sun kil moon?

ah, i get it now

nels lived in SF for ages I'm surprised he doesn't know anything about him.

i also took the noodly guitar stuff after "i hate nels cline" to be parody

which would require some familiarity

I have no doubt he knows him better than he lets on, but I doubt there's any big story behind it

mark kozelek auditioned for wilco in 2004 when he was beaten in a crossroads-style guitar battle with nels cline

I just figured he was a good figurehead for muso guitarists within his relative musical universe, and also his name fits lyrics well.

It's funny to say "I'm no Nels Cline" because of the particular position Nels Cline occupies. It's better than saying "Yngwie" or something like that.

i work at it every day, and i can bake a mean pumpernickel. but i'm no panera bread.

so "Ben's My Friend" is basically kozelek's remix of "Semi-Charmed Life"

I don't mean this as an insult, but you could basically write "RILY: Eels, Soul Coughing, Everlast" about this record and it wouldn't be wrong

Indie rock fans in being confused about what "rapping" sounds like non-shocker. I mean, I can't help but immediately dismiss any praise or criticism for this record that says Mark is "rapping".

Most of the criticisms of this record are suspiciously just criticisms of the one song they actually heard (Richard Ramirez Died Today of Natural Causes)

i have heard the whole thing and i wish he would write or sing a vocal melody and would edit himself enough so that the syllables of each line didn't spill over bc it's so awkward and diaristic. i don't think this unedited linear and mundane approach really produces the novel apprehension of death or whatever that people seem to be responding to here. for instance on carissa he spends a lot of time outlining his intentions for the song (honor someone he barely knew and engage with the intricacies of her life and death), and imo the song does nothing except outline itself over and over. i'm sure that's what kozelek wants out of his own music at this point but i can't get with it. the songs are unearthly long and are powered by half-composed ideas. it's exhausting.

I think we're both victims of confirmation bias- clearly there are vocal melodies in some cases and vocal melodies are lacking in others for example. I totally agree there isn't as much craft overall and lyrically it's all first-draft-journal-entry but the approach as a whole is really doing a lot for me. Reasons why have been explained upthread better than I would right now.

i have heard the whole thing and i wish he would write or sing a vocal melody and would edit himself enough so that the syllables of each line didn't spill over bc it's so awkward and diaristic. i don't think this unedited linear and mundane approach really produces the novel apprehension of death or whatever that people seem to be responding to here. for instance on carissa he spends a lot of time outlining his intentions for the song (honor someone he barely knew and engage with the intricacies of her life and death), and imo the song does nothing except outline itself over and over. i'm sure that's what kozelek wants out of his own music at this point but i can't get with it. the songs are unearthly long and are powered by half-composed ideas. it's exhausting.

― emo canon in twee major (BradNelson), Thursday, February 20, 2014 4:28 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I don't understand what you mean by "sing a vocal melody" -- how are the vocal melodies of these songs not "vocal melodies"? I realize some songs, like Carissa, are more "talky" but otoh there's "I Can't Live Without My Mother's Love" or "Micheline." As for "editing" himself, I just think you are mistaking artless style for artlessness, because if you listen to the songs enough they seem pretty well thought out individually and as an album.

I can't really argue with you about Carissa because the things you don't like about it are part of what I like about it. But I do think you're missing some of what's going on in the song, in that (1) the song is very much about why he wants to go back to Ohio and go to the funeral and find out more about Carissa and narrated at the point when he hasn't done so yet, and (2) there are some subtle details about her that tell you a lot, like the fact that she got pregnant at 15 and was an RN at 35 -- a wild child who managed to turn her life around as a (presumably) single parent.

Which Soul Coughing album sounded like this? Must be El Oso b/c I never heard that one.

that could be it--el oso is from 98 which is right about when panera bread began their national expansion from their humble beginnings as a st louis-area bakery chain so that checks out (SOURCE: WIKIPEDIA)

"El Oso" is spanish for "The Bread Bowl"

I think the distinction about whether you like this album or not as a Kozelek fan is whether you interpret this record as him trying something new vs. him not trying at all.

Indie rock fans in being confused about what "rapping" sounds like non-shocker. I mean, I can't help but immediately dismiss any praise or criticism for this record that says Mark is "rapping".

― an enormous bolus of flatulence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, February 20, 2014 4:10 PM (7 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lol

Huh, so even though I had a Red House Painters CD back in the day, somehow I never got around to checking out Sun Kil Moon. This Ghosts of the Great Highway is pretty great, isn't it?

yes it's very good. april is pretty good too, and admiral fells promises has it's good points.

I had basically never checked out this dude at all so when I got sick of having Benji on repeat I checked out Ghosts of the Great Highway, and yeah it's good. Carry Me Ohio is an earworm. Kind of struck by how different Benji is from that one and his other stuff though.

This Ghosts of the Great Highway is pretty great, isn't it?

― o. nate, Monday, February 24, 2014

if i had to make a short list of landmark rock albums of the 00s, ghosts would be on it.

Well, I've drunk enough red that "Benji" sounds incredibly touching (for all its faults).

For reasons that I can't quite fathom, I love that Ivo is acknowledged in song.

There is such a mis-match (and such a fine line) between Kozelek-the-arsehole and Kozelek-who-writes-the-most-beautiful-of-songs, isn't there?

yes, there is. what red are you pairing with Benji?

The whole thing sounds like he went with the first draft of every song. That approach works really well with the subject manner throughout the record.

I remember reading The Underpainter by Jane Urquhart and discussing how artists who paint the most beautiful and touching things are often seen as being sensitive, caring people. In reality, they are just as human as anyone else and at times far worse human beings. It's their craziness that helps them create such beauty to begin with.

I think it applies to musicians, as well.

But what do I know.

Also, some tracks off his new album really resonated with me.

Various xp's

Yes, I was giving it another listen this morning and most songs cut off abruptly. There is no 'outro', so to speak. But he does this enough to make me believe he's doing it on purpose. Almost like a musical prosody on that album.

Query to all: Since I don't know Kozelek, I can't vouch for the authenticity of the songs. Suppose it turned out that most every event and person referenced in these songs were fictitious. Would your esteem for Kozelek as songwriter grow or diminish? Would your opinion of the songs themselves change?

neither grow nor diminish, and no, my opinion would not change. I had actually had that thought - "What if it turns out he made all this shit up."

FWIW, someone linked me to a news article about the burning death of a Carissa in a small ohio township in the right region that I'm pretty sure is his cousin.

we confirmed that the Panera Bread exists if the Panera Bread exists it all must exist he ate blue crab cakes

this panera bread is my body/ this crab juice is my blood

*lifts up Panera bread to the sound of multiple overlaid nylon string guitar arpeggios*

http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/sound-check/Content?oid=18915321

"They were good people". Sort of sums up this record's themes, I feel.

http://pitchfork.com/thepitch/234-sun-kil-moon-benji-glossary/

^ made me chuckle.

note comment after stranger interview:

How in god's name have you not yet written about the absolute catastrophe of his show at the neptune? one would think he was doing a tony clifton routine.
Posted by bdrlgion on February 25, 2014 at 12:51 PM

http://blogs.seattletimes.com/soundposts/2014/02/22/sunkilmoonlive/

"Misreading his frustration as contempt, some showgoers started heckling Kozelek, casting a pall of negativity over a night meant to celebrate the 47-year-old artist’s current renaissance."

I wonder what specifically happened/was said.

Both on Mark's show of frustration and the resulting heckling. Curious.

Query to all: Since I don't know Kozelek, I can't vouch for the authenticity of the songs. Suppose it turned out that most every event and person referenced in these songs were fictitious. Would your esteem for Kozelek as songwriter grow or diminish? Would your opinion of the songs themselves change?

But...it seems pretty clear that the people aren't fictitious. The Carissa thing, the Jim Case thing, the existence of Ben Gibbard, these things are internet verifiable. I mean, I guess I'll just have to take his word on the experiences he lays out in Dogs and the story about the albino on the dad song, and things like that.

In any case, I never understand hypotheticals like this, questions along the line "What if this the reality of this record were something totally different? Would you like this record as much?" I see it most frequently in "If X were by a new artist, you wouldn't like it at all!" or alternately, "If a new artist had put out X, it would be called album of the year!"

In any case, I might even like the record more if the whole thing was made up

If the whole thing were made up, I would regard it as a Nabokovian tour de force instead of a Carveresque tour de force.

why would the sun kil the moon anyway?

In any case, I never understand hypotheticals like this, questions along the line "What if this the reality of this record were something totally different? Would you like this record as much?" I see it most frequently in "If X were by a new artist, you wouldn't like it at all!" or alternately, "If a new artist had put out X, it would be called album of the year!"

Well it's not necessarily equivalent to other questions like that. In this case, this record is extremely raw and sounds like the lyric/instrumental compositions weren't fussed over at all, at least compared to past efforts. So you have the striking unfiltered directness of the stories doing all of the heavy lifting. If the stories were all fiction I think there would have been more criticism regarding the comparatively unfinished/first-draft sounding compositions.

I wonder what specifically happened/was said.

― Evan, Friday, February 28, 2014 11:32 AM (38 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Both on Mark's show of frustration and the resulting heckling. Curious.

― Evan, Friday, February 28, 2014 11:33 AM (37 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

“I’m spilling my guts up here and you guys won’t shut up.”

Kozelek's use of "you guys" = further evidence for his Ohio roots