sun kil moon?

I think the distinction about whether you like this album or not as a Kozelek fan is whether you interpret this record as him trying something new vs. him not trying at all.

Indie rock fans in being confused about what "rapping" sounds like non-shocker. I mean, I can't help but immediately dismiss any praise or criticism for this record that says Mark is "rapping".

― an enormous bolus of flatulence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, February 20, 2014 4:10 PM (7 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lol

Huh, so even though I had a Red House Painters CD back in the day, somehow I never got around to checking out Sun Kil Moon. This Ghosts of the Great Highway is pretty great, isn't it?

yes it's very good. april is pretty good too, and admiral fells promises has it's good points.

I had basically never checked out this dude at all so when I got sick of having Benji on repeat I checked out Ghosts of the Great Highway, and yeah it's good. Carry Me Ohio is an earworm. Kind of struck by how different Benji is from that one and his other stuff though.

This Ghosts of the Great Highway is pretty great, isn't it?

― o. nate, Monday, February 24, 2014

if i had to make a short list of landmark rock albums of the 00s, ghosts would be on it.

Well, I've drunk enough red that "Benji" sounds incredibly touching (for all its faults).

For reasons that I can't quite fathom, I love that Ivo is acknowledged in song.

There is such a mis-match (and such a fine line) between Kozelek-the-arsehole and Kozelek-who-writes-the-most-beautiful-of-songs, isn't there?

yes, there is. what red are you pairing with Benji?

The whole thing sounds like he went with the first draft of every song. That approach works really well with the subject manner throughout the record.

I remember reading The Underpainter by Jane Urquhart and discussing how artists who paint the most beautiful and touching things are often seen as being sensitive, caring people. In reality, they are just as human as anyone else and at times far worse human beings. It's their craziness that helps them create such beauty to begin with.

I think it applies to musicians, as well.

But what do I know.

Also, some tracks off his new album really resonated with me.

Various xp's

Yes, I was giving it another listen this morning and most songs cut off abruptly. There is no 'outro', so to speak. But he does this enough to make me believe he's doing it on purpose. Almost like a musical prosody on that album.

Query to all: Since I don't know Kozelek, I can't vouch for the authenticity of the songs. Suppose it turned out that most every event and person referenced in these songs were fictitious. Would your esteem for Kozelek as songwriter grow or diminish? Would your opinion of the songs themselves change?

neither grow nor diminish, and no, my opinion would not change. I had actually had that thought - "What if it turns out he made all this shit up."

FWIW, someone linked me to a news article about the burning death of a Carissa in a small ohio township in the right region that I'm pretty sure is his cousin.

we confirmed that the Panera Bread exists if the Panera Bread exists it all must exist he ate blue crab cakes

this panera bread is my body/ this crab juice is my blood

*lifts up Panera bread to the sound of multiple overlaid nylon string guitar arpeggios*

http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/sound-check/Content?oid=18915321

"They were good people". Sort of sums up this record's themes, I feel.

http://pitchfork.com/thepitch/234-sun-kil-moon-benji-glossary/

^ made me chuckle.

note comment after stranger interview:

How in god's name have you not yet written about the absolute catastrophe of his show at the neptune? one would think he was doing a tony clifton routine.
Posted by bdrlgion on February 25, 2014 at 12:51 PM

http://blogs.seattletimes.com/soundposts/2014/02/22/sunkilmoonlive/

"Misreading his frustration as contempt, some showgoers started heckling Kozelek, casting a pall of negativity over a night meant to celebrate the 47-year-old artist’s current renaissance."

I wonder what specifically happened/was said.

Both on Mark's show of frustration and the resulting heckling. Curious.

Query to all: Since I don't know Kozelek, I can't vouch for the authenticity of the songs. Suppose it turned out that most every event and person referenced in these songs were fictitious. Would your esteem for Kozelek as songwriter grow or diminish? Would your opinion of the songs themselves change?

But...it seems pretty clear that the people aren't fictitious. The Carissa thing, the Jim Case thing, the existence of Ben Gibbard, these things are internet verifiable. I mean, I guess I'll just have to take his word on the experiences he lays out in Dogs and the story about the albino on the dad song, and things like that.

In any case, I never understand hypotheticals like this, questions along the line "What if this the reality of this record were something totally different? Would you like this record as much?" I see it most frequently in "If X were by a new artist, you wouldn't like it at all!" or alternately, "If a new artist had put out X, it would be called album of the year!"

In any case, I might even like the record more if the whole thing was made up

If the whole thing were made up, I would regard it as a Nabokovian tour de force instead of a Carveresque tour de force.

why would the sun kil the moon anyway?

In any case, I never understand hypotheticals like this, questions along the line "What if this the reality of this record were something totally different? Would you like this record as much?" I see it most frequently in "If X were by a new artist, you wouldn't like it at all!" or alternately, "If a new artist had put out X, it would be called album of the year!"

Well it's not necessarily equivalent to other questions like that. In this case, this record is extremely raw and sounds like the lyric/instrumental compositions weren't fussed over at all, at least compared to past efforts. So you have the striking unfiltered directness of the stories doing all of the heavy lifting. If the stories were all fiction I think there would have been more criticism regarding the comparatively unfinished/first-draft sounding compositions.

I wonder what specifically happened/was said.

― Evan, Friday, February 28, 2014 11:32 AM (38 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Both on Mark's show of frustration and the resulting heckling. Curious.

― Evan, Friday, February 28, 2014 11:33 AM (37 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

“I’m spilling my guts up here and you guys won’t shut up.”

Kozelek's use of "you guys" = further evidence for his Ohio roots

you guys

I don't see what the difference is between weaving a great song out of "true" facts and weaving a great song out of false ones.

one great song is composed of "true" facts while the other is composed of false ones.

“I’m spilling my guts up here and you guys won’t shut up.”

True, just suspecting there's more to it. The article implies tension first started between staff and Mark, then between audience and Mark, then that quote happened...

http://theabbeycatering.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/crab-cakes-cl-1665282-l.jpg

the stage was set with a table and a chair. he walked out and tucked a napkin into his shirt. he ate some blue crab cakes. he put his fork down and turned to the crowd:

“I’m spilling my guts up here and you guys won’t shut up.”

that sounds like almost every show I've seen Kozelek do w/out RHP, which is one of the reasons I don't go see him anymore. It also sounds like half the shows Eitzel used to play, but surprisingly he never acts like that (in SF anyway) anymore. It's like they've switched places.

the crowd is always loud? he is correct in yelling at them.

Nah just saw him in October and it was nothing like that. Except for the asshole who kept belting "WOOO!!" during a few songs...

xp

i saw kozelek a couple years ago w/out really knowing much about his music and he was extremely prickly from that start. sometime in the middle of the show he started monologuing about how being on the road is hard and lonely, i guess as an excuse for his mood. then someone in the audience with outstanding comic timing was like "why don't you write a song about it?"

sometimes he's not being as serious as people think, too, I suspect. like, he's acting like a dick but it doesn't mean he's really in a terrible mood. at any rate, I don't like seeing him without a band enough to bother these days. Glad I went to RHP shows when I could.

xpost @Evan

I don't think the "striking, unfiltered directness" "doing all of the heavy lifting" comes only from the lyrics. The sound of his voice and the way he's delivering these lyrics are doing as much lifting as any lyric on this record.

I mean, I'm sure there are some people who like this because it's "real," but I think a lot of people find it compelling because it's full of resonant little details, and the vocal delivery that is part conversational and part super-sincerity adds up to a pretty interesting mix.

His delivery is great yeah, but I really believe this record is being carried by the stories that are that much more moving because they're real, and that he is telling real stories with brutal honesty. Otherwise, the song-craft is way way less refined than on previous albums. But those elements work together because the whole thing sounds like him getting everything off his chest without fussing too long over how.

I understand what Evan is saying, but it can also be argued that Koz is using the kind of 'art of raw truth' and detail and confessional poetry and stuff to bring on some emotion on the listener's part. I mean, it's not as black and white as some are explaining it here.

I guess if he were just using it as an artifice, people might get offended (I don't know why, to be honest), or feel he is being too disingenuous, but I don't mind it at all.

I love the tunes for what they are. They are raw and direct. Whether the stories are real or not, he seems to want to do this to evoke specific emotions by maybe pretending the stories are true--but that is part of his art. It's like seeing a photo or a movie of someone burning, while it being just an act. I don't think less of the artist because the person wasn't really burning. I let the art piece take me for the ride it wants to take me on.

I don't really understand how anyone can assume there's "less craft" here or that he worked on the songs less or "edited" them less or "just wrote down his first thoughts" or whatever. That seems really naive and also presumptuous.

yeah. Even if the songs give a loose feel, I think they are songs from a better musician, songwriter, etc.

This album feels like Tonight's the Night if Neil just kept a more Harvest sound for that phase. And the deaths were his relatives.

Feel like doing tiny cities was a turning point for his songwriting. He's had an early modest mouse feel to his lyrics ever since. Substitute Panera bread for orange julius.