanese pop acts did Melt Banana draw on in this posited melding

also

I hate Allan Holdsworth

you are dead to me

Did you mean that you hate Holdsworth or that you hate 'Holdsworth'-style soloing in death metal?

I don't get the brony comparison.

― J3ff T., Tuesday, March 11, 2014 12:28 AM (50 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Grown men (of the 'metal music' variety) enjoying the music, concerts, and a culture geared at a 14-year old audience. Babymetal's three main girls are 14 and 16 years old. How do these men relate to 'kawaii' culture or how do they reconcile their tastes with things that are so foreign to them? Because surely the majority of grown men are not into kawaii culture or cutesy Hello Kitty dolls, pencils, erasers, etc. ^_^?

that last sentence needs a rethink but is ballpark

^You're probably right. I'm not thinking about it too deeply because see my previous post.

I welcome others to take on this crumbling torch/argument and run with it.

But to say there's no similarities seems incorrect.

The similarities pale in comparison to the differences to my ears. "Extreme" music and a Japanese woman singing seem to be the sum total. But Melt-Banana aren't fundamentally a gimmick band designed to get people on Facebook to go LOL LOOKIT DIS JAPANESES ARE CRAY.

If the guitarists in Babymetal displayed any flash of the talent and imagination of Ichiro Agata I'd be impressed.

i'm hoping to like the new coffinworm

http://www.stereogum.com/1669072/stream-coffinworm-iv-i-viii/mp3s/

with that and coffin dust i am starting to put together a real solid all-coffin eoy list

I think metalhead response to Babymetal has generally been "huh; that's funny/momentarily diverting." The brony thing, from what I understand, is very different - there's actual fandom at work. I look at Babymetal from the perspective of someone who's heard a fair amount of Japanese girl-pop, from Ayumi Hamasaki and Perfume and capsule (fucking brilliant) to Kyary Pamyu Pamyu (momentarily diverting) to Ami Suzuki, Hikaru Utada and others (just OK). What I like about Japanese pop:

1) The production is frequently fantastic, the songs are catchy, the instrumentation/arrangements are all over the place but in a cool everything-is-welcome-as-long-as-it-serves-the-hook way, not in a jackass "look how many seemingly disparate elements we're combining!" way that you get with "hipper" music (I fucking hate Melt-Banana);
2) it's in Japanese, so I don't have to concern myself with the lyrics, which are no doubt as bad as those of pop music in any other language, and can focus on the way the vocal timbre works as an additional instrument

Both of these are 100% true of Babymetal. I like the combination of metallic guitars and hard techno rhythms; I like the timbre of their voices; I like the way the lead girl's somewhat ranting delivery sits atop the riffs and beats. I have pretty much zero interest in watching cute Japanese girls dance and flip their pigtails at me. I'd be happy to listen to the songs without watching the videos at all, I just haven't gotten around to downloading the album yet.

But to say there's no similarities seems incorrect.

I've been mulling over how to respond to this for the last couple of hours because I really don't want to be a dick and srsly I'm not trying to cast aspersions on you dude, but literally the only similarities i see that are functional here are the gender and ethnicity of the singer? And that's just not how I approach music

Like if you made the same comparison between the first faith no more album and oxbow because hey black dudes fronting metal tinged music I would be equally uhhhhhhhhh

Yeah, what 誤訳侮辱 said – I'm sure Babymetal have their excessive fans, but bronies are a very specific fandom that are OBSESSED with the material. It's definitely possible to enjoy MLP without being a brony – and it's totally fine to like Babymetal if you like metal. It's fun and catchy! I mean, sure it has elements of "kawaii culture," as you put it, but also it's couched in metal so that's why metalheads might be more into Babymetal than, say, Perfume (who are great and if you don't like them you are wrong).

@誤訳侮辱, I think what leaves me scratching my head is the strong kawaii element in Babymetal. I understand what you say with regard to Japanese girl pop like Kyary (the only one I've listened to out of the ones you mention), and I agree with it.

Babymetal also tries too hard to be catchy that it ends up sounding too trite for my taste; e.g., those synthy lines and danceable tunes. That whole industrialish side is interesting, though.

It does sound like I'm playing old school Dance Dance Revolution at times or whatever the Japanese version of that was.

Like I said, I'm still digesting this album. I've listened to it a few times. I initially loved it, but these thoughts! Maybe I'm thinking about it too much.

I'm not sure there's anything bigger going on on a sociological/cultural level other than the novelty of teenage Japanese girls playing J-pop metal with crazy videos.

Babymetal is way too put together and calculated, which is a turn off for me. There is nothing organic about it. its a product, verses being art. Thats what bothers me about it.

Oh, it's absolutely a product. It's J pop wearing a metal suit. But there is room for that as well. You don't have to LIKE it, but not everything has to be high art. Commando can be just as satisfying in its own way as The Conformist, you know?

It doesn't surprise or bother me that there are people who don't like BABYMETAL. Or Blood Stain Child, before them. Both are clearly playing the genre-blending for well-calculated effect, BABYMETAL even more blatantly than BSC. And I don't always like the novelty-minded combination of two things I like individually. But these totally work for me.

Again I don't care about the calculated aspect or the product push, I care about the fact that this Choco song is like banging my teeth out with a clawhammer, enjoymentwise.

did I mention the nux vomica record is the first metal release of 2014 I've heard that really knocks me over well it is so listen to that if you get a chance

or post more about babymetal I guess I can't tell you how to live yr life

y'all can post all you want but i am never watching the babymetal video. i mean just so we're clear.

well, here's what I like about j-pop. like 誤訳侮辱 said, the production is frequently top-notch, sure. and lot of it is dull too -- lots and lots of boring ballads and 48 member idol groups doing generic songs about cherry blossom season and pressing that onto 25 varieties of cd singles. but to me, the good stuff is hyper melodic and has a bright, sweet character I just really enjoy. and it helps if you already like things like ymo, old video game soundtracks, and anime, sure.

but the acts I really dig - like momoiro clover z, dempagmumi.inc., and mosaic.wav - seem so ambitious to me and I love that they (well, the first two) are still being marketed as pop acts -- as idol acts! the most commercial kind of music imaginable. and really, the way I listen to em isn't that different from the way I listen to metal. all three of those three acts often fuse wild, proggy arrangements with a power metal sense of drama, and hyper tempos that give me the same rush as good grindcore. and it's catchy too. I dunno, this stuff rules on a purely musical level.

what Alan said

For the past 20 years or so, one band has fused noisy hardcore punk with synthesized Japanese-flavored pop music like no other band in human history. That band is known as Melt-Banana... Jakob's Album Reviews

The resulting record is fierce and uncompromising, shot through with a sense of fun and a clear love of some kind of distorted, abstract vision of pop music. Japan Times

Easily recognizable by their extremely fast and energetic Grindcore music combined with elements of Nu Metal, Alternative Rock, Electronic Music (especially Harsh Noise and Industrial), Punk Rock, dance music and Japanese Pop Music... TV Tropes

If you like abrasive, dissonant music, you’ll like these guys. Besides the great music, you also have the great vocalist, who sounds like a J-Pop singer on meth. The Really Good Japanese Rock Music Guide

Since the early 1990s, Melt-Banana has been claiming that their noisy, thrashing punk is actually pop music. Treble Zine

So there's a handful of reviewers who pointed out that Melt Banana has pop music influences.

All I said was that Melt Banana combined Japanese Pop elements with extreme music. I fail to see how this is particularly controversial. Sorry if it bugs anyone that a another band who also combines Japanese Pop elements with extreme music makes music that you think sucks. Obviously they are two different bands and the extreme music that they employ is markedly different.

Anyone who thinks I am pointing this out because they are both Japanese with female vocals are wrong. I didn't mention Gallhammer (they never seemed to incorporate much of a pop influence in what they do) and I didn't mention the slew of other Japanese noise or metal bands with female vocalists because I don't hear a connection. The bands I did mention all do exactly what I said they do: combine some percentage of Japanese Pop music with some percentage of extreme music (may it be metal, punk, noise or whatever). And they do.

yeah melt banana def went (grind)pop circa teeny shiny. I don't think they sound anything like babymetal (or any metal band) and it's a stretch, but I can see where you're coming from.

not sure I would have used that tvtropes one as a case for the defence

haha

so anyway, did anybody that ordered the gridlink vinyl get theirs yet? getting pretty excited to hear this!

and those of you who have heard it - is it longer than 10mins?

it seems to be

but if you play it on repeat, it's hard to tell exactly how much longer

The new GridLink is actually 21 1/2 minutes long - almost as long as their two previous albums put together!

It's a double album, basically.

yessssss

One of you should start a Babymetal thread as I'm sure it might appeal to non-metal thread reading ilxors.