Tragic Football Stories - Let us Kick Around the misshapen Jabulani that is English football right here

With Rooney operating in the role Luis Suárez takes for Liverpool, there is an option to recreate the dynamic that has helped Sturridge into such prolific form.

Liked this idea, seems totally obvious although I hadn't given it much thought http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/10693435/Sound-of-silence-speaks-volumes-about-bawling-parents.html

When I played organised football as a kid for the school there were never any parents there beyond 2 or 3 who organised lifts and even they kept their mouths shut. Would have hated playing in front of tens of adults shouting 'encouragement'.

Linekar made a similar point recently

http://www.newstatesman.com/2013/10/pushy-parents-screaming-abuse-sidelines-are-killing-their-kids-love-football

"If we could just get them to shut the fuck up and let their children enjoy themselves, you would be staggered at the difference it would make."

this probably isn't exclusive to the uk but there is something quite indicative about the total lack of apparent enjoyment in english amateur football

when i was about 10 i went with my friend and his father to watch his elder brother playing in some youth tournament in a depressed corner of london and being confused by the grunting stakhanovite desperation of people engaged in an ostensible leisure activity, a lot of people running until they looked sick while it was lumped hither and thither, random onlookers and participants shouting at each other whenever a goal threatened

later augmented by a powellite sermon full of archaic racial pejoratives given by my friend's miserable wreck of father, a senior police officer who wasn't particularly fond of irish people but decorous enough not to dwell on it at teatime

cf

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-26543802

some of those 7 year-olds displaying more technique than the whole England squad there

THANKS PANDEMIC

but srsly,

moan about j hart there's no better

baines Johnson you'd argue for better defenders but balancing that with requirement to support attack its marginal

centre half talent isn't good

selection of no cover for those clowns was prob hodgsons only really egregious tactical error along with selection of

welbeck- limited player in awful form. rotten decision to start him.

up front/besides choosing between temperamentally questionable hiccuping second rate talents, some of whom know it and aren't even the better for this.

pick a Southampton xi next time.

you cd pick a Championship 23 that wd not have performed discernably worse

there's a wilful blindness throughout football culture in England. players whose position as superstars is established on some good performances early in their careers and are subsequently never scrutinized. the cult of the Sky-approved big dogs. the ridiculous over-imagination of how other countries think about this one, the ridiculous over-estimation of the team's space in the history of international football. the smug confidence starting Saturday evening that Uruguay and Costa Rica wd be a couple of nothing teams to be rolled over on the march thru to the next round.

yeah there are structural problems all over the place and we coach all the skill out of children and yes yadda yadda yadda but none of it will begin to change until English football fans, pundits, professionals stop fucking lying to themselves. that's the root problem. England's fucking dreaming.

Greg Dyke wasn't dreaming at the draw.

Still think Eng have v good talent in the front end of the pitch. They have no elite defenders and not much coming down the pipeline, but you could maybe patch together a borderline competent defence if they had some protection in front of them. They have zero even anywhere near elite central midfielders. NONE. And none of the young tyros coming through play there. The best might be Ox-Chamb. and I'm not sure he's ever going to play central and if he does it will be as frwd CM not deep lying.

kinda annoying that the only top performer on the night was a much vaunted EPL star tho, best if it'd been a pooh poohd nobody from an inferior league.

Thinking about CM's I guess I left out Wilshere. But who knows with that guy.

as DM? better with Livermore or Rodwell, god help ye.

the smug confidence starting Saturday evening that Uruguay and Costa Rica wd be a couple of nothing teams to be rolled over on the march thru to the next round.

Really? I think this time around there has been some realism (and this is coming down from a great height of delusion) about England's prospects of getting out of the group. There has been a lack of flags around, and any enthusiasm.

A lot of people have stopped lying to themselves..

I can't even call that a start to something, because a few other things would have to happen etc etc.

seemed to last about as long as it took for Costa Rica to beat Uruguay, which was somehow construed as a good sign for England

the realism, that is

it was a good sign for England, tbh. Uruguay are no better than average, bar Suarez. a performance anything like the first hour vs Italy might of done it, bish bosh bash six points mate and all a sudden things ain't so bad

which would be a fairer assessment of the team under absence than the two games have been, except that nobody ever really expects England to do even a decent job at tournaments these days, regardless of personnel or tactic

Will be interesting to see who they can get to manage them if Hodgson is replaced.

sherwood

They won't get rid of Hodgson.

Yeah focussing on the defenders is all well and good (and they weren't good) but it's kind of academic when teams are able to walk through England's midfield with ease.

There needs to be a centralised, co-ordinated approach to youth player development similar to one that's worked to France, Germany, even Belgium relative to where they were before. That won't happen under the laissez-faire EPL system.

We can all say 'first hour against Italy' but did anyone believe that Eng could've carried on like that? It was a big if..plus Uruguay were going to play better than they did against Costa Rica.

there is so much to criticise that i dunno where the people involved even start, they have got themselves in a never ending cycle of blame without stopping to breathe or put something right.

i wrote a bigger messy thing about this but re-reading i decided not to post it. basically the fa and the premier league need to stop being scared of modernising if they don't want to be left behind. tactically, in their selection processes for players and personnel, in trying to get bigger clubs investing in youth coaching like they are doing on the continent. roy isn't going to succeed in a world of klopps, bielsas, peps, rodgers etc. gerrards and rooneys aren't going to succeed in a world of modrics and neymars and gotzes, teaching 15 year olds how to head in a broken down shed in stoke is not going to compete with the likes of munchengladbach or bilbao or lorient trying their hardest to make their team stand out and provide technically sound players who could be worth a lot of money and maybe make the national team. football has changed a great fucking deal since the mid nineties and england or the fa or whoever are putting their fingers in their ears and shouting nananananaicanthearyou remember when sheringham and shearer whooped holland that was great lets do that again ey fellas

England can't control games, have pretty much never been able to. Okay not many teams can. It's hard. But if you look at, say, Chile although they can't always control games from a patient possession pov and probably don't want to, they can control their defensive pressure. They have a certain element of sustainability as to what the general tenets of their game plan will be. England don't really know what or who they are or what or who they should be. Forever hear players saying that they can't/don't want to be like Spain that they have to play to their strengths. But the strengths they point to are things like passion and power and pace and commitment as if all the other nations don't have this plus an idea of how they're going to play even if it ends up not working. England don't have this. Personally I think the Euro 96 team is v overrated - 3 draws, 2 wins (one against a team that rarely qualifies for the Euros) but they did have an idea of what they wanted to do and tried to do it.

I don't really agree that England doesn't still produce talented players, yes even technically talented players. Not in the number and variety they should considering the wealth of the country, league and FA admittedly, but let's not pretend that all we churn out is cloggers who can head.

You could really tell when England didn't have the ball yesterday, they were just miles off the Uruguay players at all times. Chile barely gave Spain any space, so even when they lost the ball they were able to win it back quickly. A lack of dynamism in midfield was also a problem, it wasn't set up with any real attacking dynamism in mind and Gerrard and Henderson aren't good enough at defending and reading the game to play the dual holding role.

look at Croatian midfield/attack and tell me England produce talented players again. the consistency of thought and execution of first touch in the worst of them is light years ahead of any of the most heralded English technical players IMO.

transplanted to England, the majority of them would be mistrusted le tissier figures, destined for a lifetime of lallanaesque benchings while the next pace merchant saws his hamstrings off for three years of hype and ten of abuse.

The answer is to pack up any vaguely talented 11 yr-olds and ship them off to Croatia.

pace, power, cunting ability when given space ranked as the moulding material of the trusted English youth star, notwithstanding years of proof that at tournament level you need to get the space to use that pace or to cunt it, and a lack of team rhythmic understanding or basic spatial intelligence makes it a cert that you won't.

power just means you give away frees.

yeah I've seen the croatian midfield. England produce talented players.

there's a wilful blindness throughout football culture in England. players whose position as superstars is established on some good performances early in their careers and are subsequently never scrutinized. the cult of the Sky-approved big dogs

aye I said last night there seemed to an air of "How is this happening? We play in the best league in the world!" that didn't take account of a) maybe it isn't, really and b) the best players in it are all from other countries e.g.Uruguay

hmm talented but not rounded, not functional in modern systems, skill sets based on playground games or needlessly focused on one or two aspects unbecoming an actual useful adult player cf quote about Gerrard from arrigo

i just think we have v different ideas of what makes a talented player which is fair enough

you're both right

pretty obv why ur modern day spurs fan will emphasise why talent on its own is meaningless tho

far be it from me to argue with ilx's official scout tbf

p much everyone i work with has come by my office with a concerned expression and asked me how i am doing, i guess because i took at the afternoon off to watch the game. it is nice i guess but it is difficult to articulate the complex relationship of an english football fan with the national side via the medium of small talk. for some reason i started off sort of playing up to the sympathy because it seemed expected, acknowledging the disappointment, whatever, but that wore away with repetition and eventually i was just "worthless shower, tournament is better off without them tbh".

Yeah I think England have talented players tbh. There's been a great deal of tactical ineptitude for Hodgson in this tournament

england produce talented players, one of the best five players in the world came from southampton. him and ramsey would most probably change the conversation a lot.

but there has been so much said about continental FAs working to get each team produce a level of excellence that is missing. That is why I made the dig about learning to head at Stoke. Arsenal, Utd, Palace, Southampton, Spurs, Liverpool and Everton. Maybe one or two other teams and the odd guy who will stand out wherever he would have been trained. Thats all that is providing half good options out of the leagues and leagues of training grounds and qualified coaches in England. Germany have half the teams and most probably could have selected an alternative 23 that would have had a chance of winning. Spain and France too, to a lesser extent. Whereas we are still left hoping Gerrard can do it because none of the 92 have made ONE obvious and ready successor in the past 15 years.

Im sure there is a lot that can be said about potentially good players like rodwell sinclair zaha etc. being snapped up by big clubs only to be benched for years instead of developing (and a lot of this has happened postabramovich chelsea) but barca dont play the likes tello that often or madrid morata etc. - so it only seems noticable when talent is sparce.

tello and morata haven't won any world cups yet

ok but promising players become good players by getting regular playing experience and only 23 out of thousands will win a world cup anyways so idg yr point

Arry Redknapp on the radio now - "I don't understand why England keep failing, we've got good players, we've got good managers, look at some of those other teams their players wouldn't get a game in the Premier League, I thought we'd win that group, we've got very good players, I don't understand it"

Rooney - "We don't kick people enough" http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/england/10917358/Wayne-Rooney-England-are-too-nice-to-win-World-Cup-we-need-to-develop-nastiness-in-way-we-play.html

do these fucks never learn

they don't kick ppl *properly*, its true. English yellows/reds/penalties are generally crimes of passion and not profit

The worst of Arry's remarks was "oh Costa Rica beat both Uruguay and Italy, its all you need to know about that group". This notion that Costa Rica are a good team doesn't get through. Mindless cunt.

Costa Rica lost twice to Honduras in the last year. Honduras are not a good team.

I don't think it's a stretch to say England could have had a tougher group.

From the two games I've seen they've shown a better game in the tournament itself. Uruguay and Italy have I'm sure underestimated Costa Rica, but that's their problem (its not as if both don't know they can't lose to minor teams, and they have of course done so in their long history at the wc)

Ian Wright has the answer:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bq2HpOSIMAAjQuR.jpg