Radiohead - Kid A / Amnesiac Poll

^^^ listen to this brad

I am surprised by all of the negativity around "Knives Out" upthread, I can't think of a single bad thing to say about that song.

Yeah it's the OKC b-sides like Melatonin and A Reminder which preceded this era and stopped Kid A feeling like such a huge jump into the unknown. It's kind of cool that in retrospect the b-sides can be seen as experiments that point to the future rather than throwaway lesser-songs that weren't considered good enough for the album.

I felt like they'd made Knives Out already. Always equated it as being part two of another song (Karma Police?). BTW Karma Police is probably my second or third favourite Radiohead song. Did we ever do a Radiohead tracks poll?

I felt like they'd made Knives Out already.

The chord structure and texture are somewhat similar to the first section of Paranoid Android.

Yeah, probably that.

It was weird seeing its rep change from self-indulgent misfire to decade-defining classic, although to me it's always been somewhere in the middle

That process you describe isn't its reputation changing though, since the initial consensus from the print titles (dud) remained. There are still plenty of people who (rightly, in my view) view it as a self-indulgent misfire. FWIW I would say that your description of "a serious, forward-thinking, gloomy-yet-comforting rock record" actually fits OK Computer much better than it fits Kid A.

i find OKC harsh and grating now

og morning bell

Yeah this song is really, really amazing

pyramid song easy

Did we ever do a Radiohead tracks poll?

I'm due to run one in about 10 polls time.

Voted for Knives Out here.

Really looking forward to that nate.

This was their peak for me. Particularly impressive was how the songs gained strength live; previously, ('97-'98) they were too concerned with matching the studio arrangements to really dig in. But on the '01 show I saw was brilliant; they loosened up, and everything swung mightily.

Voted "The National Anthem" for a number of reasons, but particularly for its distinctly Bill Dixon-esque trumpet solo.

I like "Everything in it's right place" best, because if I hear it, it's because I just put on Kid A to listen to

Pyramid Song

The Airbag EP (on which Meeting In The Aisle & all the pre-KidA b-sides were gathered) is still one of my favourite Radiohead releases.

Also, I love the deliberate "we're going to go away and do something else for a while" sequencing of Kid A, now, though at the time it was quite perplexing.

I was 17 years old and at college studying music when Kid A came out, and I distinctly remember the album being one of the most eagerly awaited releases of that year, if not the most eagerly awaited. On the day of release, I remember pretty much everyone including my tutors were waiting for lunchtime to arrive, so they could dash into town to pick up a copy. My first memory of hearing Kid A was in the room at college where the stereo was. Our tutor has came back with a copy from the nearest record store fairly quickly, and there must have been about 4 or 5 of us in total sat in this room desperate to hear what the album sounded like. Many others decided to stay out of earshot, because they wanted to prolong the excitement by waiting until they got home to play their copies.

I remember the reaction to Kid A being extremely mixed, with a wide variety of differing opinions. Our Recording Techniques tutor was a Warp Records fan, and loved it. On the other end of the spectrum, I remember one of my classmates, a U2/Muse/Smashing Pumpkins fan, absolutely loathed the record and found very little to enjoy. His reaction was "there's hardly any guitars on it, and not many 'proper' songs and the ones that are 'proper' songs aren't as good as the ones they've put out before", and I remember 'Treefingers' in particular being singled out for a lot of criticism ("it doesn't do anything, it's not even a song, it doesn't go anywhere").

For me, I didn't really have a problem with Kid A... I was going through a big prog rock phase at the time, and I'd kinda grown up on stuff like Kraftwerk and '80s synthpop, so I really didn't have a problem with the approach that Radiohead went for. I definitely wasn't scratching my head and cursing the band for "turning their back on rock" or anything, like a lot of people seemed to be doing at the time. I guess that during the Britpop era, the guitar was seen as having a stamp of authenticity to it ("Real rock, real music"), and I still think there was still a fair amount of this kind of attitude in the air when Kid A first hit the shelves.

Now, I'll be the first to admit that even with all this in mind, Kid A was not an immediate album for me. The album eventually clicked over the course of a few nights where I made it my bedtime listening album. Every night, I'd go to bed, turn of all the light, whack the headphones on, try not to analyse what was going on and just soak myself in the sound of it. Eventually, it clicked into place.

I'm reading a lot about the song sequencing of Kid A in this thread and how it may have been a barrier to people "gaining access" (for want of a better term) to the album. I definitely agree that putting the title track as the second song wasn't the greatest move (it's probably one of the least accessible tracks on the album and placing it as a second track does kill the momentum), and the fact that they backloaded the album with all of the more accessible tracks and frontloaded it with the more "challenging" ones might have been a barrier for some. However, I can't really think of any other way it possibly could have been sequenced. I've tried, over the years, as have many Radiohead fans, to sequence this album using a combo of Kid A and Amnesiac tracks and the album just loses a part of its identity as a result. Weird.

His reaction was "there's hardly any guitars on it, and not many 'proper' songs and the ones that are 'proper' songs aren't as good as the ones they've put out before", and I remember 'Treefingers' in particular being singled out for a lot of criticism ("it doesn't do anything, it's not even a song, it doesn't go anywhere").

Did he write for NME, Melody Maker, Q, Mojo or Select? Because that was definitely the vibe.

I do remember feeling like the guitar songs were overpraised because they were something to cling on to, and they're fine, but they pale next to Idioteque or Everything.

Also, prior to Kid A there'd been a few mid '90s bands that were using Pro Tools and samplers and trying to do something else to get out of Britpop/Britrock straitjacket: Blur had 13, which in spite of having hit singles, perplexed many, there was Mansun with Six, Super Furry Animals had made Guerrilla which was the most 'electronic' record they'd made up to that point... hell, even Suede had a go at branching out with Head Music. But still with even all of those albums in mind, I don't think many people were prepared for Kid A. I think most people were expecting them to take the template of OK Computer and do a New Jersey.

The OK Computer B-sides were more in keeping with that late 90s trend: dance remixes, trip hop influences, etc. Nobody else made a record as opaque as Kid A. Even 13 had Coffee & TV, Tender and the whole break-up narrative. I think Yorke's decision to stop writing obviously coherent lyrics was as bold (and, to some, alienating) as what they did musically.

I do remember feeling like the guitar songs were overpraised because they were something to cling on to, and they're fine, but they pale next to Idioteque or Everything.

― What is wrong with songs? Absolutely nothing. Songs are great. (DL), Thursday, February 13, 2014 9:01 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I have a memory of several people doing a u-turn on Kid A when the video to 'Idioteque' was being broadcast on MTV2, and people saw them performing the track live as a band. All of a sudden people were saying "hang on, this song may not be a guitar song but it's a good Radiohead song".

Then there was the other group of people, the ones who were holding out hope that Kid A was the "experimental" record and that Amnesiac would be the return of the Radiohead of The Bends and OK Computer. When this didn't prove to be the case, those who weren't thrilled with Radiohead's new sound knew that this is the direction in which the band would be going and jumped ship entirely.

I think Yorke's decision to stop writing obviously coherent lyrics was as bold (and, to some, alienating) as what they did musically.

― What is wrong with songs? Absolutely nothing. Songs are great. (DL), Thursday, February 13, 2014 9:10 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yes, I truly agree with this. One of my first impressions of the album was "wow, these songs don't really have many lyrics to them". On OK Computer you had lyrics like 'Subterranean Homesick Alien', which is very much a "story" lyric. Kid A's lyrics (with the exception of 'Optimistic') are far more minimal, especially on tracks like 'Everything In Its Right Place' and 'The National Anthem'. The upshot of this approach, is that while there's a basic framework there, the listener is left to fill in the blanks.

By this I mean: is 'Everything In Its Right Place' about OCD? Is it about feeling great knowing that a shit day is behind you? Is it about sudden clarity of the mind after a period of uncertainty and muddled thinking? I suppose it depends on who is listening, and the mindset of the person listening.

I remember Kid A being the first album where I noticed that lots of people had listened to the leaked album before it was actually released.

yeah it's kinda simultaneously the last big pre-napster album and the first big post-napster album. i can remember wuxtry had a promo they would play and ppl would just hang out there listening to it, one of the last big midnight releases i can remember also. it's weird the different reactions - in the states it seems like it was embraced pretty much immediately, the only notable critical pocket of resistance i can remember was fucking hornby in the nyer (i remember sasha frere jones making fun of either this or amnesiac in some review, maybe spin?, but it was more from a 'lol these lyrics are terrible' than a 'why so difficult? why not play proper songs???' angle). hugely popular album that autumn, it and stankonia were nearly unavoidable.

Treefingers or hunting bears

Everything in it's right place

I remember 'Hunting Bears' getting a lot of scorn at the time too: "why is this great band who write great songs and have great interplay between three guitarists putting out a slight track that consists of one guitarist doodling on riff they could have written in their sleep backed with someone pissing about on a keyboard?"

Which reminds me of another criticism that some people had of Kid A and Amnesiac at the time: people were actually genuinely confused as to what certain band members were doing on certain tracks, and because they couldn't hear the whole band playing at once with their usual instruments on every track, it somehow made the music seem a bit inauthentic to them. Like "how can this possibly be called a Radiohead record? Where's the actual band at?" ... For some, it took until they actually saw the band performing the tracks live until they "got it", and weirdly I noticed The King Of Limbs had the same effect for some people.

Again, I think it comes back to this idea of guitar music having "authenticity" that was still a little bit in the air after Britpop.

hunting bears sounds like a computer trying to recreate the dead man soundtrack or something.

weirdly I noticed The King Of Limbs had the same effect for some people.

I much prefer the live versions of songs from KoL! I think they dropped the ball a bit production wise on that one, it's mainly a bit flat and listless. Bloom for example kind of drifts by inocuously on record, whereas live takes sound like the universe forming (particuarly the mighty From the Basement reading).

i agree, i was a bit let down by the record after having seen live clips + the live at abbey road thing

Then there was the other group of people, the ones who were holding out hope that Kid A was the "experimental" record and that Amnesiac would be the return of the Radiohead of The Bends and OK Computer. When this didn't prove to be the case, those who weren't thrilled with Radiohead's new sound knew that this is the direction in which the band would be going and jumped ship entirely.

I remember reading lazy* reviews that actually claimed that Amnesiac was a welcome return to more traditional guitar-based music after the crazed experimentation of Kid A.

*lazy, in as much as they obviously couldn't have been bothered to listen to it before writing the review

maybe they just heard "Knives Out" and made assumptions

The biggest grower for me, of all the tracks in this poll, was 'Dollars and Cents'. Took some time to get its claws in me, that one. At first, I just thought/felt it was just a kind of tarted-up studio jam they'd rescued from the bottom of the pile of stuff they'd amassed during the Kid A/Amnesiac sessions, but over time I just gradually found myself getting more and more drawn into it.

Yeah I love that one. The non album single 'These Are My Twisted Words' reminds me of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2ztWvuyXeU

the press during kid a had emphasized they'd recorded two albums during the sessions and the next one would be much more guitar focused (true enough) and friendly, the listen w/o prejudice vol 2 to kid a's listen w/o prejudice vol 1. that they would be making a video was a big deal also so it was pretty funny that when the video came out that radiohead's big 'you wanted a hit, well here's yr hit' was this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2VzLn6DMCE

the press during kid a had emphasized they'd recorded two albums during the sessions and the next one would be much more guitar focused (true enough)

Well, maybe a touch more guitar-focused... I mean the first three tracks on Amnesiac are an electropop song, a seasick piano ballad and four minutes of pounding beats and Thom talking about doors!

I mean, sure, 'Knives Out' is on there and 'You and Whose Army?', but those looking for the next 'No Surprises' or 'High and Dry' were pretty much going "this isn't what I was hoping for, this is just more Kid A" upon listening to the first couple of tracks of Amnesiac.

The first time I heard Kid A I thought my copy was deffective. Asides from Optimistic it didn't sound anything like them, it was very alienating. I forced myself to like the record with blunt repetition and suddenly around the 9th listen everything clicked in. It's one of the most satisfying album experiences I've had. Granted I was young and impressionable but I'm still amazed at how well it has aged, at least to my ears. OKC sounds very dated nowadays, i think kid a will still sound 'new' 10 years from now. The combination of sounds and influences makes it sound very different, it's also a hard style to copy so unlike OKC there's nothing quite like it.
Anyhoo here's how I rate them:

Unfuckwithable

Everything In Its Right Place
Kid A
The National Anthem
How To Disappear Completely
In Limbo
Idioteque
Morning Bell
Packt Like Sardines In A Crushd Tin Box
Pyramid Song
Pulk/Pull Revolving Doors
I Might Be Wrong
Life In A Glasshouse

50/50
Optimistic
Motion Picture Soundtrack
You and Whose Army?
Dollars and Cents

Meh / the b-sides are way better

Treefingers
Pulk/Pull Revolving Doors
Knives Out
Morning Bell/Amnesiac
Hunting Bears
Like Spinning Plates

don't forget the sub self-parody/coldplay-esque/commercial-stab/relegated-to-bside track category

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPz2mBKlMWE

First time I heard Kid A, I thought my copy was defective. I took it back and exchanged it for another copy. It was.

True.

kid a the first radjohead i dug, still my favorite, closely followed by amnesiac. everything in its right place.

Then there was the other group of people, the ones who were holding out hope that Kid A was the "experimental" record and that Amnesiac would be the return of the Radiohead of The Bends and OK Computer. When this didn't prove to be the case, those who weren't thrilled with Radiohead's new sound knew that this is the direction in which the band would be going and jumped ship entirely

I was in this group.

Even when HTTF came out I remember some reviews going, "Seriously guys? Still with the weird shit?" Because There There and 2+2=5 seemed to promise "back to rock" (as did some of their interviews iirc) and of course it wasn't.

I think Yorke's rep in the UK press had a lot to do with it as well. The subtext of a lot of the early reviews was that Yorke was being an asshole by refusing to be a rock star, which seems silly now.

They were confused because Yorke was being more of a Rock Star than they could ever conceive of being - which is why he gets to be a rock star and they're... critics.

haha otm

its like...slight of frame depresso plays by his own rules and sticks to bleep bloops. what are ya gonna do, old man? *chucks guitar into trash heap*

What's HTTF?

I wonder how the 00's alt/rock/indie landscape would have been affected if Kid A/Amnesiac had never existed or if Radiohead had gone down a more traditional route?