sun kil moon?

http://blogs.seattletimes.com/soundposts/2014/02/22/sunkilmoonlive/

"Misreading his frustration as contempt, some showgoers started heckling Kozelek, casting a pall of negativity over a night meant to celebrate the 47-year-old artist’s current renaissance."

I wonder what specifically happened/was said.

Both on Mark's show of frustration and the resulting heckling. Curious.

Query to all: Since I don't know Kozelek, I can't vouch for the authenticity of the songs. Suppose it turned out that most every event and person referenced in these songs were fictitious. Would your esteem for Kozelek as songwriter grow or diminish? Would your opinion of the songs themselves change?

But...it seems pretty clear that the people aren't fictitious. The Carissa thing, the Jim Case thing, the existence of Ben Gibbard, these things are internet verifiable. I mean, I guess I'll just have to take his word on the experiences he lays out in Dogs and the story about the albino on the dad song, and things like that.

In any case, I never understand hypotheticals like this, questions along the line "What if this the reality of this record were something totally different? Would you like this record as much?" I see it most frequently in "If X were by a new artist, you wouldn't like it at all!" or alternately, "If a new artist had put out X, it would be called album of the year!"

In any case, I might even like the record more if the whole thing was made up

If the whole thing were made up, I would regard it as a Nabokovian tour de force instead of a Carveresque tour de force.

why would the sun kil the moon anyway?

In any case, I never understand hypotheticals like this, questions along the line "What if this the reality of this record were something totally different? Would you like this record as much?" I see it most frequently in "If X were by a new artist, you wouldn't like it at all!" or alternately, "If a new artist had put out X, it would be called album of the year!"

Well it's not necessarily equivalent to other questions like that. In this case, this record is extremely raw and sounds like the lyric/instrumental compositions weren't fussed over at all, at least compared to past efforts. So you have the striking unfiltered directness of the stories doing all of the heavy lifting. If the stories were all fiction I think there would have been more criticism regarding the comparatively unfinished/first-draft sounding compositions.

I wonder what specifically happened/was said.

― Evan, Friday, February 28, 2014 11:32 AM (38 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Both on Mark's show of frustration and the resulting heckling. Curious.

― Evan, Friday, February 28, 2014 11:33 AM (37 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

“I’m spilling my guts up here and you guys won’t shut up.”

Kozelek's use of "you guys" = further evidence for his Ohio roots

you guys

I don't see what the difference is between weaving a great song out of "true" facts and weaving a great song out of false ones.

one great song is composed of "true" facts while the other is composed of false ones.

“I’m spilling my guts up here and you guys won’t shut up.”

True, just suspecting there's more to it. The article implies tension first started between staff and Mark, then between audience and Mark, then that quote happened...

http://theabbeycatering.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/crab-cakes-cl-1665282-l.jpg

the stage was set with a table and a chair. he walked out and tucked a napkin into his shirt. he ate some blue crab cakes. he put his fork down and turned to the crowd:

“I’m spilling my guts up here and you guys won’t shut up.”

that sounds like almost every show I've seen Kozelek do w/out RHP, which is one of the reasons I don't go see him anymore. It also sounds like half the shows Eitzel used to play, but surprisingly he never acts like that (in SF anyway) anymore. It's like they've switched places.

the crowd is always loud? he is correct in yelling at them.

Nah just saw him in October and it was nothing like that. Except for the asshole who kept belting "WOOO!!" during a few songs...

xp

i saw kozelek a couple years ago w/out really knowing much about his music and he was extremely prickly from that start. sometime in the middle of the show he started monologuing about how being on the road is hard and lonely, i guess as an excuse for his mood. then someone in the audience with outstanding comic timing was like "why don't you write a song about it?"

sometimes he's not being as serious as people think, too, I suspect. like, he's acting like a dick but it doesn't mean he's really in a terrible mood. at any rate, I don't like seeing him without a band enough to bother these days. Glad I went to RHP shows when I could.

xpost @Evan

I don't think the "striking, unfiltered directness" "doing all of the heavy lifting" comes only from the lyrics. The sound of his voice and the way he's delivering these lyrics are doing as much lifting as any lyric on this record.

I mean, I'm sure there are some people who like this because it's "real," but I think a lot of people find it compelling because it's full of resonant little details, and the vocal delivery that is part conversational and part super-sincerity adds up to a pretty interesting mix.

His delivery is great yeah, but I really believe this record is being carried by the stories that are that much more moving because they're real, and that he is telling real stories with brutal honesty. Otherwise, the song-craft is way way less refined than on previous albums. But those elements work together because the whole thing sounds like him getting everything off his chest without fussing too long over how.

I understand what Evan is saying, but it can also be argued that Koz is using the kind of 'art of raw truth' and detail and confessional poetry and stuff to bring on some emotion on the listener's part. I mean, it's not as black and white as some are explaining it here.

I guess if he were just using it as an artifice, people might get offended (I don't know why, to be honest), or feel he is being too disingenuous, but I don't mind it at all.

I love the tunes for what they are. They are raw and direct. Whether the stories are real or not, he seems to want to do this to evoke specific emotions by maybe pretending the stories are true--but that is part of his art. It's like seeing a photo or a movie of someone burning, while it being just an act. I don't think less of the artist because the person wasn't really burning. I let the art piece take me for the ride it wants to take me on.

I don't really understand how anyone can assume there's "less craft" here or that he worked on the songs less or "edited" them less or "just wrote down his first thoughts" or whatever. That seems really naive and also presumptuous.

yeah. Even if the songs give a loose feel, I think they are songs from a better musician, songwriter, etc.

This album feels like Tonight's the Night if Neil just kept a more Harvest sound for that phase. And the deaths were his relatives.

Feel like doing tiny cities was a turning point for his songwriting. He's had an early modest mouse feel to his lyrics ever since. Substitute Panera bread for orange julius.

I don't really understand how anyone can assume there's "less craft" here or that he worked on the songs less or "edited" them less or "just wrote down his first thoughts" or whatever. That seems really naive and also presumptuous.

― james franco tur(oll)ing test (Hurting 2), Friday, February 28, 2014 11:54 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Well, on this one and on MK/Desertshore, some lyrics imply that the songs are extremely fresh prior to recording "James Gandolfini died at 51 that's the same age as the guy coming to play drums" (from memory).

Besides, if you compare the guitar lines and poetry to that of his work on Admiral Fell Promises, it's evident to me that he didn't "craft" these new songs as much overall.

That being said, I am in no way saying that Benji is not as good for any reason. I acknowledge it as a totally different approach and I love it.

― 4. Philip Seymour Hoffman and Bruce Berry "Eat Soup" at "Panera Bread" (3:37)

Absolutely love 'Benji'.

Long time follower of MK. Brutally honest and Grade A tune age

don't care if it's a piss take.

I always hear "bacon powder" instead of "baking powder"

thought it was an ohio home remedy

So, he was born in San Francisco but grew up in Ohio?

Grew up in Ohio but lives in San Francisco? Or maybe it was that he was born in San Francisco, grew up in Ohio then moved to San Francisco later on. Not sure.

Oh, ya. I think you're right, Evan. He was born in Ohio, but spent a lot of time in San Fran.

Yeah I'm pretty sure he's been in San Fran ever since Red House Painters began in 1992 at least.

yes, I'm not sure when he moved here but he's been here since the very early 90's.

It's nice to hear an artist taking chances like this so far along in their career. I love about half of this, but the other half is borderline unlistenable.

man i've never been a fan of this guy but i also can't think of anyone else who could pull off this material. excellent record.

You do all realise that "Perils from the Sea" is far better, yes?

No. Maybe a little better. Or maybe Benji is. Haven't made up my mind.

good lord, this is amazing

i never cared that much about red house painters and consequently never went out of my way to listen to sun kil moon.

is there no vinyl version???

final verdict: perils from the sea does way more for me than this one does, though i can still admire it and there's a couple songs that hit

If you love Benji you should really check out the Mark Kozelek/Desertshore album, as it is the direct lead up to Benji stylistically.

Benji is quite a bit better, don't you think?

Than the Desertshore collab, I mean.

Yes I do! But it's definitely the closet to Benji over the rest of his discography.

It's kind of like the "warm up" record to Benji is what I mean.