sun kil moon?

Feel like doing tiny cities was a turning point for his songwriting. He's had an early modest mouse feel to his lyrics ever since. Substitute Panera bread for orange julius.

I don't really understand how anyone can assume there's "less craft" here or that he worked on the songs less or "edited" them less or "just wrote down his first thoughts" or whatever. That seems really naive and also presumptuous.

― james franco tur(oll)ing test (Hurting 2), Friday, February 28, 2014 11:54 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Well, on this one and on MK/Desertshore, some lyrics imply that the songs are extremely fresh prior to recording "James Gandolfini died at 51 that's the same age as the guy coming to play drums" (from memory).

Besides, if you compare the guitar lines and poetry to that of his work on Admiral Fell Promises, it's evident to me that he didn't "craft" these new songs as much overall.

That being said, I am in no way saying that Benji is not as good for any reason. I acknowledge it as a totally different approach and I love it.

― 4. Philip Seymour Hoffman and Bruce Berry "Eat Soup" at "Panera Bread" (3:37)

Absolutely love 'Benji'.

Long time follower of MK. Brutally honest and Grade A tune age

don't care if it's a piss take.

I always hear "bacon powder" instead of "baking powder"

thought it was an ohio home remedy

So, he was born in San Francisco but grew up in Ohio?

Grew up in Ohio but lives in San Francisco? Or maybe it was that he was born in San Francisco, grew up in Ohio then moved to San Francisco later on. Not sure.

Oh, ya. I think you're right, Evan. He was born in Ohio, but spent a lot of time in San Fran.

Yeah I'm pretty sure he's been in San Fran ever since Red House Painters began in 1992 at least.

yes, I'm not sure when he moved here but he's been here since the very early 90's.

It's nice to hear an artist taking chances like this so far along in their career. I love about half of this, but the other half is borderline unlistenable.

man i've never been a fan of this guy but i also can't think of anyone else who could pull off this material. excellent record.

You do all realise that "Perils from the Sea" is far better, yes?

No. Maybe a little better. Or maybe Benji is. Haven't made up my mind.

good lord, this is amazing

i never cared that much about red house painters and consequently never went out of my way to listen to sun kil moon.

is there no vinyl version???

final verdict: perils from the sea does way more for me than this one does, though i can still admire it and there's a couple songs that hit

If you love Benji you should really check out the Mark Kozelek/Desertshore album, as it is the direct lead up to Benji stylistically.

Benji is quite a bit better, don't you think?

Than the Desertshore collab, I mean.

Yes I do! But it's definitely the closet to Benji over the rest of his discography.

It's kind of like the "warm up" record to Benji is what I mean.

It's interesting (well, slightly) how much more "chat" the Sun Kil Moon album has generated compared to the preceding two Kozelek related albums.

It's not a side-project, it's much heavier lyrically, and I've got say though the Pfork BNM (esp with 9.2) forces new listeners to take notice (plus I have a little theory that many review sites tend to back whatever pfork backs in their own reviews)

oops didn't mean to word that so repetitively

I love the sound of the guitars on Benji. Don't know much other RHP or SKM stuff, but it's a good album. Played Micheline to my partner and she said it was one of the most affecting songs she'd ever heard, aaahhhh!

I think about this album whenever I have soup in a bread bowl

Yeah, I must check out some more of this guys stuff. I've liked what I've heard of RHP ("Michael", "New Jersey") though.

your first stop should be Ghosts of the Great Highway

I think the first two RHP albums is some of the best music I've ever heard. Third one (Bridge) and the first EP feels like part of that era though.

Benji is slaying me...I feel choked up through the whole thing and that last song is like a huge relief when you get to it

I don't ever shut up about it but I really think Admiral Fell Promises, while initially sounding extremely same-y with the nylon string only + similar song structures throughout, is probably one of his most poetic, proficient and beautiful albums. I know proficiency is not a critical aspect of good art but there is just SO much craft in his compositions on that record both musically and lyrically that Benji in comparison is far to the other side of the spectrum for him (given his playing capabilities as evidence particularly on AFP, the guitar melodies on Benji were probably as quickly written as the lyrics were and he's so good that there is nothing wrong with that).

what robert adam said. the first two albums plus the shock me ep have never been topped by mark. after that he is still great but the returns are diminishing.

"Moorestown" is one of the most heartbreaking songs I've ever heard.

There's a level of post-work weariness and drunkenness where the Streets' "A Grand Don't Come For Free" sounds like the most poignant album ever made. I thought I'd capture some of that feeling with a bottle of white, some "sour cream lentil curls" from M&S and "Benji". But I didn't.

(Big fan of Kozelek ... but somehow it just isn't doing it for me in the way you'd think it might.

On relisten, I'm...really torn on Benji. On one hand I admire that many of the arrangements take a lot more chances than basically anything else in his whole discography, which has generally switched btwn various types of restraint, even when supposedly "cutting loose." The combination of the somewhat brighter and broader sonic palette with the off-the-cuff lyrics does work some of the time, resulting in some really primally accessible music like "I Can't Live Without My Mother's Love" and "I Watched the Film..." and a couple others, as well as a couple of refreshingly breezy portraits like "Ben's My Friend" that would have been unthinkable even a couple of years ago. But it does have a tossed-off quality that backfires more than I cared to admit at first. What worries me is that it was so much better-received than Perils and Admiral, which are both better records that he might feel compelled to pull away from in terms of approach. (Then again he might decide that critics and audiences are full of shit and pull a 180 of some kind - predicting what the Koz will do at this point is folly.)

h8 this record but realistically simon h otm

If you love Benji you should really check out the Mark Kozelek/Desertshore album, as it is the direct lead up to Benji stylistically.

― Evan, Sunday, March 16, 2014 2:52 PM (5 months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Just want to add this point that I was very surprised when the writing style carried over into Benji- when MK/Desertshore came out I wasn't put off because that kind of lack of refinement was appropriate for a side project record. Like a jam session gained some momentum and suddenly they had enough songs to make a record, and lyrically Mark had an opportunity to vent about Tim Mooney and Jason Molina dying among other things in a quickly written fashion. Never expected that approach to continue into an official Sun Kil Moon release. But given the success of artist-as-character-in-back-story-infused-records like Bon Iver and Girls it's no surprise the drama of the content is carrying this beyond the success of anything else he's done even when it is also the most underwritten by miles.

he was already doing this kind of stuff on Among The Leaves

Never gotten anywhere near all the way through AtL.

no surprise the drama of the content is carrying this beyond the success of anything else he's done even when it is also the most underwritten by miles.

I must again remind everyone that he just recently did the flagrantly autobiographical thing better on Perils, which he did none of the music for. An acquired taste I guess but the combo of simple electronic accompaniment with Koz's drifting travelogues really clicks for me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7yYMfjVNJc

as I said, it's not a new development

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqV9ilyiWK4

It took Panera bread to connect with the people

Fair enough. Among the Leaves was the literal first time he changed his approach in the autobiographical way, but MK/Desertshore and Benji seem directly from a diary and entirely unedited beyond a first draft. To me they differentiate that way. AtL and Perils both have the conversational feel yet sound to me like he worked on the songs a bit more. "Young Love" for instance wouldn't even be that out of place on AFP (though I admit it isn't the best representation of AtL on the whole).

AtL literally has one that goes

Well I wrote this one and I know it ain't great
I'll probably sequence at track number 8
And pick up some water at 7/11
On my way to the mastering session

It's called Track Number 8

Plus as far as why Benji resonated more is clear- people don't emotionally connect to funny stories about touring the same way they do about the relatable accounts of family members tragically dying in their mundane hometowns between visits to mundane Panera Breads, reflections of parents much like theirs, growing up, etc.

xpost OK, OK, fair. Benji is still farther down the rabbit hole of quickly written and patched together songs though. His choice of guitar lines plays a big part as well.

I like to imagine that he laid down some really complicated and overwritten tracks before switching to chords + blue crabcakes

blue crabcakes + sports bar shit are my favourite moments on the album