Suede

i've posted this half hour Pete Pahpides-narrated BBC docu elsewhere but really it's amazing. it's from a series called Follow Up Albums on Radio 4.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01j6srs

You know, I can understand why they cut off the outro section for 'The Wild Ones', but at the same time I have a real fondness for the unedited version.

yeah me too it's fuckin great innit. i'm glad they cut Asphalt World in half mind. even that goes on forever. IMO.

Hum. That's one of the cases where I agree with brett's pop sensibility. Bernard's instrumental parts are not so good and necessary on the extended/original version of "wild ones". Which is funny because it might be his best guitar parts otherwise !

OK, I've just scanned in the DMS pages from the vinyl box set book that I mentioned. Kind of tricky because it's the size of a record and my scanner is just A4, but I managed. Here it is for those interested:

Part 1: http://imgur.com/cFtqCZg
Part 2: http://imgur.com/D1sE9oy
Part 3: http://imgur.com/2RQHm8O
Part 4: http://imgur.com/YA3KhxC
Part 5: http://imgur.com/ggPuEdn
Part 6: http://imgur.com/qy9nxLM
Part 7: http://imgur.com/X9faPDM
Part 8: http://imgur.com/QiP3V0S

I'm still impressed that they released this crazy album, being one of the hottest bands on the planet at the time, as a follow up to their smash hit debut album. so gutsy (or suicidal) !
I guess MGMT did something similar (although I've never heard their 2nd album). are there other examples ?

― AlXTC from Paris

Beauty Stab is always a good answer to this question.

amazing work EK, gonna rifle thru those now

Great stuff.

Oh yeah, that reminds me: where was everyone's votes for Bloodsports in the EOY poll!?

Thanks for uploading that Eyeball Kicks. Very interesting to read through it all.

Oh and Turrican, I had Bloodsports in my top 10. I did my best.

Really regretting not getting that vinyl box set now as it seems to have sold out everywhere. I bought those deluxe editions already and couldn't really justify getting these too, even though I'm much more into vinyl these days.

It's really nice. I think all of the albums (including Sci-fi Lullabies) are getting released separately on vinyl on February 17, though, if you want to pick any of them up. They're all on Amazon now.

Nice. That means I can skip Head Music and A New Morning and just get the good albums. Actually I do still like some of Head Music but don't see myself shelling out the money for it on vinyl.

oh wow, thanks Eyeball Kicks !

thanks Eyeball Kicks these are great.

Yeah thanks Eyeball, those make great reading. Would never have picked up on the Neil Young influence in 'We Are the Pigs' but I can totally hear Crazy Horse in the verses now.

yup, it's fantastic to have an insight into the making of DMS. I'd never heard about many of these.
it's funny how bernard is focused on the relationship with simon.
and regarding "power" I was right about the guitars not being what bernard would have done !

Man, have I been on a serious Suede kick for the last couple of days! They're that kind of band, aren't they? One you don't listen to for ages, and then just wanna binge on everything they've ever done.

It's pretty well known that Simon and Bernard didn't really get on well, especially during the Dog Man Star era.

Man, have I been on a serious Suede kick for the last couple of days! They're that kind of band, aren't they? One you don't listen to for ages, and then just wanna binge on everything they've ever done.

― Toni Braxton-Hicks (Turrican)

Think I'm about to have one of those Suede binges myself. Might not quite go through ever thing (finally threw out my copy of A New Morning last year) but going to through all the good albums and B-sides very soon. Love this band.

As much as I don't rate Head Music or A New Morning as highly as the first three, Bloodsports and Sci-Fi Lullabies (the first disc of which is out-and-out amazing and might even be my favourite collection of Suede songs ever), I don't think I could ever bring myself to part with them. I still have more than a fondness for tracks like 'Obsessions', for example!

Jesus christ, 'It Starts and Ends With You' is like 10% verse and 90% chorus!

Head Music vastly underrated, imho. The third-best Suede record.

Head Music > Bloodsports

Bloodsports has a shrieking, thin mix but the songs are marvels.

I think I prefer them trying new things (that often didn't work) on HM vs them playing to the gallery on B.
Kind of Beauty Stab vs Alphabet City.

Bloodsports doesn't really have any songs I ever want to skip. Head Music could do with losing three or four songs.

Bloodsports is very close to replacing Coming Up as my third favourite (real) Suede album these days.

Dog Man Star
Sci-Fi Lullabies
Suede
Coming Up
Bloodsports
Head Music
A New Morning (Obsessions, You Belong to me and Oceans are the only keepers on here)

"it starts and end" is the only song that grabbed my attention on "bloodsports". it's nice but not great, though.
I really liked "head music" at the time but, like "coming up" I never feel like listening to it again.
for me it's bernard era only, now, basically !
it's funny because with some imagination, I can sort of imagine the tears album could have been the follow up to DMS instead of "coming up".
it still has the dark and epic stuff but with some lighter and even groovier stuff !

I firmly believe that the first three tracks on Bloodsports are up there with some of Suede's best... and man, that breakdown on 'Always' is just sublime.

I was re-watching the paris concert on the DMS remaster and god the quality of the film is awful ! how could they not find another concert film with a better picture quality !!?? it's criminal to release something like that... it also reminds me that I couldn't go to that concert at the time and that also pisses me off !
anyway, there's a very weird part on "we are the pigs", before the guitar solos. anyone has any idea about that ?

The sound of the hi-hats throughout Bloodsports is just fucking inexcusable. And has anybody listened to the b-sides "Darkest Days" and "Human Tide?" They're leagues worse than the album itself!

I can't believe these mixes made it out of the studio. I know it's been discussed upthread, but this is simply one of the worst sounding modern releases I've ever heard. A shame, because otherwise it's a corker.

Agree with you about the hi-hats etc. I did most of the moaning about this kind of stuff upthread.

I've just listened to these b-sides you mention. I don't understand what you mean by "leagues worse than the album" - aren't b-sides supposed to be worse? Anyway, you're being very harsh. "Darkest Days" is really quite good and the other one just sounds like... a b-side. Not a big crime.

I meant the mixes! I actually really love both of those songs (I'd even switch out an album track or two for them)... I mean, the mixes somehow manage to be even worse than the album mixes... just completely, bafflingly bad.

Listening on headphones right now... like, when the chorus of "Darkest Days" kicks in, it's like my ears are being swarmed by thousands of bees made of digital ice.

Does anyone own the vinyl of Bloodsports? Wondered if that sounds any better. The only big problem I have are those crackles on What Are You Not Telling Me which spoil a really beautiful moment.

did you plan to upload the debut album interviews from that vinyl box set Eyeball? some fascinating stuff in the DMS bits. i mean i'm sure you've got better things to do like...

Does anyone own the vinyl of Bloodsports? Wondered if that sounds any better. The only big problem I have are those crackles on What Are You Not Telling Me which spoil a really beautiful moment.

Hadn't got round to Bloodsports, but just had a listen to tracks 8 & 10 and they're exactly the same. I'd heard that the original vinyl had the problems anyway, and it looks like the version of Bloodsports in the box set is that same pressing - it's the only album not on 180g and it has Warner Brothers on the label rather than Edsel Records.

The mastering for Bloodsports was done by a guy called Howie Weinberg, who's notorious for this kind of thing. He's done loads of big-name alt-rcok records going back to Nevermind at least and is proud to be perhaps the main antagonist in the loudness wars. It's only after Bloodsports that I've really paid attention to him, but since then I've noticed this crackling on loads of records he mastered (e.g. Stories From the City, Story From the Sea). I doubt they would have got someone like him in to do their b-sides though - maybe he left some presets behind.

Piscex, wasn't planning to upload more of those interviews, and won't be doing so today, but maybe I'll see how it goes using a camera to get the whole book. Watch this space.

good man! i appreciate it.

Can't blame Howie Weinberg, he's mastered literally hundreds of records, for decades, everything from "Licensed to Ill" to Jeff Buckley, and they hardly all sound like shit. Dudes like him and Bob Ludwig ain't exactly auteurs. If I had to lay blame, and say first in line is 1) the band and then second is 2) Ed Buller, neither of whom made the best sounding records in their prime.

Yeah, I don't have a problem with the production/mix on Bloodsports really, but I'll definitely agree that the album is mastered way too hot. The mastering level has been pushed up so much that it does feel incredibly distorted in places. However, that's really the only major flaw that I can find with the album.

Weinberg and Ludwig aren't exactly mastering novices, but they do tend to master records with the "requirements" of the time. Weinberg's mastering of Super Furry Animals' Guerrilla from 1999, for example, is absolutely spot on. I guess the trend is to master records at a stupidly hot level these days, and Bloodsports doesn't buck the trend.

However, the band and Buller should take some of the blame, as they probably were in a position to hear the results of the mastering and OK/veto it.

In truth, shitty mastering is my biggest barrier into getting into contemporary records these days. Albums were mastered loud enough in the '90s, and I didn't have much of a problem with those, but it seems like the mastering levels have gone BEYOND that... especially from the mid '00s onwards!

You all need to listen to the most recent Phoenix record to hear an example of what a brick wall really sounds like.

Yeah, the newest Suede and Phoenix albums are tied for the most unlistenable mastering in recent history award.

You all need to listen to the most recent Phoenix record to hear an example of what a brick wall really sounds like.

― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, February 13, 2014 8:38 PM (54 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Death Magnetic and Vapour Trails bad? Or worse!?

Death Magnetic I've never heard. Vapour Trails I've not listened to in years, so can't say. But the Phoenix hurt my ears I turned it off. Bloodsports hasn't hurt me the same way, but then, like I said, I don't think the first Suede album or DMS are sterling audiophile works, so my expectations were not for some sort of Steely Dan slickery.

i literally couldn't stand to listen beyond 3 tracks of the new album. i hate where his voice sits, the shrillness, the shininess, everything. i'm sure the songs are maybe better live but.. urgh.

I'd thought the problem with 'Bloodsports' was as much in the mix as the master, but I'm no expert.

I'll agree on the Phoenix album. It's actually given me a small headache listening to it, completely off-putting mastering job.

another recently unearthed, needlessly tense very early 90s Suede interview. christ knows what show it is (MTV Europe?) but Toyah hosts!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZG5nhykpzGc

production on bloodsports v dissapointing yes, but good songs and singing imo - would like to the material live, which hopefully will happen since Suede are touring to back their UPCOMING ALBUM NIGHT THOUGHTS
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_Thoughts_%28album%29

I can't wait for this!